BOS/DAl/LAL/DET/WAS extravganza

[Mavrelous]

Premise:
Boston wants to duck the tax this year, Holiday and KP are the target dumps.
DAL needs a guard who can play with and w/o Kyrie, they want to use Klay and Hardy salary slots for it.
Gafford is expedable
LAL need centers, protect the rim and rebound, lots of smaller contract to break KPs deal.
WAS has TPE and MLe but no cap space, can eat a lot of average salaries.
DET need forwards and need spacing Fontechio os out of rotation.

BOS trade: KP, #28, Holiday, Hauser, 2 future 2nds
BOS get: Marcus Smart, Kleber (or Fonttechio)
BOS duck tax, start repeater reset, get Smart and Kleber to fill for KP/Holiday for the year until Tatum is back.
They will stay borderline PO team
Smart/Pritchard
White
Brown
Kleber or Fonttechio
Horford/Kornet

DAL trade: Klay, Hardy, Gafford, OMax
DAL get: Holiday, Sasser
Dallas create space under the Apron, add a guard who can play with and instead of Irving
Gafford extra value is used to bridge the gap between Klay/Hardy and Jrue

Holiday/Williams/Sasser
Kyrie/Christie
Flagg/Martin
AD/PJ/Marshal
Lively

DET trade: Fonttechio + Sasser + 2 future 2nds
DET receive: Hachimura and Hauser (into TPE)

Pistons add shooting forwards with size and 40%+ from 3, both are young and fit the timeline.
Hauser can gonto UTA if DET doesn't want him, but he's a good fit.

LAL trade: Hachimura, Vincenct, Kleber, Milton, future 2nd
LAL receive: KP, Gafford
LAL get 2 different centers, gamble on Luka/KP 2nd stint, give up Hachimura and Vincent.
KP is priced as negative value, Hachimura for Gafford is roughly equal.

KP/Gafford
LeBron/DFS
Vando
Luka/Knecht
Reaves


WAS trade: Smart
WAS receive: Fintechio (into TPE), Vincent + Milton into MLE, Klay, Hardy, OMax, BOS 25 1st + 5 future 2nds

Eat salary for a 1st + 5 future 2nds, give Hardy and OMax a look.

[aim2please]

How many terrible Boston deals are people gonna suggest? They need to cut less than 20M to go under 2nd apron. Why are they sending out 70+M in salary out, giving up picks AND taking dead money back?

Hauser is a low end starter on a value deal, team like Orlando would give up late 1st for him, yet people are throwing him in deals like he's a filler.

Most likely scenario for Boston is to trade Porzingis and take cca 10M back. Holiday, Hauser, Brown etc. are not gonna be salary dumped. If they're traded Boston is gonna get value back.

I don't know what team wants to take a flier on Zingis, but something like Porzingis + 28 for Clarkson. Porzingis for Josh Green, 3rd team takes on Nurkic and gets 28 for it. I'm using Utah and Charlotte only as an example, but these type of deals give Boston financial flexibility. Not nuking their whole team for 'financial reasons'.

[Mavrelous]

How many terrible Boston deals are people gonna suggest? They need to cut less than 20M to go under 2nd apron. Why are they sending out 70+M in salary out, giving up picks AND taking dead money back?

I disagree, if they aren't competing they will want to reset releater tax, not just 2nd Apron.
Jrue will be 36 at the start of 26/27 season, the time tonget out of his deal if you don't need him next year is now.
KP hasn't had a healthy PO in his career and he's expiring.
This deal:
1. Drops them below tax
2. Gets them back expiring that can be used.
3. Doesn't require any future 1st round capital.

Feel free to disagree...

[cl2117]

I just can't imagine the C's go for this but I guess it really comes down to how negative value you've got KP and Jrue.

I've got KP as being closer to positive value than negative because he's an expiring. Yes he's absolutely a liability in terms of health but he's also 20/7 on 60% TS with rim protection when he's healthy. Difficult scale to balance but when your commitment is only 1 year, I don't see him as negative value as opposed to a high risk/high reward dice roll.

Jrue's contract puts him in negative value territory but I still see certain teams willing to roll the dice on him at the cost of expirings (Mavs and Lakers being my most likely candidates).

So from a C's perspective I'd aim to break the deals down separately and look to land back expirings that could be cheap to move later or have the potential to be flipped and in separate deals work my way down below the tax (possibly even getting the team taking KP/Jrue to pay towards that as well). Feels like here you pay a premium to do it all at once and lose value along the way.

[Larry_Russell]

Why not just keep things far simpler and do

Jrue to Dallas
Gafford and Washington to Boston
Hardy, Sam Hauser, Tillman and a pick from Boston to Brooklyn (separate deal)

That way Boston saves enough payroll to get below the 2nd apron and opens things up for a Brown trade to be made easier.
Dallas gets the perfect guy for their team
Nets add a couple nice cost controlled players


Jrue
Irving
Marshall or Klay
Flagg
Davis

Pritchard
White
Brown
Washington
Porzingis/Gafford

[Mavrelous]

Why not just keep things far simpler and do

Jrue to Dallas
Gafford and Washington to Boston
Hardy, Sam Hauser, Tillman and a pick from Boston to Brooklyn (separate deal)

That way Boston saves enough payroll to get below the 2nd apron and opens things up for a Brown trade to be made easier.
Dallas gets the perfect guy for their team
Nets add a couple nice cost controlled players


Jrue
Irving
Marshall or Klay
Flagg
Davis

Pritchard
White
Brown
Washington
Porzingis/Gafford

PJ is too valuable to be in a salary dump.

