2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[SUPERBALLMAN]

NBA COMBINE INTERVIEWS…

Watch on YouTube

[Northwest Roddy]

Forget a HOF thread. We need a thread for REALGM LEGENDS, sort of like a Mount Rushmore, or the Vietnam Memorial Wall if you prefer gallows humor.

Hands11
WizDynasty
Pineappleheadindc
Fishercob
TSW

I’m sure I’m missing more…

Still Droppin 20 was my favorite.

[closg00]

In this scenario, we get Johnson, but it's kind of a wacky mock from ESPN
https://www.youtube.com/watch

[dobrojim]

Lotta nerve droppin' out I'd say.....

From what I remember, there were some legit reasons.

[doclinkin]

Forget a HOF thread. We need a thread for REALGM LEGENDS, sort of like a Mount Rushmore, or the Vietnam Memorial Wall if you prefer gallows humor.

Hands11
WizDynasty
Pineappleheadindc
Fishercob
TSW

I’m sure I’m missing more…

Still Droppin 20 was my favorite.

Induveca
Barelyawake
Hoopalotta

I always like when Ed Wood pops back in.

Scabs/moto disciple of Laron Profit.

[payitforward]

Watch on YouTube

Starting at 28:00 minute mark...

Best shooter in the draft?

Kon Knueppel


Highest defensive upside?

Khaman Maluach


Biggest red flag in the draft?

Derik Queen

"if he finds that extra gear with his motor and his conditioning, the guy's an All-Star, like there's no doubt about it..."


The non-lottery pick most likely to end up the best player in the class?

"I'm intrigued with Carter Bryant... I mean just the tools, and the defensive versatility, and the feel for the game, and the shooting, the body, the character... Everybody's looking for that player in today's NBA..."

This is a must watch! Do not miss.

[Dark Faze]

For me personally it's either Fears or Queen.

Fears reminds me of a weird combination of Wall and Irving. Wall's speed but not his passing. Irvings handle but not his jumpshot. Not sure what that ultimately gets you, but I like it.

Queen has a lot of flaws but I just see it with the eye test much like Sengun and I'm just like "yea, he's him".

Tre Johnson is the good shooting 3 and D wing that comes along every draft really and you don't really know what to peg him as. Maybe you get lucky and he's Trey Murphy. Or maybe he's kind of mid in a Deandre Hunter kind of way, or worse. In either case I can't take such a prospect over Fears. I do realize my interest in Queen is probably a minority opinion.

[Frichuela]

For me personally it's either Fears or Queen.

Fears reminds me of a weird combination of Wall and Irving. Wall's speed but not his passing. Irvings handle but not his jumpshot. Not sure what that ultimately gets you, but I like it.

Queen has a lot of flaws but I just see it with the eye test much like Sengun and I'm just like "yea, he's him".

Tre Johnson is the good shooting 3 and D wing that comes along every draft really and you don't really know what to peg him as. Maybe you get lucky and he's Trey Murphy. Or maybe he's kind of mid in a Deandre Hunter kind of way, or worse. In either case I can't take such a prospect over Fears. I do realize my interest in Queen is probably a minority opinion.

On Queen, no doubt his agility and athletic performance at the combine was putrid. Having said that, how would a Jokic, Sengun or Sabonis fare? With Queen, it's obvious, are Dawkins & co convinced they can change his body and attitude to fitness? Is Queen willing to do the hard graft in this area?

[daoneandonly]

Watch on YouTube

Starting at 28:00 minute mark...

Best shooter in the draft?

Kon Knueppel


Highest defensive upside?

Khaman Maluach


Biggest red flag in the draft?

Derik Queen

"if he finds that extra gear with his motor and his conditioning, the guy's an All-Star, like there's no doubt about it..."


The non-lottery pick most likely to end up the best player in the class?

"I'm intrigued with Carter Bryant... I mean just the tools, and the defensive versatility, and the feel for the game, and the shooting, the body, the character... Everybody's looking for that player in today's NBA..."

This is a must watch! Do not miss.

That guy, no matter how knowledgeable, has no place on TV. He's so boring and robotic. I remember it on ESPN last year, and this interview shows he hasnt grown whatsoever in that area

[willbcocks]

Any chance Traore plays himself to #6 before the draft? I remember before the year hoping we'd end the year with him; what would he have to show to to make up for the poor start? Or is Bub too similar that it's not worth it?

