2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft

[Covi_Marsh]

Essentially your saying we don’t have the development coaches to have Bailey reach his ceiling but they are capable of giving VJ a little bit of creation that prep, national team and 20 yrs of play couldn’t or develop Tre to be a solid defender, or finish at the rim. They are all flawed projects who also will probably be 3&D wing, 3&D guard and 6th man unless development coaches develop.

The outrage of one prospect not developing but another will is wild. Scouts are looking at physical attributes and flashes of what the prospect could be. If you shown flashes of a great nba quality then their job is to bring that out of you consistently. That involves coaching and interviewing prospects to understand their mental. So I feel everyone is torn on taking a raw prospect and developing or taking a higher floor prospect to avoid bust potential.

Great, then you'll have no problem drafting Egor Demin or Will Riley at 3, the other two 6'10 players with guard skills, right? We have the development coaches to fill the holes in their games, so why should they be treated any differently than Ace Bailey?

If it's age, then Noa Essengue should be the pick since he's the same measurements but is even younger than Ace.

At 3 no because he can’t shoot so wouldn’t even be able to be a role 3&D early on. But in a Trade back absolutely

[Negrodamus]

Essentially your saying we don’t have the development coaches to have Bailey reach his ceiling but they are capable of giving VJ a little bit of creation that prep, national team and 20 yrs of play couldn’t or develop Tre to be a solid defender, or finish at the rim. They are all flawed projects who also will probably be 3&D wing, 3&D guard and 6th man unless development coaches develop.

The outrage of one prospect not developing but another will is wild. Scouts are looking at physical attributes and flashes of what the prospect could be. If you shown flashes of a great nba quality then their job is to bring that out of you consistently. That involves coaching and interviewing prospects to understand their mental. So I feel everyone is torn on taking a raw prospect and developing or taking a higher floor prospect to avoid bust potential.

Great, then you'll have no problem drafting Egor Demin or Will Riley at 3, the other two 6'10 players with guard skills, right? We have the development coaches to fill the holes in their games, so why should they be treated any differently than Ace Bailey?

If it's age, then Noa Essengue should be the pick since he's the same measurements but is even younger than Ace.

At 3 no because he can’t shoot so wouldn’t even be able to be a role 3&D early on. But in a Trade back absolutely

What would suggest any of these guys can't shoot? Or better yet, what would suggest they couldn't improve substantially from coaching? All seem to have good forms.

[FireMorey]

I tend to agree, we should end up with one of Tre, VJ, or Ace (with Morey's blessing). But what do I know? (nothing)

Worst case scenario for me is Morey trades down and doesn't take Tre. Trading down for Knueppel or something and passing on Tre would be a disaster. I'd be pretty confident Morey is going to be interested in Bailey and Edgecombe. I have no idea if Tre will be his cup of tea or not. I'd like to think so because of his shooting and scoring. Morey has liked guys like that in the past. But there are some people who are down on Tre and it's just a matter of if Morey is one of those guys.

[Covi_Marsh]

Great, then you'll have no problem drafting Egor Demin or Will Riley at 3, the other two 6'10 players with guard skills, right? We have the development coaches to fill the holes in their games, so why should they be treated any differently than Ace Bailey?

If it's age, then Noa Essengue should be the pick since he's the same measurements but is even younger than Ace.

At 3 no because he can’t shoot so wouldn’t even be able to be a role 3&D early on. But in a Trade back absolutely

What would suggest any of these guys can't shoot? Or better yet, what would suggest they couldn't improve substantially from coaching? All seem to have good forms.

I would say the fact the ball doesn’t go in lol. But also he didn’t take many which suggests he doesn’t trust the shot either. But id move back and take him because the mechanics look good so I can see a path of the shot being good as well as improving the dribble and footwork But that is more risk since he’s further behind the other 18 yr old. and I as you know I’m for Bailey so why would I take a raw high potential guy over one I feel can be a star and is further ahead? I’d move back, collect assets and then draft him tho.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I tend to agree, we should end up with one of Tre, VJ, or Ace (with Morey's blessing). But what do I know? (nothing)

Worst case scenario for me is Morey trades down and doesn't take Tre. Trading down for Knueppel or something and passing on Tre would be a disaster. I'd be pretty confident Morey is going to be interested in Bailey and Edgecombe. I have no idea if Tre will be his cup of tea or not. I'd like to think so because of his shooting and scoring. Morey has liked guys like that in the past. But there are some people who are down on Tre and it's just a matter of if Morey is one of those guys.

