Bears 11.0: Free Agency, College Pro days, Draft & beyond

[Almost Retired]

It’s only another embarrassment for Poles and McCaskey. Then again, Poles convinced Caleb to give it a shot. Then again, Poles and McCaskey screwed Caleb for trusting them. Enter Ben Johnson, hopefully, it been unscrewed.

All that matters now is if Caleb is any good. If not, then yeah, the FO should be well screwed. It already has possibly boned up the choice of Caleb over 1 or 2 other guys. That’s not yet settled science.

Most overhyped concern. We're past those days and no other ballclub has supported a QB THIS MUCH after the offseason we've just had.

Good point. It's a moot issue what happened last year. They are set to roll this year.

Ben Johnson will insist on improved execution. His style is extremely detail oriented. Every player will know what their responsibility is on every single play. Players who can't perform to Ben's expectations will not see the field unless there is no other option due to injuries. And those players will get weeded out in due course.

[Almost Retired]

I feel like Caleb thinks he's doing some damage control to his stock here, but it comes across as not taking ownership of his own lack of improvement last year. The coaching staff failed to put the right team around him and call the right plays, to be sure. I think at the end-of-the-day, he got the y*ps. Just want him to pull out of the nose dive this season. His fear of actually throwing the ball unless a receiver was 5 yards open toward the end was painful.

3500 yards 20 TDs 6 INTs with almost no guidance. I don’t care how you try and explain it, he had a good rookie year.

Hell considering what is being described behind the scenes he had an amazing year, factoring in he wasn’t getting extra help with film.

He legitimately had a top 5 statistical QB season for a 100 year old franchise equipped with a lame duck coach and incompetent OC for the first half of the season and for the second half of the season an interim coach who was fired less than a year prior for failing to show promising development with a QB who was the #1 pick the previous year

Considering how coaching and stability went for Caleb last year, he was completely justified and actually proven right that he should’ve been concerned about being drafted by the Bears.

Nobody is gonna convince me he didn't have the yips. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential still.

Considering the beating he took it's totally understandable. Maybe he did hold the ball too long. But considering the constant pass rush pressures he didn't throw a lot of INTs. Troy Aikman threw 18 INTs in his first and second seasons. And he turned out alright. Caleb had a baptism by fire and lived to tell about it. With 2 new targets and an actual offensive line with many seasoned veterans and a very strong coaching staff he's going to show a vast level of improvement. I cannot wait for the season to start.

[sco]

3500 yards 20 TDs 6 INTs with almost no guidance. I don’t care how you try and explain it, he had a good rookie year.

Hell considering what is being described behind the scenes he had an amazing year, factoring in he wasn’t getting extra help with film.

He legitimately had a top 5 statistical QB season for a 100 year old franchise equipped with a lame duck coach and incompetent OC for the first half of the season and for the second half of the season an interim coach who was fired less than a year prior for failing to show promising development with a QB who was the #1 pick the previous year

Considering how coaching and stability went for Caleb last year, he was completely justified and actually proven right that he should’ve been concerned about being drafted by the Bears.

Nobody is gonna convince me he didn't have the yips. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential still.

Considering the beating he took it's totally understandable. Maybe he did hold the ball too long. But considering the constant pass rush pressures he didn't throw a lot of INTs. Troy Aikman threw 18 INTs in his first and second seasons. And he turned out alright. Caleb had a baptism by fire and lived to tell about it. With 2 new targets and an actual offensive line with many seasoned veterans and a very strong coaching staff he's going to show a vast level of improvement. I cannot wait for the season to start.

I want you to be right, but IMO throwing the ball too long is worse than throwing INT's as a rookie. I am rooting for him to figure it out this season.

[TheJordanRule]

Nobody is gonna convince me he didn't have the yips. I'm not saying he doesn't have potential still.

Considering the beating he took it's totally understandable. Maybe he did hold the ball too long. But considering the constant pass rush pressures he didn't throw a lot of INTs. Troy Aikman threw 18 INTs in his first and second seasons. And he turned out alright. Caleb had a baptism by fire and lived to tell about it. With 2 new targets and an actual offensive line with many seasoned veterans and a very strong coaching staff he's going to show a vast level of improvement. I cannot wait for the season to start.