[dckingsfan]

“That could be different. I could tell you it wouldn’t be the same.” Is almost a Yogi Berraism.

Quote of the combine. He has moved up my draft board... the quote & the measurements. So about that foot...

[pcbothwel]

Any chance Traore plays himself to #6 before the draft? I remember before the year hoping we'd end the year with him; what would he have to show to to make up for the poor start? Or is Bub too similar that it's not worth it?

I have Tony Parker as a comp for Traore, so I would happily take him in the top 10. That said, I would feel much better if we dropped down and garnered another asset in doing so.
Send 6 => Brooklyn for 8 & 26.
8: Traore
18: Bryant, Essengue, Beringer, Sorber, Wolf, Lendeborg, Fleming
26: Clayton, Hugo, Miles Byrd
40: Thiero, Powell, Coward, Penda, Toohey

[dckingsfan]

Any chance Traore plays himself to #6 before the draft? I remember before the year hoping we'd end the year with him; what would he have to show to to make up for the poor start? Or is Bub too similar that it's not worth it?

I have Tony Parker as a comp for Traore, so I would happily take him in the top 10. That said, I would feel much better if we dropped down and garnered another asset in doing so.
Send 6 => Brooklyn for 8 & 26.
8: Traore
18: Bryant, Essengue, Beringer, Sorber, Wolf, Lendeborg, Fleming
26: Clayton, Hugo, Miles Byrd
40: Thiero, Powell, Coward, Penda, Toohey

Question: is there someone that Brooklyn would be targeting for #6? It seems like with only 9 on the payroll they are looking forward to bringing in 4 new rookies.

Maybe a team like OKC? 15, 24 & 44?

[closg00]

For me personally it's either Fears or Queen.

Fears reminds me of a weird combination of Wall and Irving. Wall's speed but not his passing. Irvings handle but not his jumpshot. Not sure what that ultimately gets you, but I like it.

Queen has a lot of flaws but I just see it with the eye test much like Sengun and I'm just like "yea, he's him".

Tre Johnson is the good shooting 3 and D wing that comes along every draft really and you don't really know what to peg him as. Maybe you get lucky and he's Trey Murphy. Or maybe he's kind of mid in a Deandre Hunter kind of way, or worse. In either case I can't take such a prospect over Fears. I do realize my interest in Queen is probably a minority opinion.

Fears could be the last line of defense to draft one of the potential stars in this class, so I leaning towards him assuming the other consensus Top-5 picks are gone. I am also tempted to do a Queen/Maluach and Walter Clayton Jr or Tahaad Pettiford draft, Tahaad may be as-good a prospect as Fears. Queen is a helluva risk, but he could also become a dominant low-post player in 3-4 years depending on how his body develops.

[The Consiglieri]

Some of y’all ain’t gonna like this...but there's a lot of truth in what's written here.

Read the full article at the link below

Take a deep breath: Things aren’t as bleak for the Wizards as it seems
The Wizards’ NBA Draft Lottery drop is disappointing but far from a disaster.
By Ben Becker

The Washington Wizards dropping to sixth in the 2025 NBA Draft lottery wasn’t the outcome fans were hoping for. With the second-best odds, dreams of landing Cooper Flagg or even Dylan Harper were real. So yeah, the immediate sting was understandable.

But the reactions that followed — full-on despair, talk of curses, existential dread — have felt downright histrionic.

Wizards fans carry scars from the decades of #SoWizards ineptitude that trained them to see the world with a jaundiced eye. But this isn’t the same old Wizards. The arrival of Michael Winger, Will Dawkins, and their management team finally marked a new era with a true rebuild — one rooted in competitive ambition, patience, and discipline.

The outrage over landing the sixth pick ignores the math. The Wizards had just a 14% chance at the No. 1 pick, and about a 1-in-4 shot at the top two. In contrast, they had a 47% chance of landing either five or six — essentially coin flip probability. Sixth specifically was their second-most likely outcome (20%), behind only fifth (27%).

It’s a bummer, it’s not some cosmic injustice. It’s just how the NBA lottery works as it’s currently structured. If you’re playing the odds, you prepare for this and you build anyway.