I look at Johnson and see James Harden when he was at ASU. I could be totally off on that, but Harden came into the league with similar attributes and similar flaws. Johnson has been compared to D'Angelo Russell who was also once compared to James Harden. I'm saying that's best case scenario in a perfect world. In other words I think Morey will absolutely have interest in Johnson. I think Bailey and Johnson are two most "Morey like" players in this draft assuming Flagg and Harper are unavailable. It should be a two man race between Bailey and Johnson and we will ultimately be picking between the two of them unless the Spurs surprise us by taking someone else. Edgecombe imo doesn't fit at all on this roster unless we are trading Maxey and not resigning Grimes. One could argue the same about Tre, but he's arguably the best shooter in the draft and the fact that he can handle and create speaks volumes in terms of upside.

[Negrodamus]

At 3 no because he can’t shoot so wouldn’t even be able to be a role 3&D early on. But in a Trade back absolutely

What would suggest any of these guys can't shoot? Or better yet, what would suggest they couldn't improve substantially from coaching? All seem to have good forms.

I would say the fact the ball doesn’t go in lol. But also he didn’t take many which suggests he doesn’t trust the shot either. But id move back and take him because the mechanics look good so I can see a path of the shot being good as well as improving the dribble and footwork But that is more risk since he’s further behind the other 18 yr old. and I as you know I’m for Bailey so why would I take a raw high potential guy over one I feel can be a star and is further ahead? I’d move back, collect assets and then draft him tho.

I ask because I have provided plenty of resources as to why Ace was horribly inefficient as a scorer and non-existent facilitator and the argument against that is "he'll figure it out with coaching, he's young".

Meanwhile, the aforementioned guys, who all have a better foul drawing presence and 2 of which have substantially better distribution capabilities, simply cannot figure out how to be better shooters.

I'm willing to have a quantifiable argument regarding Ace, but just trusting his hype coming into college and getting enamored with only highlights while ignoring his plentiful lowlights is just something I'm not interested in doing.

[Black Mage]

Demin was so atrocious this year and I kept giving him chances every month. Nothing improved.

Dont overthink it

Watch on YouTube

Egor should be sponsored by Buffalo Wild Wings with that chicken wing push off that he's NEVER going to win with or get away with in the pros.

[Covi_Marsh]

I tend to agree, we should end up with one of Tre, VJ, or Ace (with Morey's blessing). But what do I know? (nothing)

Worst case scenario for me is Morey trades down and doesn't take Tre. Trading down for Knueppel or something and passing on Tre would be a disaster. I'd be pretty confident Morey is going to be interested in Bailey and Edgecombe. I have no idea if Tre will be his cup of tea or not. I'd like to think so because of his shooting and scoring. Morey has liked guys like that in the past. But there are some people who are down on Tre and it's just a matter of if Morey is one of those guys.

I look at Johnson and see James Harden when he was at ASU. I could be totally off on that, but Harden came into the league with similar attributes and similar flaws. Johnson has been compared to D'Angelo Russell who was also once compared to James Harden. I'm saying that's best case scenario in a perfect world. In other words I think Morey will absolutely have interest in Johnson. I think Bailey and Johnson are two most "Morey like" players in this draft assuming Flagg and Harper are unavailable. It should be a two man race between Bailey and Johnson and we will ultimately be picking between the two of them unless the Spurs surprise us by taking someone else. Edgecombe imo doesn't fit at all on this roster unless we are trading Maxey and not resigning Grimes. One could argue the same about Tre, but he's arguably the best shooter in the draft and the fact that he can handle and create speaks volumes in terms of upside.

I agree with the DLo comp because of the lack of a quick first step. His creation is excellent and could improve. I think he has untapped potential in playmaking. Where he differs from Harden is Harden actually exhibited slashing, foul drawing in college that transferred over. I think nba spacing and learning how to flop helps with that lol. My biggest turnoff is the inability to guard him man at the college level. Haven’t seen any high school tape but I’m willing to look now to seen if he slash and play defense at that level.
But he for sure could be on Moreys radar if he believes he can finish at the rim and shoot 3s. Classic Morey ball.

[Negrodamus]

Read on Twitter

I'm so ready for this guy to drive me absolutely f***ing insane for the next 6 years.

[Mik317]

but thats the dawg energy we are lacking

so there

[Covi_Marsh]

What would suggest any of these guys can't shoot? Or better yet, what would suggest they couldn't improve substantially from coaching? All seem to have good forms.

