Surfing the New CBA - Weltman Comment and Target

[drsd]

DLo
w/o shoes 6'3.25"
standing reach 8'6"
wingspan 6'9.75"

Black
w/o shoes 6'5.75"
standing reach 8'6.50"
wingspan 6'7.50"

Many here, where I am not part of this "many", want a play maker next to Suggs. Black is not that guy.

Personally, if Black can perfect his corner three to go 40% on 4 attempts per game and get his assist/TO line nicely above 2, I would be fine with him as a starter: in time. F-Wagner and Banchero will always be the primary ball handlers on any conceivable roster, in my opinion.

[pepe1991]

here we go again with measurements

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

best point guard in nba history, who also is best shooter in history.


oh here's even funnier
6'4 without shoes measured at Olympics in 1992, you know place where there was no agenda to lie about height to make them look more like super-humans.
best player in history but pss, don't tell anybody he wasn't 6'6.
Won DPOY weighting below 190 pounds as 6'4 guard.

Those are just numbers and don't mean anything, defense is 90% effort, 10% required skill. Being good defender often means not being too fazed about getting grilled after giving full effort. Kawhi is amazing example of it, Lebron would score million points over him and he would not even shrunk shoulders, rather returned to do his job in next play.

[cedric76]

here we go again with measurements

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

best point guard in nba history, who also is best shooter in history.


oh here's even funnier
6'4 without shoes measured at Olympics in 1992, you know place where there was no agenda to lie about height to make them look more like super-humans.
best player in history but pss, don't tell anybody he wasn't 6'6.
Won DPOY weighting below 190 pounds as 6'4 guard.

Those are just numbers and don't mean anything, defense is 90% effort, 10% required skill. Being good defender often means not being too fazed about getting grilled after giving full effort. Kawhi is amazing example of it, Lebron would score million points over him and he would not even shrunk shoulders, rather returned to do his job in next play.

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

Great example as he is below average in Defense , thx for your input Pepe

[pepe1991]

here we go again with measurements

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

best point guard in nba history, who also is best shooter in history.


oh here's even funnier
6'4 without shoes measured at Olympics in 1992, you know place where there was no agenda to lie about height to make them look more like super-humans.
best player in history but pss, don't tell anybody he wasn't 6'6.
Won DPOY weighting below 190 pounds as 6'4 guard.

Those are just numbers and don't mean anything, defense is 90% effort, 10% required skill. Being good defender often means not being too fazed about getting grilled after giving full effort. Kawhi is amazing example of it, Lebron would score million points over him and he would not even shrunk shoulders, rather returned to do his job in next play.

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

Great example as he is below average in Defense , thx for your input Pepe

and one of top 3 most influential players in basketball history, with 4 titles, 2 MVP awards but hey "defense".

Get another Kriss Dunn and act shocked once team is bounced in first round again. And again. And again.

[basketballRob]

We would've been a 50-win team if we were injury free.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using RealGM mobile app

[cedric76]

Cole + Jett+ frp for Sexton

https://youtu.be/4JUz1I8TssI?si=Bq9XzRUy_q8BA5id

[drsd]

Cole + Jett+ frp for Sexton

https://youtu.be/4JUz1I8TssI?si=Bq9XzRUy_q8BA5id

I love that trade for Orlando.

[Skybox]

Cole + Jett+ frp for Sexton

https://youtu.be/4JUz1I8TssI?si=Bq9XzRUy_q8BA5id

I love that trade for Orlando.

Me too, but I'm guessing it's gotta be #16, not #25...I'd prefer next year's. Great reel...my favorite clip (elsewhere) is the one where Collins makes a boneheaded play and is sulking and Sexton is picking him up, hyping him to get back in it. You could feel the energy...dare I say, Suggs-like?

*If he could bring Kessler with him, we are in business...

I like it but I'm a little concerned about sending out all of our expirings in one shot...we gotta get rid of some $$

Assuming it's Ced's trade with ORL 26...I'm looking at KCP + #25 for Vuc.
-we'd get a huge offensive boost in the starting lineup and a huge improvement in the second line with WCJ/Moe/Isaac/AB and ? (I think KCP has no place there as yet another 90% defense guy). Could be a smaller move for a 2nd unit gunner, assuming Sexton starts with Suggs.