Fans treat the top of the draft like it’s the only place to find stars, but the current NBA playoffs paint a far different picture. Take a look at the final eight teams in these playoffs. Among the 24 top-three players on those rosters, only seven were drafted in the top five: Jason Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Anthony Edwards, Karl-Anthony Towns, Chet Holmgren, Aaron Gordon, and Evan Mobley. And only two of those teams (Boston and Minnesota) have a clear number one option who was a top-five pick.

Now look at these players likely to make All-NBA this year: Nikola Jokic (41st), Giannis Antentokounpo (15th), Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (11th), Donovan Mitchell (13th), Jalen Brunson (33rd), Alperen Şengün (16th), Jalen Williams (12th).

The lesson? Star talent can be found in every tier of the draft if you know how to look — and the Wizards leadership has shown that they do.

https://www.bulletsforever.com/2025/5/14/24430388/washington-wizards-nba-draft-lottery-analysis

None of the argument is new, and most of it is bull----.

Point #1:
No kidding, and that's why I was one of like 3 people around here incensed that Bub made that miracle shot. The shot meant the 48% chance of picking 5th was then split, unevenly, between slot 5 and 6, giving us a 1 in 5 chance of getting screwed. No ---- our odds of landing 1, or 2, were always ----, anyone who even looked at the tankathon odds page once in the past year would have seen that. The screaming and crying of people that couldn't be bothered to look is worth being ignored, the screaming and crying of people who knew how costly that March/April run in which we climbed from 4-5 wins behind Utah, to finishing 1 ahead of them were on point, and tied to an understanding that historically, nearly every time we have finished top 3 worst in a loaded class, we have been dumped to the bottom of the possibility fall chart for the lottery (Shaq class, Webber class, Kidd class, did we get the Mavs luck in the Yao/LeBron drafts-HA HA HA, hell no, but Kwame, sure, come on down. Griffin class-nope, Anthony Davis class, nope Kyrie draft, hell now, we got to get that pick to Cleveland and on and on and on and some more: Zion/Morant, hell no, Ant draft, hell no, the top heavy '23, hell no, Wemby, no we miss by one lottery # etc ad infinitum.

Anyone paying attention knows 2 things:
#1 We had nearly as good odds of being 5-6, as being 1-4, calling into question why ownerships ever approved this bull---- (since it achieves neither of its professed objectives: curtailing tanking, and helping teams in dire straights)

#1B History says whatever team badly needs some unimaginable lottery luck in a top heavy draft can expect there's a good chance of it happening (there's been about 7-10 of these, depending upon classification in 40 years, including nearly always in the most obvious catastrophic situations (Knicks get Ewing, Orlando gets saved by Shaq and Penny, Cleveland gets saved by Lebron coming, gets rewarded when he leaves, and gets more goodies to lure him back, New Orleans gets goodies to reward ownership and to compensate for Davis departure, now the Mavs. As everyone knows there is a pile of 1 in 100 to 1 in 50 to 1 in 75 caliber hits going back four decades, far more than math would say is likely (possible, yes, but remotely likely, no). As we heard from Aldridge, in essentially every singled loaded transformative class we've gotten smacked down the max or close to the max ('92, '93, '94, '02, '03, '09, '11, '12, '22, '23, '25 etc).

The reason for the frustration is totally understandable. If a loaded class comes along with 1-3 mega star prospects, you can bet that Shaq, Webber, Kidd, Yao, LeBron, Blake, Kyrie, Ant, the '23's, Wemby, and Flagg will not be remotely within sight lines, let alone falling in our lap in the lottery.

#3 This is just PIF's cherry picking paradise. Yes you can get stars anywhere in the draft, the problem is the hit rate for stars is exceedingly top heavy in drafts, the biggest of the big hit disproportionately from the top: for every Shaq, Hakeem, Jordan, Barkley, Wemby, Duncan, Webber, Penny, Kidd, LeBron, and Ant, yes there are occasional Jokic's, and Giannis' and SGA's, but when you look over the sample size, the chances of hitting on the big guys is far far far higher the higher up you are versus the lower you are, and generally, most of those hits like Jokic, like Giannis, are not about genius and prospecting so much as blind luck and randomness. You can't plan on luck or genius to get you by when you get hosed. You can only hope alone, and do due diligence.

#4 That's true, but Leonsis doesn't. There's no evidence historically in 25 years that he has much tolerance for tear down/rebuilds. He's eschewed it with the Caps, as the Ovy era aged out, and only blind luck with the draft (mega elite prospects falling in our lap) and some prescient trades (getting PLD, and our goalie for peanuts for instance) have saved us there, meanwhile with the wiz its been short cuts all the way through for DECADES. In fairness some of that was Pollin. But I don't know how much time the brain trust gets. If I knew they would get through '28, I'd be a lot more comfortable than I am.