I would say the fact the ball doesn’t go in lol. But also he didn’t take many which suggests he doesn’t trust the shot either. But id move back and take him because the mechanics look good so I can see a path of the shot being good as well as improving the dribble and footwork But that is more risk since he’s further behind the other 18 yr old. and I as you know I’m for Bailey so why would I take a raw high potential guy over one I feel can be a star and is further ahead? I’d move back, collect assets and then draft him tho.

I ask because I have provided plenty of resources as to why Ace was horribly inefficient as a scorer and non-existent facilitator and the argument against that is "he'll figure it out with coaching, he's young".

Meanwhile, the aforementioned guys, who all have a better foul drawing presence and 2 of which have substantially better distribution capabilities, simply cannot figure out how to be better shooters.

I'm willing to have a quantifiable argument regarding Ace, but just trusting his hype coming into college and getting enamored with only highlights while ignoring his plentiful lowlights is just something I'm not interested in doing.

Well for me I look past stats because I want to see flashes of you doing something. He didn’t finish much because he would revert to a midrange shot instead of attacking the rim but when he did attack he has an efficient FG% there. I’ve seen playmaking in high school tape, regressed at Rutgers since he took on a carry the team attitude which was bad. But I don’t see the inefficiency being because he physically is getting locked up by defenders. I see it as he’s trying to score but he is a focus point so the paint is clogged since the whole team couldn’t shoot besides him. So mid range and 3s are less traffic.

In his best games I’ve seen the flashes of what he could be. And as a franchise you decide was it a fluke vs bums or are those attributes he could build on in the NBA that will transfer over and make him a great player.

I havent watched too much film on VJ or Tre outside of highlights. I do want to look at film on Tre. I’m not too interested in VJ because of his measurements. A 6’5 guard is nice size but he hasn’t flashed the creation or doesn’t have the wingspan of an Ant DWade. Maybe I need to see some HS film to see some flashes but I don’t have him above Bailey or Tre. Certainly has the higher floor day 1 since he can defend, catch&shoot, and excellent in transition.

[the_process]

I would like another team to fall in love with Ace Bailey.

[Iverson Armband]

but thats the dawg energy we are lacking

so there

Yeah, we actually need this kind of energy on this team. Especially with Joel and PG still creeping around, if anybody is gonna stake his claim as the new sheriff in town, it seems to be this kid. Tre Johnson has some of this in him as well it seems and it’s quite refreshing.

[Covi_Marsh]

these sound bites are very cocky confident player but he is 18, probably doesn’t have much PR training, considering he didn’t take the prep school route. Sounds like he’s trying to sell himself. If he isn’t hardworking or isn’t coachable when we do our homework, he’ll come off our board. It is hilarious tho.

[Sixersftw]

I'm not gonna lie, that answer made me say... "well, maybe."

I'm ready to draft someone with Monta Ellis brain.

[Negrodamus]

I would say the fact the ball doesn’t go in lol. But also he didn’t take many which suggests he doesn’t trust the shot either. But id move back and take him because the mechanics look good so I can see a path of the shot being good as well as improving the dribble and footwork But that is more risk since he’s further behind the other 18 yr old. and I as you know I’m for Bailey so why would I take a raw high potential guy over one I feel can be a star and is further ahead? I’d move back, collect assets and then draft him tho.

I ask because I have provided plenty of resources as to why Ace was horribly inefficient as a scorer and non-existent facilitator and the argument against that is "he'll figure it out with coaching, he's young".

Meanwhile, the aforementioned guys, who all have a better foul drawing presence and 2 of which have substantially better distribution capabilities, simply cannot figure out how to be better shooters.

I'm willing to have a quantifiable argument regarding Ace, but just trusting his hype coming into college and getting enamored with only highlights while ignoring his plentiful lowlights is just something I'm not interested in doing.

Well for me I look past stats because I want to see flashes of you doing something. He didn’t finish much because he would revert to a midrange shot instead of attacking the rim but when he did attack he has an efficient FG% there. I’ve seen playmaking in high school tape, regressed at Rutgers since he took on a carry the team attitude which was bad. But I don’t see the inefficiency being because he physically is getting locked up by defenders. I see it as he’s trying to score but he is a focus point so the paint is clogged since the whole team couldn’t shoot besides him. So mid range and 3s are less traffic.

In his best games I’ve seen the flashes of what he could be. And as a franchise you decide was it a fluke vs bums or are those attributes he could build on in the NBA that will transfer over and make him a great player.

