Ayton

[Blazers20]

If Ayton can get 20 shots per game at around 15 feet and closer could he score close to 25 ppg? He shoots about 60% from the field career wise. I’d like to see Ayton iso and post up on the block more. Could Chauncey bring in Ben and Rasheed Wallace to work with Ayton or could Ayton work with Olajuwon in the offseason like what Giannis has done in the past? How can Chauncey motivate Ayton? Ayton has average 16 ppg for his career on 12 shots per game, would getting more shots motivate him?

[Tim Lehrbach]

I'd love to see what he can do. On another team.

[BlazersBroncos]

Ayton is going into his age 27 season. He is who he is. A empty stats guy who lives off the most inefficient shot (middie), doesnt defend the rim and is a poor passer. He can finish above the rim well and is a very good rebounder (Especially defensively).

DC as a rookie had a far better positive impact in the minutes he played than Ayton did. Most teams want things from the C spot that Ayton simply doesnt bring (3PT floor spacing, shot blocking, nice FT rate).

His future in the league likely is a sort of jumbo Montrezl Harrell.

[oldfishermen]

Just my gut guess and idea.


As the #1 pick in the draft, Ayton feels slighted he has not been given the role of #1 option.

Give him a third and last chance. Experiment at the start of the season. Make Ayton the #1 ofensive option.

The worst that can happen is he turns into a monster, and builds his trade value. If not, let him walk.

[Wizenheimer]

so, last season, only 4 NBA players average 20 shots or more; and none were C's. Two of those were 1st team All-NBA; a 3rd was 2nd team; and the 4th was an all-star

Ayton averaged 11.7 shots. And the idea is to give him 8.3 more shots? Really? Does he take them from Avidija & Sharpe? Does he need to play 35 minutes a game leaving 8-10 minutes for Clingan? By the way, it doesn't matter how many shots, or how many points he averages, his trade value ain't going up. The NBA knows exactly what he is: a high usage Big who can't protect the rim; has little impact in the paint on defense; sets poor screens; can't pass from the post; and is locked into drop-coverage because of mobility issues. And, who has a history of attitude issues while obviously loafing at times during games

what Ayton is not is a big you want to invest more possessions in (or more guaranteed salary); what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made. He should have never been a Blazer. This what-to-do-about-Ayton rock/hard place dilemma was as predictable as rain in the winter

if it was up to me, I'd try to trade Ayton for a smaller expiring contract this summer; maybe get a 2nd round pick. If that's unsuccessful then offer to buy him out of his expiring deal and maybe save a couple million. If not, then waive him and hope for some cap-relief when/if he signs with another team. He wouldn't be a Blazer when nest season begins

[PDXKnight]

Yeah really bad idea. He can go be a black hole somewhere else

[BlazersBroncos]

what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made

Nothing comes close to being as bad as the Jerami Grant extension. The size but more than anything length of that deal is absurd. Very few guys get 30M+ AV deals at that length and are NOT even Top-3 options on a decent team.

Ayton might be a distant second, but at least he is gone soon. Or should be gone soon.

I actually think not getting an asset or even some SRP in the Powell / RoCo deal is worse than the Ayton move. Ayton would be 3rd worse move to me.

[Wizenheimer]

what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made

Nothing comes close to being as bad as the Jerami Grant extension. The size but more than anything length of that deal is absurd. Very few guys get 30M+ AV deals at that length and are NOT even Top-3 options on a decent team.

Ayton might be a distant second, but at least he is gone soon. Or should be gone soon.

I actually think not getting an asset or even some SRP in the Powell / RoCo deal is worse than the Ayton move. Ayton would be 3rd worse move to me.

according to this, the Blazers did get a 2nd round pick from the Clippers:

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=powell&Team=blazers&BeginDate=&EndDate=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

where it was traded, and for what, I don't know. That trade never bothered me one bit. To start with, I'm convinced the Vulcans were pushing Cronin to dump long-term salary, and that trade accomplished that. I also think there was a lot of momentum to simply start dismantling Olshey's idiotic rosters, especially Powell as a SF

I get saying Grant was a worse mistake. But he doesn't bother me as a player as much as Ayton. Besides that, the Grant contract is more a matter of degree. If it would have been, for example, a 4-year/100M deal, like Ant's, it would be more justifiable

maybe the post-trade process of Grant was a bigger mistake. Not trading for him as the Blazers acquired him pretty cheaply. But committing to re-sign him without a certainty that Dame would be around. Then re-signing him after Dame asked to be traded. And signing him for a max duration 5-year deal. And if the rumors of Cronin demanding two 1st round picks for Grant are true, and there were enough rumors to suspect it was somewhat close to true, that would have just added to the string of mistakes