#5 Meh, I expect them to do something, but sometimes you simply get nothing (Tyus, Brogdon) and sometimes you screw up badly (Kuzma) and only get saved by another teams stupidity (Milwaukee, Phoenix). You can't plan on other teams being idiots as a way to get out of getting thoroughly ----ed in the lottery.

#6 Agreed on '26, and some of us engaged in grief ridden caterwauling, have also said the one thing this did accomplish was better protect our '26 first from conveying, which would have been 2-3x more likely if we'd gotten 1 in 4 or 1 in 7 lucky, instead we got completely screwed which probably ramped up our liklihood of holding onto that pick by a good fat percentage. And yes, '26 is loaded, top 3 heavy, and top 4 kinda heavy, if the Suns implode, our chances will be a good chunk better than in '25.

#7 I don't know how much I agree w/this. Yes I agree w/the obvious, but depth aint moving the needle any, without transformative stars, I'd been arguing the same tired thing with Redskins fans who were fine with Sean Taylor over Rivers or Ben Roth in '04, over tanking for Luck in '12, over tanking for Burrow and Tua in '20 over Chase Young (whoops, can't get them all right), and on and on. In the NFL, doesn't matter how great your lines, or playmakers are if you don't have the franchise QB, only 1-2 teams per generational cycle (10-15 years) typically manage to build anything that can compete (Niners, Ravens, Bucs the past 25 years), and in all those cases, those teams nearly always fall short to teams similarly well built, that actually do have the franchise QB. Well, NBA is the same way. Doesn't matter if you have a good bench, and solid starters around your lineup, if you dont have 2-3 guys that can play at a mega elite level consistently. If you lack that mega elite talent, but your good, your just the Pistons of 20 years ago making a 1 and done run because the titans have just gone into decline, or even worse, you're the Pacers, and never even get that joy, you just get pummeled by teams who do have star, anytime you randomly luck as far as the conference title game (its not a coincidence that in the NFL, the Defense first, no QB having studly teams of the past that one a super bowl (or lost one) #1, typically only did it once, and #2 did it in years where the titans went into decline and the league was weak (this was true of the '00 Ravens, the '02 Bucs, and the '12 Ravens for instance).

The reality is: We do not matter, and Will Not matter, period, unless we land 2-3 mega stars, through the draft or some other means. No matter how many solid Bub's, and good defending Bilal's we've got, without stars, we will be just another 28-42 game winning after thought, just like we were for the vast majority of 1980-2023, when we weren't flat out cratering.

The article just seemed like a pile of truisms that everyone already knows, and a good chunk of nonsense to boot. Only thing I valued in the piece was underlying the brain trust, but even there he didn't seem to take into account that the misfortune of '24 (hitting rock bottom in time for one truly rare megastarless prospect class), and '25 (getting obliterated in the lottery), carries inherent risk that Leonsis will short circuit the rebuild if we lose the lottery again in '26, and fire these guys by '26-'27 due to the unrest of the always large percentage of moron fans that own season tickets and don't understand long term build strategies/have no patience for it.

[dckingsfan]

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

Ouch!

[The Consiglieri]

Count me in the trade up or trade down camp. If Tre falls, great. If Ace falls cool. Go up and get VJ if the cost isnt too crazy. See what San Antonio says since hes not a clean fit there. Would either SA or Washington consider swaping picks for Bilal? Or considering trading down for a future 1st.

In this draft, the difference between the talent at 6 and at 18 is negligible.

If the big 5 are gone (Flagg, Harper, VJ, Tre, Ace), then just punt on this pick and get as many future 1sts as you can. Use 18 to take best C available and tank harder next year with the pick in jeopardy due to it being top 8 protected. I posted a trade in the trade board of getting Orlando's Suns swap rights for 2026 in exchange for 6 (we get first swap rights assuming we keep the pick and then Orlando gets to swap their pick with the lesser of the Wiz & Suns). Next year's draft is going to be really good. Better to take two bites of the apple on that one.

