Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10
Sinistar6 wrote:I would love demon demin to be there for us, although he seems like a spurs pick. He may be long gone. I see him with 4 position versatility and mixing with MB, giddy, ball, seems like it could be the most unselfish basketball ever. I also like the lineup changes with current bulls players giving them easy money.
DuckIII wrote:PJSteven22 wrote:HomoSapien wrote:Rasheer Fleming is pretty interesting on the defensive end. We really need a standout defender on this team. I wish we had taken the time to find out more about Jalen Smith. I can't tell if these two occupy too much of the same space (Fleming is more of a 4/5 and Smith is more of 5/4 but still).
Fleming has mobility issues. Which hurts him on the defensive end.
Are you thinking of someone else? Isn't that supposed to be one of his primary strengths?
BullsSD wrote:What happened to the 45th pick? I’m 99% sure we are indeed drafting in the second round this year lol._txchilibowl_ wrote:From the highlights I've seen Coward looks like a very beow the rim type of prospect. Would prefer more athleticism from the #12 pick.
He’s got fine hops (32.5 no-step vertical) and is an excellent shot blocker for his height. 7’2 wingspan and 8’10 standing reach. He’s a SG/SF. Half the league’s SG’s don’t play “above the rim.” What IS impressive, is his post work. He can post up other guards and own them with his length. Matchup nightmares.PJSteven22 wrote:HomoSapien wrote:Rasheer Fleming is pretty interesting on the defensive end. We really need a standout defender on this team. I wish we had taken the time to find out more about Jalen Smith. I can't tell if these two occupy too much of the same space (Fleming is more of a 4/5 and Smith is more of 5/4 but still).
Fleming has mobility issues. Which hurts him on the defensive end.
What??? Fleming has great mobility! He had the best shuttle run time in the entire combine ant 2.72 until someone else broke the all time record later in the day (forget who). He’s great lateral and has a 9’1 standing reach. As far as fit, I think he works better with Collins, but don’t see why he and Smith couldn’t coexist if one is occupying the block.
tunit213 wrote:This is our guy. Put him next to Matas and now we are cooking!
https://youtu.be/KTAF6itf8rc?si=ihRTciIjS6nxHZfP
DuckIII wrote:You can’t look at what happened with Pat and refuse to take a guy with a somewhat similar profile (though here they really aren’t similar guys anyway). Every player is an individual human being.
Looks like Pat might even completely bust out of the rotation altogether. If he does it’s not because of the player he is, it’s because of the person he is.
Guru wrote:Im doing a deep dive on Sorber....I get Jalen Smith feel around the basket and as a playmaker....not as a shooter. I assume people think his upside is more...is it the defense?
I really like Sorber but I can't help but think don't we already have Smith, and while I like him a lot, don't we want an upgrade to Smith?
2weekswithpay wrote:I don't understand why some criticisms about Pat do not apply to Carter Bryant.
Bryant had 5 games with 10 or more points.
Pat had 13 games with 10 or more points.
Passive Pat had a usage of 22% compared to Bryant's 16%. Pat was almost a year younger than Bryant and showed more as a creator.
If we couldn't squeeze more offense out of Pat, I don't see us getting more out of Bryant.
They're both low usage 3&D players.
Chi town wrote:2weekswithpay wrote:I don't understand why some criticisms about Pat do not apply to Carter Bryant.
Bryant had 5 games with 10 or more points.
Pat had 13 games with 10 or more points.
Passive Pat had a usage of 22% compared to Bryant's 16%. Pat was almost a year younger than Bryant and showed more as a creator.
If we couldn't squeeze more offense out of Pat, I don't see us getting more out of Bryant.
They're both low usage 3&D players.
CB has a motor. Pat never has.
CB has a personality and IQ in spades. Pat has neither.
Guru wrote:Im doing a deep dive on Sorber....I get Jalen Smith feel around the basket and as a playmaker....not as a shooter. I assume people think his upside is more...is it the defense?
I really like Sorber but I can't help but think don't we already have Smith, and while I like him a lot, don't we want an upgrade to Smith?
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:DuckIII wrote:AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:If Demin cracks the top 11 after not projecting as an NBA shooter, defender, or finisher during the season, we should consider ourselves incredibly lucky. It’ll take a couple Saluan-esque reaches for measurables for the board to break our way.
The dude is like 18, measured out incredibly well, and is a once-in-10 drafts type of passer at his size. He has things that are god given and he's a legit 6'9. I agree he will never be an average defender.
But I wholeheartedly reject that he won't be a shooter or finisher. He's very much like Matas in the sense that all the technique and skill is there for those attributes, it will just take a bit. Swing big on elite but currently flawed talent when drafting 12 and our team is projected to keep landing in that range for the foreseeable future.
Right now, and it will change as there are still numerous guys you guys talk about, that I don't talk about, because I have not gotten around to them yet. But for now my top 4 (though my list of guys I like is pretty long) including guys who could conceivably slip but shouldn't is:
KJ
CMB
Essenge
Demin
KJ is a complete player, can play multiple wing positions, and is a winner/gamer/grinder through and through. He's a complete player.