[Skybox]

Building on Ced's trade:

#1...
ORL sends: Cole Anthony, Jett Howard, #25
UTA sends: Collin Sexton
Why UTA: Sexton is an expiring but valuable trade chip, Ainge gets back two players who are essentially expiring or he can keep them on controlled salaries as TO's. A late frp is reasonable as Sexton is likely to bolt after years of mediocrity and UTA still looking like they're a year away from flipping any serious switches.

#2...
ORL sends: KCP, Goga, ORL 26 frp (top 5)
CHI sends: Vucevic, Ayo Dosumnu
Why CHI...Chicago drafts Maluach and adds KCP for a tougher, more defensive-minded lineup around Giddey & Coby White's offensive core, get a frp. Goga fills in at Center until Maluach is ready to take over. Goga's price tag is fine for a strong backup C. Collins is there, but historically unreliable but also versatile enough to get time at PF until he expires or is moved at TD.

Vuc, WCJ, Raynaud/Wolf #16, (Moe)
Paolo, WCJ, Isaac
Franz, Isaac, TdS
Suggs, AB, Queen
Sexton, Dosunmu, AB

[Skybox]

Taking Ced's to an unlikely but amazing scenario:
#1
ORL sends: KCP, #16, #25, ORL 27 frp (Top 5)
UTA sends: Sexton, Kessler
Why UTA: Danny isn't dumb - he's already got another trade to move KCP to a contender for more picks & expirings...even if he takes a partial hit on the next move to unload KCP, his net gain is positive overall. Lots of talent moving but lots of picks incoming for UTA...possibly an overpay for the perfect young duo to fill in ORL's starting lineup. Both will be expiring and will need new deals...Weltman's work to make this deal will be celebrated, but he'll still have to lock down reasonable extensions for both. I expect Sexton to stay appx where he is, but Kessler will likely boost up to $18m or so - which is still a good deal. Other bodies may need to be moved out at the TD or next summer.

#2
ORL sends: Goga, Jett Howard, 2 srps
LAL sends: Knecht, Gabe Vincent
Why LAL: even if LAL still goes hunting for a higher-profile starting C, Goga is more than adequate as a backup and, possibly, as the starter on a contender with two of the best passers in NBA history, not to mention Reaves. Minimal draft equity required as Goga is a solid player for LAL's win-now run...Although Vincent might emerge as a sneaky-good part of this deal-as a more dynamic, younger CoJo upgrade...Vincent, given the opportunity, might even be this year's Ty Jerome story...he's delivered in big moments as a tough, undrafted PG with a chip on his shoulder.

Decline TO's on Caleb Houstan, Moe Wagner, CoJo, Gary Harris...re-work Moe's deal for a new 2yr + 1TO averaging $9m, front-loaded heavily

Kessler, WCJ, Moe
Paolo, WCJ, Isaac
Franz, TdS, Knecht
Suggs, AB, Knecht
Vincent, Sexton, AB

Vincent starts at PG, but Sexton likely plays more minutes, including many with the starters. Sexton/AB with Knecht make for a potentially formidable reserve backcourt. Sexton could also certainly start, but this variation does significantly strengthen the bench while reinforcing Paolo & Franz as the primary playmakers. Much bigger, deeper, more physical big man rotation with lots of versatility when Moe returns.

[BadMofoPimp]

Would be funny to see Magic fans reaction to Cole pull Sexton like stats on Utah.

[cedric76]

Would be funny to see Magic fans reaction to Cole pull Sexton like stats on Utah.

While being hunt on D by opposing team?

[cedric76]

You see what's happening in Boston right now — they're a prime example of what the new CBA is designed to prevent. They’ve built an elite team, but with the second apron kicking in, they’re going to have to break it up. Too many big contracts, too little flexibility. That’s the price of stacking max deals without long-term cap planning.

This is exactly why it’s so important that we continue to be smart this summer.

If we want to keep our core together (Paolo, Franz, Suggs, WCJ) and avoid being forced into tough choices like Boston down the line, we need to add a starting-level guard that we can both afford and retain long-term — ideally someone we can lock in for less than $25M/year over four years.