We're on the same page. I'd trade out, up, or trade down with '26 goodies included if possible. We've got a lot of fans, however, and people in general, who'd fail the marshmallow test, and simply can't handle the idea of not using this pick because there's more value by packaging it for better luck in '26 and lesser assets now (or futures instead). Too many people want their toy (the #6 to keep, trade up, or trade down) and considering F.O.'s risk job security by pushing the assets further down the line, I imagine they will not do what I want. I would absolutely do so though (and the fact that they've acquired assets as far down the line as 2030 as a part of the build suggests at least some, long con thinking so to speak, rather than short term impatience like GMGM with the Caps a decade+ ago, or every GM we've pretty much ever had until these guys. Hopefully our owner shares said patience.

[The Consiglieri]

↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

Ouch!

I don't mean to trash an old poster I liked (Fishercobb) and posters who like the positive thinking of the piece, but I can't help but feel most of that article was a mix of the patently obvious, with a heaping of bull----, and several pounds of "cope" post heartbreak.

The reality was that it's a disaster, and like most fans, I think fishercobb is simply rationalizing away the pain, which is easy to do because this is just a game, and entertainment, and the reality is, life doesn't stop, and the wizards can't stop simply because we lost a lottery AGAIN, in a top heavy loaded class, we have to deal with the wreckage that implies, and the reality that there are little pots of gold here and there that could be discovered (but almost certainly won't be, in this draft anyway).

The sad reality is that 2024-2025 is almost certainly a missed opportunity in that we're getting a Guggs instead of Shaq, we're getting a Cheaney instead of Webber, we're getting a Howard instead of Jason Kidd, we're getting an Arvis Hayes and Jared Jeffries instead of Yao or LeBron, we're betting Beal instead of Davis, we're getting Mike Miller and Foye, instead of Curry, or Blake Griffin, Bilal instead of Wemby etc. There are hidden gems in a lot though not all drafts outside of that top, but the odds heavily, heavily, heavily say we got complimentary immaterial-ness, unless we hit on a star in an "ouch we gave up THAT SGA" trade, or the '26 class.

So yeah, the vast majority of that is cope mixed with obvious.

[pcbothwel]

Any chance Traore plays himself to #6 before the draft? I remember before the year hoping we'd end the year with him; what would he have to show to to make up for the poor start? Or is Bub too similar that it's not worth it?

I have Tony Parker as a comp for Traore, so I would happily take him in the top 10. That said, I would feel much better if we dropped down and garnered another asset in doing so.
Send 6 => Brooklyn for 8 & 26.
8: Traore
18: Bryant, Essengue, Beringer, Sorber, Wolf, Lendeborg, Fleming
26: Clayton, Hugo, Miles Byrd
40: Thiero, Powell, Coward, Penda, Toohey

Question: is there someone that Brooklyn would be targeting for #6? It seems like with only 9 on the payroll they are looking forward to bringing in 4 new rookies.

Maybe a team like OKC? 15, 24 & 44?

Ehhh. Not enough value.
- 2018: ATL got a top 5 protected 1st for moving from 3 => 5. (They took Reddish at #10 in 2019)
- 2008: Memphis got Prime Mike Miller to move back from 5 => 8. I mean prime, 27 y/o, 6-MOTY winner, 16/7/3 with 62% TS Mike Miller

If we trade down and miss out on Traore, Bryant, Essengue, Sorber, etc, then its poor value.

[dckingsfan]

I have Tony Parker as a comp for Traore, so I would happily take him in the top 10. That said, I would feel much better if we dropped down and garnered another asset in doing so.
Send 6 => Brooklyn for 8 & 26.
8: Traore
18: Bryant, Essengue, Beringer, Sorber, Wolf, Lendeborg, Fleming
26: Clayton, Hugo, Miles Byrd
40: Thiero, Powell, Coward, Penda, Toohey

Question: is there someone that Brooklyn would be targeting for #6? It seems like with only 9 on the payroll they are looking forward to bringing in 4 new rookies.

Maybe a team like OKC? 15, 24 & 44?

Ehhh. Not enough value.
- 2018: ATL got a top 5 protected 1st for moving from 3 => 5. (They took Reddish at #10 in 2019)
- 2008: Memphis got Prime Mike Miller to move back from 5 => 8. I mean prime, 27 y/o, 6-MOTY winner, 16/7/3 with 62% TS Mike Miller

If we trade down and miss out on Traore, Bryant, Essengue, Sorber, etc, then its poor value.

Gotcha. Don't see it then...