[Texas Chuck]

I like Jrue but he can't be worth PJ and Gafford at this point. Not with that contract. Plus Dallas absolutely needs to keep one of them or replace one of them and that gets much harder after this trade because of the size of Jrue's deal.

But even worse is not only do they need to backfill a big, they still don't have the offensive juice they need to tide them over to Kyrie and now that's much harder too.

Any Jrue trade pretty much has to include Klay Thompson in the matching. And save back one of the bigs.

[Mavrelous]

I just can't imagine the C's go for this but I guess it really comes down to how negative value you've got KP and Jrue.

I've got KP as being closer to positive value than negative because he's an expiring. Yes he's absolutely a liability in terms of health but he's also 20/7 on 60% TS with rim protection when he's healthy. Difficult scale to balance but when your commitment is only 1 year, I don't see him as negative value as opposed to a high risk/high reward dice roll.

Jrue's contract puts him in negative value territory but I still see certain teams willing to roll the dice on him at the cost of expirings (Mavs and Lakers being my most likely candidates).

So from a C's perspective I'd aim to break the deals down separately and look to land back expirings that could be cheap to move later or have the potential to be flipped and in separate deals work my way down below the tax (possibly even getting the team taking KP/Jrue to pay towards that as well). Feels like here you pay a premium to do it all at once and lose value along the way.

He's a 30M player who can't be trusted to play in RS, and can be trusted to miss the PO, he's not a positive value player, the only thing that makes him tradable is the fact he's just expiring, Celtics will dump him and reset repeater tax if they can IMO, they can't support rolling over the repeater penalty on a non competitive team.
For Jrue, the backend of his deal is ugly, he's still a good contributor, you can toy with your luck and gamble on using him another year and dump him later, but you don't need him next year, and you'll be coming up at 28 and 29 where you don't control your draft capital, you'd want to rebuild a younger roster in 26 once Tatum is back when you still have draft flexibility.

[Larry_Russell]

I like Jrue but he can't be worth PJ and Gafford at this point. Not with that contract. Plus Dallas absolutely needs to keep one of them or replace one of them and that gets much harder after this trade because of the size of Jrue's deal.

But even worse is not only do they need to backfill a big, they still don't have the offensive juice they need to tide them over to Kyrie and now that's much harder too.

Any Jrue trade pretty much has to include Klay Thompson in the matching. And save back one of the bigs.

Thats fair.

I think Washington has more value to Boston as a replacement for Tatum (for now)

Klay, Gafford for Jrue works. Boston will just have to find deals with capspace teams to move guys like Hauser.


Or....

Dallas can have a scoring bigman in Kristaps.


Jrue and KP for
Gafford, Klay, Christie, Washington, Marshall.

lol

works almost $$ for $$

Dallas post trade:

Kyrie/Vetpg
Jrue/Hardy
Flagg/Martin
Davis/Prosper
Kristaps/Lively

Celtics post trade: (gunning for the number 1 pick)

White/Pritchard/
Thompson/Christie
Brown/Schierman
Washington/Marshall
Gafford/Queta

[Texas Chuck]

That's an interesting Dallas team for sure.

Though if Boston is going to tank, they should flip Gafford/Washington for other expiring money and some future draft capital. PJ should return a first and Gafford multiple 2nds.

[Larry_Russell]

That's an interesting Dallas team for sure.

Though if Boston is going to tank, they should flip Gafford/Washington for other expiring money and some future draft capital. PJ should return a first and Gafford multiple 2nds.

I was kind of goofing around when I started typing it out, but then the more I did the more I liked it. '

Team is full of unicorns, imo.

[cl2117]

I just can't imagine the C's go for this but I guess it really comes down to how negative value you've got KP and Jrue.

I've got KP as being closer to positive value than negative because he's an expiring. Yes he's absolutely a liability in terms of health but he's also 20/7 on 60% TS with rim protection when he's healthy. Difficult scale to balance but when your commitment is only 1 year, I don't see him as negative value as opposed to a high risk/high reward dice roll.

Jrue's contract puts him in negative value territory but I still see certain teams willing to roll the dice on him at the cost of expirings (Mavs and Lakers being my most likely candidates).

So from a C's perspective I'd aim to break the deals down separately and look to land back expirings that could be cheap to move later or have the potential to be flipped and in separate deals work my way down below the tax (possibly even getting the team taking KP/Jrue to pay towards that as well). Feels like here you pay a premium to do it all at once and lose value along the way.

He's a 30M player who can't be trusted to play in RS, and can be trusted to miss the PO, he's not a positive value player, the only thing that makes him tradable is the fact he's just expiring, Celtics will dump him and reset repeater tax if they can IMO, they can't support rolling over the repeater penalty on a non competitive team.