I suppose you could argue that the biggest mistake was entering this last season with all of Simons-Ayton-Grant-Timelord on the roster. Compounding the mistake was that all three of Simons-Ayton-Grant started every game they played and for a good chunk of the season that made Scoot-Sharpe-Clingan bench players

[Walton1one]

Ayton taking a ton of shots\high usage is about as bad as an idea of Simons and Grant doing so...oh wait...yeah, the less shots those 3 take the better, more for the "actual" good players on this team, Deni & Camara and more for the young guys (Sharpe\Scoot\Clingan) to continue to develop

I don't think it is a coincidence that POR played well down the stretch with Deni\Camara\Sharpe leading the way, when Ayton, Grant and then Simons were all out of the rotation. Who knew that they could pick up that scoring load? Addition by Subtraction....

I did not go through all of the games, but towards the end of the year there were 3 games in which Deni\Camara\Sharpe all played, no Simons\Grant\Ayton...

They won all 3 games (DEN\TOR\ATL) and Deni\Toumani\Shaedon points scored during those 3 games:

DA - TC - SS
32 - 18 - 33
26 - 5 - 36
36 - 16 - 23

[zzaj]

what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made

Nothing comes close to being as bad as the Jerami Grant extension. The size but more than anything length of that deal is absurd. Very few guys get 30M+ AV deals at that length and are NOT even Top-3 options on a decent team.

Ayton might be a distant second, but at least he is gone soon. Or should be gone soon.

I actually think not getting an asset or even some SRP in the Powell / RoCo deal is worse than the Ayton move. Ayton would be 3rd worse move to me.

...I suppose you could argue that the biggest mistake was entering this last season with all of Simons-Ayton-Grant-Timelord on the roster. Compounding the mistake was that all three of Simons-Ayton-Grant started every game they played and for a good chunk of the season that made Scoot-Sharpe-Clingan bench players

This.

[Wizenheimer]

Ayton taking a ton of shots\high usage is about as bad as an idea of Simons and Grant doing so...oh wait...yeah, the less shots those 3 take the better, more for the "actual" good players on this team, Deni & Camara and more for the young guys (Sharpe\Scoot\Clingan) to continue to develop

I don't think it is a coincidence that POR played well down the stretch with Deni\Camara\Sharpe leading the way, when Ayton, Grant and then Simons were all out of the rotation. Who knew that they could pick up that scoring load? Addition by Subtraction....

I did not go through all of the games, but towards the end of the year there were 3 games in which Deni\Camara\Sharpe all played, no Simons\Grant\Ayton...

They won all 3 games (DEN\TOR\ATL) and Deni\Toumani\Shaedon points scored during those 3 games:

DA - TC - SS
32 - 18 - 33
26 - 5 - 36
36 - 16 - 23

this was the first season that Portland tried to win instead of tank. It's kind of a small sample size, but the Blazers were 8-4 (.667) without Simons; so they were 28-42 (.389) with him. Again...small sample size but I'd say there might be a pretty big reveal in those numbers

[Blaze the Nugz]

Two years ago I would have been open to the idea of force feeding Ayton to see what he can do in a featured role. But knowing what we know now, this idea is completely nonsensical.

[PDXKnight]

what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made

Nothing comes close to being as bad as the Jerami Grant extension. The size but more than anything length of that deal is absurd. Very few guys get 30M+ AV deals at that length and are NOT even Top-3 options on a decent team.

Ayton might be a distant second, but at least he is gone soon. Or should be gone soon.

I actually think not getting an asset or even some SRP in the Powell / RoCo deal is worse than the Ayton move. Ayton would be 3rd worse move to me.

according to this, the Blazers did get a 2nd round pick from the Clippers:

https://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=powell&Team=blazers&BeginDate=&EndDate=&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&Submit=Search

where it was traded, and for what, I don't know. That trade never bothered me one bit. To start with, I'm convinced the Vulcans were pushing Cronin to dump long-term salary, and that trade accomplished that. I also think there was a lot of momentum to simply start dismantling Olshey's idiotic rosters, especially Powell as a SF