The other three have weaknesses yes, but note that all three are uniquely special in some way with the ability transcend typical role player status if things work out. Don't draft "NICE SOLID GUYS WHO WILL HELP NEXT YEAR". That is not where we are, and those guys are for free agency, not the draft. Target special attributes and develop. That is where we are as a middle-tier team with no franchise player.
I’m with you in terms of process. If any org should should prioritize upside it’s ours. We need to buy as many tickets out of NBA hell as we can.
But as someone who loved Demin’s early season highlights and made a point of watching BYU games because of it, I’d say he’s less a bet than a prayer. If he just needed aberrational development as a shooter, that’d be one thing. If it were the shooting and defense, that’d be another. But it’s shooting, defense, finishing, and strength. There’s also a judgment issue that worries me. He was pulled off the floor in close games for some of the most boneheaded-even-for a-freshman plays I saw from any prospect.
I agree that the passing is tantalizing, but if you’re going to pick one projectible skill to build on, passing is the least important. He won’t see NBA passing windows with his other limitations.
From your list, KJ is starting to interest me again. I got turned off during his mid season slump and didn’t get to watch him once he picked it up again (pre tournament), but I’m willing to gamble that his struggles were at least partly due to injury and adjusting to the American game.
And I love Essengue.
My biggest hope is that one of the top 10 ‘locks’ (Queen, Fears, Kon) slides on draft night, but something tells me they’ll be taken off the board at 11. I can feel it in my bones.
Jcool0 wrote:Chi town wrote:2weekswithpay wrote:I don't understand why some criticisms about Pat do not apply to Carter Bryant.
Bryant had 5 games with 10 or more points.
Pat had 13 games with 10 or more points.
Passive Pat had a usage of 22% compared to Bryant's 16%. Pat was almost a year younger than Bryant and showed more as a creator.
If we couldn't squeeze more offense out of Pat, I don't see us getting more out of Bryant.
They're both low usage 3&D players.
CB has a motor. Pat never has.
CB has a personality and IQ in spades. Pat has neither.
Not sure any of that is actually true.
PJSteven22 wrote:DuckIII wrote:PJSteven22 wrote:Fleming has mobility issues. Which hurts him on the defensive end.
Are you thinking of someone else? Isn't that supposed to be one of his primary strengths?
No it’s him. He has pop but he doesn’t move laterally well plus he played in weak conference. He is a low ceiling low floor player and I wouldn’t draft him in the lottery.
PJSteven22 wrote:DuckIII wrote:PJSteven22 wrote:Fleming has mobility issues. Which hurts him on the defensive end.
Are you thinking of someone else? Isn't that supposed to be one of his primary strengths?
No it’s him. He has pop but he doesn’t move laterally well plus he played in weak conference. He is a low ceiling low floor player and I wouldn’t draft him in the lottery.
sco wrote:AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:DuckIII wrote:
The dude is like 18, measured out incredibly well, and is a once-in-10 drafts type of passer at his size. He has things that are god given and he's a legit 6'9. I agree he will never be an average defender.
But I wholeheartedly reject that he won't be a shooter or finisher. He's very much like Matas in the sense that all the technique and skill is there for those attributes, it will just take a bit. Swing big on elite but currently flawed talent when drafting 12 and our team is projected to keep landing in that range for the foreseeable future.
Right now, and it will change as there are still numerous guys you guys talk about, that I don't talk about, because I have not gotten around to them yet. But for now my top 4 (though my list of guys I like is pretty long) including guys who could conceivably slip but shouldn't is:
KJ
CMB
Essenge
Demin
KJ is a complete player, can play multiple wing positions, and is a winner/gamer/grinder through and through. He's a complete player.
The other three have weaknesses yes, but note that all three are uniquely special in some way with the ability transcend typical role player status if things work out. Don't draft "NICE SOLID GUYS WHO WILL HELP NEXT YEAR". That is not where we are, and those guys are for free agency, not the draft. Target special attributes and develop. That is where we are as a middle-tier team with no franchise player.
I’m with you in terms of process. If any org should should prioritize upside it’s ours. We need to buy as many tickets out of NBA hell as we can.
But as someone who loved Demin’s early season highlights and made a point of watching BYU games because of it, I’d say he’s less a bet than a prayer. If he just needed aberrational development as a shooter, that’d be one thing. If it were the shooting and defense, that’d be another. But it’s shooting, defense, finishing, and strength. There’s also a judgment issue that worries me. He was pulled off the floor in close games for some of the most boneheaded-even-for a-freshman plays I saw from any prospect.
I agree that the passing is tantalizing, but if you’re going to pick one projectible skill to build on, passing is the least important. He won’t see NBA passing windows with his other limitations.
From your list, KJ is starting to interest me again. I got turned off during his mid season slump and didn’t get to watch him once he picked it up again (pre tournament), but I’m willing to gamble that his struggles were at least partly due to injury and adjusting to the American game.
And I love Essengue.
My biggest hope is that one of the top 10 ‘locks’ (Queen, Fears, Kon) slides on draft night, but something tells me they’ll be taken off the board at 11. I can feel it in my bones.
IMO Queen will fall out of the top 10, but I sure don't want him. He just looks like a smaller, non-3pt version of Vuc.