Going after a flashy name now without cap awareness could box us into a corner in 2-3 years. But if we stay disciplined and land a guy we can grow with — like Sexton, Simons (at the right number), or even Trey Murphy if the opportunity is there — we’ll be in a much stronger position when Paolo and Franz are in their primes.

The structure of our contracts is one of the best in the league, and we’re set up to compete and stay under the second apron if we keep making smart moves. Let’s not blow that edge.

[Skybox]

You see what's happening in Boston right now — they're a prime example of what the new CBA is designed to prevent. They’ve built an elite team, but with the second apron kicking in, they’re going to have to break it up. Too many big contracts, too little flexibility. That’s the price of stacking max deals without long-term cap planning.

This is exactly why it’s so important that we continue to be smart this summer.

If we want to keep our core together (Paolo, Franz, Suggs, WCJ) and avoid being forced into tough choices like Boston down the line, we need to add a starting-level guard that we can both afford and retain long-term — ideally someone we can lock in for less than $25M/year over four years.

Going after a flashy name now without cap awareness could box us into a corner in 2-3 years. But if we stay disciplined and land a guy we can grow with — like Sexton, Simons (at the right number), or even Trey Murphy if the opportunity is there — we’ll be in a much stronger position when Paolo and Franz are in their primes.

The structure of our contracts is one of the best in the league, and we’re set up to compete and stay under the second apron if we keep making smart moves. Let’s not blow that edge.

Honestly, the more time I spend muddling around on this stuff, my conclusion is...the CBA absolutely sucks! Just like the lottery it penalizes competent management and scouting. The Supermax will chase more stars out of town than keep them in small markets (like it was designed to) and the second apron makes teams who draft brilliantly (and ACTUALLY develop players) at any place in the draft - ultimately take apart the team they constructed.

Desmond Bane, Draymond Green were late picks who turned out great and get paid but then your hands are tied when it comes to maintaining your build. It just seems counterintuitive to me...but, at the same time, guys are just getting paid too much, which is always the real concern of the owners. Bane pushing $45m is just stupid. I'm not "pocket-watching", good for him, but is he THAT impactful or just an elite role player like another one, Anunoby. I'm just saying GMs are scared to "disrespect" really good players and overpay them but you just can't pay 2 great players like stars and build a decent team. JJJ is the next one, great player but very incomplete...if SuperMax or anything near it was somehow reserved for true stars, it would work but teams overpay "almost stars" too often. This is how I felt about Suggs making $35m until I saw how steeply his deal descends- which makes it fine.

It's a stirring intellectual puzzle to manage the cap in this environment...but it's not really fan-friendly to watch teams find gems and then have to sacrifice good, home-grown players (if they get too good).

[Skybox]

Crazy scenario...

Weltman very craftily compiles 5 high lottery picks in 3 years (think about that )...if he had hit on Black and Jett the way he did on Suggs and Franz, this would be already an amazing team...but this time next year, with Paolo's max signed and in the safe, Black and Jett would be looking for $30-40m each or more (like Suggs and Franz got). What then? Fire Weltman for his success? and you really couldn't even sign and trade for value because every other team would need to clear space to take them in.

We wouldn't be able to keep them...you'd have $200m among 5 kids alone.

It's anti-American, but I wonder if some kind of salary "slotting" like draftees have would make sense. Honestly, you think they won't play in the NBA if they ONLY got $10m a year (just a number-the idea isn't to just give all the money to owners-it's to give teams the opportunity to keep good players). Let the endorsements make them rich beyond their lesser peers. So, like a 4th year guy that was drafted #5 (or whatever) makes $X if the team elects to extend them. Fee schedule like our wonderful health care system

The fear, I guess, would be the UAE starting a league and offering a billion dollars to Ant & SGA.

[Blue_and_Whte]

here we go again with measurements

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

best point guard in nba history, who also is best shooter in history.


oh here's even funnier
6'4 without shoes measured at Olympics in 1992, you know place where there was no agenda to lie about height to make them look more like super-humans.
best player in history but pss, don't tell anybody he wasn't 6'6.
Won DPOY weighting below 190 pounds as 6'4 guard.

Those are just numbers and don't mean anything, defense is 90% effort, 10% required skill. Being good defender often means not being too fazed about getting grilled after giving full effort. Kawhi is amazing example of it, Lebron would score million points over him and he would not even shrunk shoulders, rather returned to do his job in next play.