I want you to be right, but IMO throwing the ball too long is worse than throwing INT's as a rookie. I am rooting for him to figure it out this season.

I can deal with the inaccurate long balls for now because Caleb makes short and mid field completions routinely, and has a canon arm. Justin had the opposite issue, and it made our offense unbearably hit-and-miss. The bread and butter short stuff is what keeps an offense on the field and wears the opposition down. You can bank on those short and mid field completions far more often than that fancy deep ball stuff. Otherwise Justin would have been the greatest QB of all time.

[Hold That]

Overthrowing the receiver is worse than turning the ball over? Since when?

[NesimLE]

Overthrowing the receiver is worse than turning the ball over? Since when?

The key to that argument is "as a rookie." The idea is that you'd prefer your young player to make mistakes that help him figure out what he can and can't do, rather than avoid mistakes out of fear of turnovers, or of making mistakes. So if you overthrow the route instead of trying to make the play, you learn nothing, and in theory, don't improve as a result. At some point, you've got to figure out when and how you can actually fit that ball in there, and the sooner the better. Overthrowing as badly as Caleb did at times has been interpreted by some as an indication that he was playing and being coached not to turn the ball over, rather than making the mistakes and trying to make the progress needed to be a top 5 QB. That's why there's a large subset of us fans who didn't appreciate Eberflus' obvious turnover aversion and playing not to lose, and as such didn't think he'd be the best fit as HC for a young QB with star potential.

Of course that's not to say that it's a bad thing that he wasn't throwing interceptions, ball security is always important, but it's not sufficient for where we want him to be.

[Hold That]

Overthrowing the receiver is worse than turning the ball over? Since when?

The key to that argument is "as a rookie." The idea is that you'd prefer your young player to make mistakes that help him figure out what he can and can't do, rather than avoid mistakes out of fear of turnovers, or of making mistakes. So if you overthrow the route instead of trying to make the play, you learn nothing, and in theory, don't improve as a result. At some point, you've got to figure out when and how you can actually fit that ball in there, and the sooner the better. Overthrowing as badly as Caleb did at times has been interpreted by some as an indication that he was playing and being coached not to turn the ball over, rather than making the mistakes and trying to make the progress needed to be a top 5 QB. That's why there's a large subset of us fans who didn't appreciate Eberflus' obvious turnover aversion and playing not to lose, and as such didn't think he'd be the best fit as HC for a young QB with star potential.

Of course that's not to say that it's a bad thing that he wasn't throwing interceptions, ball security is always important, but it's not sufficient for where we want him to be.

There will never be an example you can give me where a coach will prefer a player to make the incorrect read and throw an INT over making the correct read and over throwing the ball.

Making the correct read is 80% of the battle.


Overthrowing is simply a matter of timing. That’s it. Considering he was in film study alone you can see why the timing was off on deep ball plays.

[MAQ]

Overthrowing the receiver is worse than turning the ball over? Since when?

The key to that argument is "as a rookie." The idea is that you'd prefer your young player to make mistakes that help him figure out what he can and can't do, rather than avoid mistakes out of fear of turnovers, or of making mistakes. So if you overthrow the route instead of trying to make the play, you learn nothing, and in theory, don't improve as a result. At some point, you've got to figure out when and how you can actually fit that ball in there, and the sooner the better. Overthrowing as badly as Caleb did at times has been interpreted by some as an indication that he was playing and being coached not to turn the ball over, rather than making the mistakes and trying to make the progress needed to be a top 5 QB. That's why there's a large subset of us fans who didn't appreciate Eberflus' obvious turnover aversion and playing not to lose, and as such didn't think he'd be the best fit as HC for a young QB with star potential.

Of course that's not to say that it's a bad thing that he wasn't throwing interceptions, ball security is always important, but it's not sufficient for where we want him to be.

There will never be an example you can give me where a coach will prefer a player to make the incorrect read and throw an INT over making the correct read and over throwing the ball.

Making the correct read is 80% of the battle.


Overthrowing is simply a matter of timing. That’s it. Considering he was in film study alone you can see why the timing was off on deep ball plays.

I think you're over simplifying? INT's can also be a timing issue or an over (or under) thrown issue as well.

I'd also say just because the throw didnt get picked doesn't guarantee it was the right read.

I'd like Caleb to take more chances. I could have lived with him doubling that interception amount last year and not batted an eye.