For Jrue, the backend of his deal is ugly, he's still a good contributor, you can toy with your luck and gamble on using him another year and dump him later, but you don't need him next year, and you'll be coming up at 28 and 29 where you don't control your draft capital, you'd want to rebuild a younger roster in 26 once Tatum is back when you still have draft flexibility.

With KP, when he's healthy he plays like a $30m player too though. So if the price is just to send back considerably less money to Boston, I think there will be teams that would rather the mercurial $30m player vs. the flotsam you have to send the other way to land him. Not every team, but if you're in one of the lower tiers of contenders and can get that talent for close to nothing, it's gotta be a tempting offer. Look at the C's, when healthy he made them virtually unbeatable, also out during both playoff runs (KP giveth and taketh away). It's obviously a gamble but you don't have to invest in longer-term money or assets, you just have to clear cap space. I think some GM's will take that bet.

For Jrue I'm right there with you. Without Tatum's injury I could see a world where they gambled and tried to ride him another year, but now that next year is a bit of a write-off he's got to go. They need to de-risk and get off the later years of that deal, which is why I think he's negative value on that contract. Even still though I think certain teams/GMs would take a gamble on him because of their current circumstances if the price is essentially just helping Boston clear space to duck the tax.

[Mavrelous]

With KP, when he's healthy he plays like a $30m player too though. So if the price is just to send back considerably less money to Boston, I think there will be teams that would rather the mercurial $30m player vs. the flotsam you have to send the other way to land him. Not every team, but if you're in one of the lower tiers of contenders and can get that talent for close to nothing, it's gotta be a tempting offer. Look at the C's, when healthy he made them virtually unbeatable, also out during both playoff runs (KP giveth and taketh away). It's obviously a gamble but you don't have to invest in longer-term money or assets, you just have to clear cap space. I think some GM's will take that bet.

KP was dumped for Dinwiddie and bad money because of repeated health problems, played a year on the Wizards, and then played 2 years on the Celtics averaged less than 50 games/yr and missed 90% of the PO.
Celtics won w/o him, he played a game and a half in the 1st round and a game and a half in the Finals...
The only way to dump him is to break his contract into small pieces and dump them.
If you think you can tolerate no reseting repeater tax, I'd say keep him and dump Jrue only, I just disagree, you're not winning next year, and you're better off resetting repeater tax, but KP isn't bringing any positive value.

[enzino]

Is BOS allowed to combine multiple players in one trade?

[Mavrelous]

Is BOS allowed to combine multiple players in one trade?

If after the trade they are below the 2nd Apron then yes, which is the case in this trade

[hugepatsfan]

How many terrible Boston deals are people gonna suggest? They need to cut less than 20M to go under 2nd apron. Why are they sending out 70+M in salary out, giving up picks AND taking dead money back?

Hauser is a low end starter on a value deal, team like Orlando would give up late 1st for him, yet people are throwing him in deals like he's a filler.

Most likely scenario for Boston is to trade Porzingis and take cca 10M back. Holiday, Hauser, Brown etc. are not gonna be salary dumped. If they're traded Boston is gonna get value back.

I don't know what team wants to take a flier on Zingis, but something like Porzingis + 28 for Clarkson. Porzingis for Josh Green, 3rd team takes on Nurkic and gets 28 for it. I'm using Utah and Charlotte only as an example, but these type of deals give Boston financial flexibility. Not nuking their whole team for 'financial reasons'.

Ducking the 2nd apron is good. Ducking the tax altogether to reset the repeater tax charges would be even better financially.

[vege]

This is great for Detroit. They would do this for sure.

[oldncreaky]

Why not just keep things far simpler and do

Jrue to Dallas
Gafford and Washington to Boston
Hardy, Sam Hauser, Tillman and a pick from Boston to Brooklyn (separate deal)

That way Boston saves enough payroll to get below the 2nd apron and opens things up for a Brown trade to be made easier.
Dallas gets the perfect guy for their team
Nets add a couple nice cost controlled players


Jrue
Irving
Marshall or Klay
Flagg
Davis

Pritchard
White
Brown
Washington
Porzingis/Gafford

You could probably find teams to take Hardy, Hauser and Tilman because all are affordable contracts for the production they provide, but . . . definitely not BRK.

BRK will make reaching the salary floor their first priority. They have to spend an extra $62M to reach the salary floor of approx $141M, and according to Spotrac unless they are able to move some of their (four!) FRPs, they've got no available roster spots to spend that money on.

Brooklyn's biggest problem this off-season is a lack of roster spots

[vege]

Mavrelous you have Detroit sending out 2 2nds, you have Boston sending out 2 2nds and you have the Lakers sending out a 2nd, but nobody on is getting any 2nds, so that made me confuse.

[Mavrelous]

Mavrelous you have Detroit sending out 2 2nds, you have Boston sending out 2 2nds and you have the Lakers sending out a 2nd, but nobody on is getting any 2nds, so that made me confuse.

WAS is getting them for eating slary