I get saying Grant was a worse mistake. But he doesn't bother me as a player as much as Ayton. Besides that, the Grant contract is more a matter of degree. If it would have been, for example, a 4-year/100M deal, like Ant's, it would be more justifiable

maybe the post-trade process of Grant was a bigger mistake. Not trading for him as the Blazers acquired him pretty cheaply. But committing to re-sign him without a certainty that Dame would be around. Then re-signing him after Dame asked to be traded. And signing him for a max duration 5-year deal. And if the rumors of Cronin demanding two 1st round picks for Grant are true, and there were enough rumors to suspect it was somewhat close to true, that would have just added to the string of mistakes

I suppose you could argue that the biggest mistake was entering this last season with all of Simons-Ayton-Grant-Timelord on the roster. Compounding the mistake was that all three of Simons-Ayton-Grant started every game they played and for a good chunk of the season that made Scoot-Sharpe-Clingan bench players

We have toumani because of the ayton deal so in that respect I dont think it was a mistake. Also we dumped 1 season longer with Nassir Little at 7 mil.

That said yes 35 million for ayton is a ton, definitely a blunder for the suns to pay that

[oldfishermen]

Warning, when I finish my chores, I'll be back to have a friendly debate about Ayton, and play devils advocate.

For the most part, I agree with the conclusions the majority have voted on. But, believe there are overlooked issues and faulty assumptions being made to get there.

In business, always keep your options open. Hint, the Blazers are for sale. Ayton is an asset. As a former #1 draft pick, he can be viewed by a buyer as having some value to the purchase price.

[JasonStern]

I like Ayton.
I just don't like Ayton on his contract. I swear, if he was on a MLE contract, everyone here would love him. Stints of excellent play offset by infuriating play causing Suns fans to laugh at us for taking him on. Reminds me more of Whiteside. Empty stat big man that was loved until he got paid.
But I make the same argument for Simons. MLE Simons playing a shorter Jamal Crawford role is a loved player. Pay him 150%+ of the MLE, and you have to start questioning what the team is doing.
If a win-now team thinks Ayton or Simons pushes them over the hump, and a trade makes sense that doesn't ruin next off-season's free cap space and hopefully brings at least a little draft capital back, then sure. But there's value in letting them ride out their contract years, and if a reasonable deal cannot be made, just letting them walk.
Grant, though. That's what limits Portland's flexibility next off-season. If he could be traded for a dead cap expiring, you take that deal. Maybe even throw in a 2nd round pick to get a deal done. Like the guy, but doesn't fit the timeline and hinders what moves can be made next off-season.

[elias808]

Additionally, Ayton isn’t particularly durable. Over his 7 year career he’s averaged just under 57 regular season games played per season; a below leave average mark.

[DaVoiceMaster]

Ayton was playing well before he was injured (eye test). The Blazers need a second center so I'm okay keeping Ayton unless someone comes along. It sure won't be RW3 and Reath should remain a 3rd option.

[oldfishermen]

First, a correction.

Featuring Ayton to build his trade value was a poor choice of words. Ayton the player is tradeable, his contract is not. Maybe at the trade deadline he can be moved, if, a playoff team has injuries. Proven all-star players with large contracts may get traded. But, the new CBA will make it very difficult to trade role players with large contracts.

Now, for a couple of counter points.

For last season, and 30.8 mpg, Ayton averaged 14.4 point per game, and, 10.2 rebounds per game. Ayton was the only Blazer to average a double double for the entire season.

Ref: efficiency
Ayton's season player efficiency rating (per) was 17.7. The same as Deni's. Not a perfect metric, but one worth consideration.

Yes Ayton has big holes in his game, all of the Blazers do, except Deni. But Ayton plays below his talent level, too much of the time. My thought is, give Ayton one last chance to prove he was worth the #1 pick.

[m0ng0]

what he is is probably the worst mistake the Cronin/Kolde hybrid has made

Nothing comes close to being as bad as the Jerami Grant extension. .

Winner right here

[Sinobas]

If Ayton can get 20 shots per game at around 15 feet and closer could he score close to 25 ppg? He shoots about 60% from the field career wise. I’d like to see Ayton iso and post up on the block more. Could Chauncey bring in Ben and Rasheed Wallace to work with Ayton or could Ayton work with Olajuwon in the offseason like what Giannis has done in the past? How can Chauncey motivate Ayton? Ayton has average 16 ppg for his career on 12 shots per game, would getting more shots motivate him?

I mean, you can extrapolate it based on last year's figures, but his shooting percentage would go down if he were forcing up a lot of mid range jumpers.

Ayton is actually a very good mid range shooter, but the mid range shot is relatively inefficient.