[NesimLE]

Overthrowing the receiver is worse than turning the ball over? Since when?

The key to that argument is "as a rookie." The idea is that you'd prefer your young player to make mistakes that help him figure out what he can and can't do, rather than avoid mistakes out of fear of turnovers, or of making mistakes. So if you overthrow the route instead of trying to make the play, you learn nothing, and in theory, don't improve as a result. At some point, you've got to figure out when and how you can actually fit that ball in there, and the sooner the better. Overthrowing as badly as Caleb did at times has been interpreted by some as an indication that he was playing and being coached not to turn the ball over, rather than making the mistakes and trying to make the progress needed to be a top 5 QB. That's why there's a large subset of us fans who didn't appreciate Eberflus' obvious turnover aversion and playing not to lose, and as such didn't think he'd be the best fit as HC for a young QB with star potential.

Of course that's not to say that it's a bad thing that he wasn't throwing interceptions, ball security is always important, but it's not sufficient for where we want him to be.

There will never be an example you can give me where a coach will prefer a player to make the incorrect read and throw an INT over making the correct read and over throwing the ball.

Making the correct read is 80% of the battle.


Overthrowing is simply a matter of timing. That’s it. Considering he was in film study alone you can see why the timing was off on deep ball plays.

You can make a correct read that requires a tough throw, a tight window, or even 'throwing a guy open' (!) and I think that's what we wanted to see evidence of. It's entirely possible that it's just not his style/game, but it'd be nice to have a QB that puts the defense on the back foot with his timing, leading receivers, etc...and we've literally never had that in Chicago. And it's not likely that a QB can develop that when his coach doesn't want him to make mistakes on one hand, and the OC doesn't drill timing/drop depth on the other hand. The best our coaches have been able to do in my memory, is occasionally scheme guys open, before the rest of the league figures them out, and performance declines 'til they get fired and the QB(s) are gone.

There were just some bad overthrows, and it never felt like it improved throughout the season. Early we hoped it was just familiarity, but as the season progressed and that aspect never came, it coincided with his no INT streak, which led to a bit of the narrative that he was being overly cautious, perhaps unfairly so. Really hoping that the things we're hearing/seeing with Ben's attention to detail and accountability that things will start to come together. We've always needed a coach that can help the QB know what the "open" read will look like, and to then trust that read, and the pocket around him. I'm nowhere near informed enough to know how coachable some of that is (as again, we Bears fans only see other teams do it to us lol) but that's the dream innit?

[Dresden]

I'm pretty sure Caleb's inaccuracy on deep balls was due to him not wanting to get picked, and often using a deep throw almost as a way to just throw the ball away. I really don't think he was trying to hit his receiver on some of those plays- he had to get rid of the ball, so he made a half hearted attempt and just made sure it wasn't going to get picked. I think you'll see that problem go away this year.

[Chi town]

I'm pretty sure Caleb's inaccuracy on deep balls was due to him not wanting to get picked, and often using a deep throw almost as a way to just throw the ball away. I really don't think he was trying to hit his receiver on some of those plays- he had to get rid of the ball, so he made a half hearted attempt and just made sure it wasn't going to get picked. I think you'll see that problem go away this year.

Agreed. Flus coached the yips into him.

Coach will have Caleb getting the ball out much quicker and I expect more open WRs deep and those throws to be on the money

[Dresden]

Brock Purdy gets $265 M for 5 years, with 181 M guaranteed. Caleb will probably get 300-350 M, if not more, when his contract is up.

[fleet]

As he should be at his size, Monangai appears quicker, more precise, and more sudden than the other guys. And balanced.

Read on Twitter

[fleet]

As suspected, Poles fell in love with the player, and puts the blinders on, due diligence goes out the window

Read on Twitter

[nomorezorro]

no gm on earth was taking daniels no. 1 overall in that draft. wanting the bears to do performative research on a guy they were never drafting is classic meathead stuff

[fleet]

no gm on earth was taking daniels no. 1 overall in that draft. wanting the bears to do performative research on a guy they were never drafting is classic meathead stuff

Calling research “performative” on a perhaps what can turn out to be a better player for the most important pick the franchise has ever had, cannot be a serious take. Not for the job responsibilities of a million dollar jobholder entrusted with caring for the future of a city treasure. And btw, be respectful. Leila Rahimi is as smart as any of us.

there may have been a fair number of GMs on earth that would have taken Daniels. Or traded down for Daniels. Or whoever. If they took the time to do their jobs perhaps.