I havent watched too much film on VJ or Tre outside of highlights. I do want to look at film on Tre. I’m not too interested in VJ because of his measurements. A 6’5 guard is nice size but he hasn’t flashed the creation or doesn’t have the wingspan of an Ant DWade. Maybe I need to see some HS film to see some flashes but I don’t have him above Bailey or Tre. Certainly has the higher floor day 1 since he can defend, catch&shoot, and excellent in transition.

He finished OK at the rim, I think it was 61% which accounts for a terrible 15% of his shots. You'd like it to be higher for someone at that size and length. The problem I have is that players rarely become high volume drivers to the rim when they get to the pros. Same with them substantially raising their FTr. I get wanting to contextualize it with the Rutgers of it all, but he AND Harper (67.6% at the rim; .419 FTr btw. He cracked this unsolvable Rutgers code somehow) are not the only freshmen who went to a less-than-ideal team and had to figure out ways to score. So if you're a top 3 pick, you elevate your game.

[Stanford]

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[Black Mage]

but thats the dawg energy we are lacking

so there

Even a month out- I think our boards have nailed down these top 3 prospects available at 3. Really, the choice made by the team is likely going to be heavily influenced by what they turn up off the court in talking with coaches and one on one interviews with each prospect. In that regard, I absolutely trust Morey and their team after they identified Maxey and McCain as good culture setters and gym rats.

On side note; if Harper takes a tryout invite from Sixers that would blow my mind and suggest Harper isn't a lock at 2.

[Covi_Marsh]

I ask because I have provided plenty of resources as to why Ace was horribly inefficient as a scorer and non-existent facilitator and the argument against that is "he'll figure it out with coaching, he's young".

Meanwhile, the aforementioned guys, who all have a better foul drawing presence and 2 of which have substantially better distribution capabilities, simply cannot figure out how to be better shooters.

I'm willing to have a quantifiable argument regarding Ace, but just trusting his hype coming into college and getting enamored with only highlights while ignoring his plentiful lowlights is just something I'm not interested in doing.

Well for me I look past stats because I want to see flashes of you doing something. He didn’t finish much because he would revert to a midrange shot instead of attacking the rim but when he did attack he has an efficient FG% there. I’ve seen playmaking in high school tape, regressed at Rutgers since he took on a carry the team attitude which was bad. But I don’t see the inefficiency being because he physically is getting locked up by defenders. I see it as he’s trying to score but he is a focus point so the paint is clogged since the whole team couldn’t shoot besides him. So mid range and 3s are less traffic.

In his best games I’ve seen the flashes of what he could be. And as a franchise you decide was it a fluke vs bums or are those attributes he could build on in the NBA that will transfer over and make him a great player.

I havent watched too much film on VJ or Tre outside of highlights. I do want to look at film on Tre. I’m not too interested in VJ because of his measurements. A 6’5 guard is nice size but he hasn’t flashed the creation or doesn’t have the wingspan of an Ant DWade. Maybe I need to see some HS film to see some flashes but I don’t have him above Bailey or Tre. Certainly has the higher floor day 1 since he can defend, catch&shoot, and excellent in transition.

He finished OK at the rim, I think it was 61% which accounts for a terrible 15% of his shots. You'd like it to be higher for someone at that size and length. The problem I have is that players rarely become high volume drivers to the rim when they get to the pros. Same with them substantially raising their FTr. I get wanting to contextualize it with the Rutgers of it all, but he AND Harper (67.6% at the rim; .419 FTr btw. He cracked this unsolvable Rutgers code somehow) are not the only freshmen who went to a less-than-ideal team and had to figure out ways to score. So if you're a top 3 pick, you elevate your game.

I agree. Getting to the rim is what makes Harper special and we he fixes the low arch on his shot he is an all star at the very least. I’m hoping Spurs pass on him. But I will add that Harper at least had the threat of Bailey on the perimeter when he attacked to move at least one big body from the paint. But this is exactly why there’s a gap drop off after pick 2. So we are all trying to find a 3rd best player in a room of flawed players lol.

[Covi_Marsh]

but thats the dawg energy we are lacking

so there

Even a month out- I think our boards have nailed down these top 3 prospects available at 3. Really, the choice made by the team is likely going to be heavily influenced by what they turn up off the court in talking with coaches and one on one interviews with each prospect. In that regard, I absolutely trust Morey and their team after they identified Maxey and McCain as good culture setters and gym rats.

On side note; if Harper takes a tryout invite from Sixers that would blow my mind and suggest Harper isn't a lock at 2.

Well isn’t going 1. I don’t think Spurs would just tell him he’s lock for them so it would be in his best interest to work out with at least them and us because I’m sure we would tell him he not getting past 3.