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

Great example as he is below average in Defense , thx for your input Pepe

and one of top 3 most influential players in basketball history, with 4 titles, 2 MVP awards but hey "defense".

Get another Kriss Dunn and act shocked once team is bounced in first round again. And again. And again.

Yeah the obsession over defense is wild to me. We have more than enough buffer to have a dynamic scorer with questionable defense on the team.

[pepe1991]

Here's one
6'2 without shoes
6'3 wingspan
180 pounds

Great example as he is below average in Defense , thx for your input Pepe

and one of top 3 most influential players in basketball history, with 4 titles, 2 MVP awards but hey "defense".

Get another Kriss Dunn and act shocked once team is bounced in first round again. And again. And again.

Yeah the obsession over defense is wild to me. We have more than enough buffer to have a dynamic scorer with questionable defense on the team.

And AGAIN this year's playoffs prove that you can will bad defensive teams into playing good defense with just more effort :
Knicks #13 Defense
Pacers #14 defense
Nuggets #21 defense

but you simply can't will bad offense into playing good playoff basketball ( especially on offense)

This are offensive ratings of remaining teams from regular season:

OKC - 3# offense
Nuggets - 4# offense
Knicks - 5# offense
Wolves 8# offense
Pacers 9# offense


Meaning, without top 10 offense you simply can't contend. That's nothing new, in past 30 years i think only 4 teams won without top 10 offense: Hakeem's Rockets in 1995, Kobe & Gasol 2010, Lebron's Lakers in 2020 and Pistons in 2004.

But hey, let's find another stiff wood on perimeter

I mean, by just watching Nuggets vs OKc you can see why concept of ultra strong team defense is overrated. Nuggets still find ways to hunt them down and punish them ,where Nuggets exploit their lack of self creation outside of SGA & J Will.
And Nuggets are doing it with 5 NBA level players and Porter who looks like Mo Harkless out there.

[cedric76]

You see what's happening in Boston right now — they're a prime example of what the new CBA is designed to prevent. They’ve built an elite team, but with the second apron kicking in, they’re going to have to break it up. Too many big contracts, too little flexibility. That’s the price of stacking max deals without long-term cap planning.

This is exactly why it’s so important that we continue to be smart this summer.

If we want to keep our core together (Paolo, Franz, Suggs, WCJ) and avoid being forced into tough choices like Boston down the line, we need to add a starting-level guard that we can both afford and retain long-term — ideally someone we can lock in for less than $25M/year over four years.

Going after a flashy name now without cap awareness could box us into a corner in 2-3 years. But if we stay disciplined and land a guy we can grow with — like Sexton, Simons (at the right number), or even Trey Murphy if the opportunity is there — we’ll be in a much stronger position when Paolo and Franz are in their primes.

The structure of our contracts is one of the best in the league, and we’re set up to compete and stay under the second apron if we keep making smart moves. Let’s not blow that edge.

Honestly, the more time I spend muddling around on this stuff, my conclusion is...the CBA absolutely sucks! Just like the lottery it penalizes competent management and scouting. The Supermax will chase more stars out of town than keep them in small markets (like it was designed to) and the second apron makes teams who draft brilliantly (and ACTUALLY develop players) at any place in the draft - ultimately take apart the team they constructed.

Desmond Bane, Draymond Green were late picks who turned out great and get paid but then your hands are tied when it comes to maintaining your build. It just seems counterintuitive to me...but, at the same time, guys are just getting paid too much, which is always the real concern of the owners. Bane pushing $45m is just stupid. I'm not "pocket-watching", good for him, but is he THAT impactful or just an elite role player like another one, Anunoby. I'm just saying GMs are scared to "disrespect" really good players and overpay them but you just can't pay 2 great players like stars and build a decent team. JJJ is the next one, great player but very incomplete...if SuperMax or anything near it was somehow reserved for true stars, it would work but teams overpay "almost stars" too often. This is how I felt about Suggs making $35m until I saw how steeply his deal descends- which makes it fine.

It's a stirring intellectual puzzle to manage the cap in this environment...but it's not really fan-friendly to watch teams find gems and then have to sacrifice good, home-grown players (if they get too good).