[NesimLE]

no gm on earth was taking daniels no. 1 overall in that draft. wanting the bears to do performative research on a guy they were never drafting is classic meathead stuff

Calling research “performative” on a perhaps what can turn out to be a better player for the most important pick the franchise has ever had, cannot be a serious take. Not for the job responsibilities of a million dollar jobholder entrusted with caring for the future of a city treasure. And btw, be respectful. Leila Rahimi is as smart as any of us.

there may have been a fair number of GMs on earth that would have taken Daniels. Or traded down for Daniels. Or whoever. If they took the time to do their jobs perhaps.

Right, so not only did they not scout the other options, they apparently didn't bother to build an appropriate coaching staff for the QB they anointed as "The Guy." This is the player you're basically betting your job on, and the next five years of the franchise in the worst case, decade plus in the best case.

I'm honestly not too bothered about the lack of scouting, since in theory, when there's a "consensus" top guy, you can just scout the one and if he meets the appropriate criteria, you could stop there and redirect those resources, but for such an important position, for THIS franchise...it's tough to give them the benefit of the doubt lol. Especially since, as you noted, there was widespread talk that Caleb didn't want to be here (which turned out to be true, although hasn't amounted to anything since he was apparently sold during the process)

[fleet]

no gm on earth was taking daniels no. 1 overall in that draft. wanting the bears to do performative research on a guy they were never drafting is classic meathead stuff

Calling research “performative” on a perhaps what can turn out to be a better player for the most important pick the franchise has ever had, cannot be a serious take. Not for the job responsibilities for a million dollar jobholder entrusted with caring for the future of a city treasure. And btw, be respectful. Leila Rahimi is as smart as any of us.

there may have been a fair number of GMs on earth that would have taken Daniels. Or traded down for Daniels. Or whoever. If they took the time to do their jobs perhaps.

Right, so not only did they not scout the other options, they apparently didn't bother to build an appropriate coaching staff for the QB they anointed as "The Guy." This is the player you're basically betting your job on, and the next five years of the franchise in the worst case, decade plus in the best case.

I'm honestly not too bothered about the lack of scouting, since in theory, when there's a "consensus" top guy, you can just scout the one and if he meets the appropriate criteria, you could stop there and redirect those resources, but for such an important position, for THIS franchise...it's tough to give them the benefit of the doubt lol. Especially since, as you noted, there was widespread talk that Caleb didn't want to be here (which turned out to be true, although hasn't amounted to anything since he was apparently sold during the process)

It’s tough to give them the benefit of the doubt because their judgement is so often badly used. And “consensus” top positional guys are often bypassed in drafts because NFL FOs don’t pay attention to publications and mock drafts. For example, Loveland over Warren.

On coaching as you mentioned…..Evidently Poles shut off the scouting machine, and bet the house on Caleb. Ok, but then they went ahead and hired an OC Caleb had no confidence in, who ultimately failed to connect with Caleb. Anybody working in Lake Forest with a functioning brain stem might have tried to ascertain Caleb’s rough POV on the endless line of names the Bears interviewed for the ones that Caleb was likely comfortable working with. Since they already decided who they were drafting, that would’ve been smart. It’s so funny they interviewed so many people and came up with the one guy, or one of the guys Caleb was like…nah. The dysfunction was insane.

[Hold That]

The key to that argument is "as a rookie." The idea is that you'd prefer your young player to make mistakes that help him figure out what he can and can't do, rather than avoid mistakes out of fear of turnovers, or of making mistakes. So if you overthrow the route instead of trying to make the play, you learn nothing, and in theory, don't improve as a result. At some point, you've got to figure out when and how you can actually fit that ball in there, and the sooner the better. Overthrowing as badly as Caleb did at times has been interpreted by some as an indication that he was playing and being coached not to turn the ball over, rather than making the mistakes and trying to make the progress needed to be a top 5 QB. That's why there's a large subset of us fans who didn't appreciate Eberflus' obvious turnover aversion and playing not to lose, and as such didn't think he'd be the best fit as HC for a young QB with star potential.