It doesnt suck if you build the right way

[Skybox]

You see what's happening in Boston right now — they're a prime example of what the new CBA is designed to prevent. They’ve built an elite team, but with the second apron kicking in, they’re going to have to break it up. Too many big contracts, too little flexibility. That’s the price of stacking max deals without long-term cap planning.

This is exactly why it’s so important that we continue to be smart this summer.

If we want to keep our core together (Paolo, Franz, Suggs, WCJ) and avoid being forced into tough choices like Boston down the line, we need to add a starting-level guard that we can both afford and retain long-term — ideally someone we can lock in for less than $25M/year over four years.

Going after a flashy name now without cap awareness could box us into a corner in 2-3 years. But if we stay disciplined and land a guy we can grow with — like Sexton, Simons (at the right number), or even Trey Murphy if the opportunity is there — we’ll be in a much stronger position when Paolo and Franz are in their primes.

The structure of our contracts is one of the best in the league, and we’re set up to compete and stay under the second apron if we keep making smart moves. Let’s not blow that edge.

Honestly, the more time I spend muddling around on this stuff, my conclusion is...the CBA absolutely sucks! Just like the lottery it penalizes competent management and scouting. The Supermax will chase more stars out of town than keep them in small markets (like it was designed to) and the second apron makes teams who draft brilliantly (and ACTUALLY develop players) at any place in the draft - ultimately take apart the team they constructed.

Desmond Bane, Draymond Green were late picks who turned out great and get paid but then your hands are tied when it comes to maintaining your build. It just seems counterintuitive to me...but, at the same time, guys are just getting paid too much, which is always the real concern of the owners. Bane pushing $45m is just stupid. I'm not "pocket-watching", good for him, but is he THAT impactful or just an elite role player like another one, Anunoby. I'm just saying GMs are scared to "disrespect" really good players and overpay them but you just can't pay 2 great players like stars and build a decent team. JJJ is the next one, great player but very incomplete...if SuperMax or anything near it was somehow reserved for true stars, it would work but teams overpay "almost stars" too often. This is how I felt about Suggs making $35m until I saw how steeply his deal descends- which makes it fine.

It's a stirring intellectual puzzle to manage the cap in this environment...but it's not really fan-friendly to watch teams find gems and then have to sacrifice good, home-grown players (if they get too good).

It doesnt suck if you build the right way

It does suck if you draft too well and are forced to pay hundreds of millions in penalties, not to mention the player movement handcuffs you get for your troubles..."draft too well" is a phrase that should never be uttered, certainly hasn't been uttered in ORL lately.

[cedric76]

Honestly, the more time I spend muddling around on this stuff, my conclusion is...the CBA absolutely sucks! Just like the lottery it penalizes competent management and scouting. The Supermax will chase more stars out of town than keep them in small markets (like it was designed to) and the second apron makes teams who draft brilliantly (and ACTUALLY develop players) at any place in the draft - ultimately take apart the team they constructed.

Desmond Bane, Draymond Green were late picks who turned out great and get paid but then your hands are tied when it comes to maintaining your build. It just seems counterintuitive to me...but, at the same time, guys are just getting paid too much, which is always the real concern of the owners. Bane pushing $45m is just stupid. I'm not "pocket-watching", good for him, but is he THAT impactful or just an elite role player like another one, Anunoby. I'm just saying GMs are scared to "disrespect" really good players and overpay them but you just can't pay 2 great players like stars and build a decent team. JJJ is the next one, great player but very incomplete...if SuperMax or anything near it was somehow reserved for true stars, it would work but teams overpay "almost stars" too often. This is how I felt about Suggs making $35m until I saw how steeply his deal descends- which makes it fine.

It's a stirring intellectual puzzle to manage the cap in this environment...but it's not really fan-friendly to watch teams find gems and then have to sacrifice good, home-grown players (if they get too good).

It doesnt suck if you build the right way

It does suck if you draft too well and are forced to pay hundreds of millions in penalties, not to mention the player movement handcuffs you get for your troubles..."draft too well" is a phrase that should never be uttered, certainly hasn't been uttered in ORL lately.

TEam just have to be better with Assets management, the new CBA is great