Of course that's not to say that it's a bad thing that he wasn't throwing interceptions, ball security is always important, but it's not sufficient for where we want him to be.

There will never be an example you can give me where a coach will prefer a player to make the incorrect read and throw an INT over making the correct read and over throwing the ball.

Making the correct read is 80% of the battle.


Overthrowing is simply a matter of timing. That’s it. Considering he was in film study alone you can see why the timing was off on deep ball plays.

You can make a correct read that requires a tough throw, a tight window, or even 'throwing a guy open' (!) and I think that's what we wanted to see evidence of. It's entirely possible that it's just not his style/game, but it'd be nice to have a QB that puts the defense on the back foot with his timing, leading receivers, etc...and we've literally never had that in Chicago. And it's not likely that a QB can develop that when his coach doesn't want him to make mistakes on one hand, and the OC doesn't drill timing/drop depth on the other hand. The best our coaches have been able to do in my memory, is occasionally scheme guys open, before the rest of the league figures them out, and performance declines 'til they get fired and the QB(s) are gone.

There were just some bad overthrows, and it never felt like it improved throughout the season. Early we hoped it was just familiarity, but as the season progressed and that aspect never came, it coincided with his no INT streak, which led to a bit of the narrative that he was being overly cautious, perhaps unfairly so. Really hoping that the things we're hearing/seeing with Ben's attention to detail and accountability that things will start to come together. We've always needed a coach that can help the QB know what the "open" read will look like, and to then trust that read, and the pocket around him. I'm nowhere near informed enough to know how coachable some of that is (as again, we Bears fans only see other teams do it to us lol) but that's the dream innit?

Caleb has 1 issue that we all can agree on.

Deep ball accuracy.

He made tight window throws all season. Minnesota he had two phenomenal tight window throws that both should have been INTs, the Detroit game, most of his second half performances consisted of tight window throws. This is often the time when they started to open the playbook up and take risk.

People complain about how the offensive line looked and then expect Caleb to have enough time to allow deep field plays to develop.

You wonder why Caleb had a ton of screen and 5 yard passes? The offensive line could rarely hold up for anything more than that to develop. The coaches were fully aware of that and play called as if they knew this as well.

[sco]

There will never be an example you can give me where a coach will prefer a player to make the incorrect read and throw an INT over making the correct read and over throwing the ball.

Making the correct read is 80% of the battle.


Overthrowing is simply a matter of timing. That’s it. Considering he was in film study alone you can see why the timing was off on deep ball plays.

You can make a correct read that requires a tough throw, a tight window, or even 'throwing a guy open' (!) and I think that's what we wanted to see evidence of. It's entirely possible that it's just not his style/game, but it'd be nice to have a QB that puts the defense on the back foot with his timing, leading receivers, etc...and we've literally never had that in Chicago. And it's not likely that a QB can develop that when his coach doesn't want him to make mistakes on one hand, and the OC doesn't drill timing/drop depth on the other hand. The best our coaches have been able to do in my memory, is occasionally scheme guys open, before the rest of the league figures them out, and performance declines 'til they get fired and the QB(s) are gone.

There were just some bad overthrows, and it never felt like it improved throughout the season. Early we hoped it was just familiarity, but as the season progressed and that aspect never came, it coincided with his no INT streak, which led to a bit of the narrative that he was being overly cautious, perhaps unfairly so. Really hoping that the things we're hearing/seeing with Ben's attention to detail and accountability that things will start to come together. We've always needed a coach that can help the QB know what the "open" read will look like, and to then trust that read, and the pocket around him. I'm nowhere near informed enough to know how coachable some of that is (as again, we Bears fans only see other teams do it to us lol) but that's the dream innit?

Caleb has 1 issue that we all can agree on.

Deep ball accuracy.

He made tight window throws all season. Minnesota he had two phenomenal tight window throws that both should have been INTs, the Detroit game, most of his second half performances consisted of tight window throws. This is often the time when they started to open the playbook up and take risk.

People complain about how the offensive line looked and then expect Caleb to have enough time to allow deep field plays to develop.

You wonder why Caleb had a ton of screen and 5 yard passes? The offensive line could rarely hold up for anything more than that to develop. The coaches were fully aware of that and play called as if they knew this as well.

2 issues we can all agree on...holds the ball too long.