2025 NBA Draft Class

[Catchall]

Over here in Jazzland, some of us are thinking that it's Ace Bailey who is likely to slip to #5, while VJ Edgecombe and Tre Johnson go #3 and #4 in some order. Combine measurements are a factor.

Also, there is a reasonable chance that Noa Essengue will turn out to be a better overall player than Ace. Noa's size, ability to run the floor and get downhill, finish at the rim, and make defensive plays all compare well vs. Ace Bailey. Ace needs to pan out as a bonafide shooter to make his top-5 case hold up.

didn't Ace basically measure almost identical to Flagg and Tatum? How did his measurements hurt him? And how does VJ who measured much smaller with a pedestrian wingspan jump him based on measurements?

Because he’s not nearly as good or productive as those guys, and basically his entire appeal was that he was a size outlier as a shooting wing. If you’re the tools guy that is sort of lacking production, the tools need to be outlier at your position.

6’10 versatile shooters are really rare. 6’7 ones are much less rare and game changing.

VJ is just a substantially better athlete and people were worried he might be 6’2. I’m not sure it should boost him above Bailey, but he came in bigger than some thought, and Ace much smaller.

To me, 6’9 in socks would have been a big win for ace, 6’8 kind of a break even. 6’7 dulls it a little IMO.

Ace is 6'7.5" in socks, same as Paul George. He's also still 18. He's fine.

[tontoz]

Fwiw Ace has a standing reach of 8'11, the same as Al Horford.

[NO-KG-AI]

didn't Ace basically measure almost identical to Flagg and Tatum? How did his measurements hurt him? And how does VJ who measured much smaller with a pedestrian wingspan jump him based on measurements?

Because he’s not nearly as good or productive as those guys, and basically his entire appeal was that he was a size outlier as a shooting wing. If you’re the tools guy that is sort of lacking production, the tools need to be outlier at your position.

6’10 versatile shooters are really rare. 6’7 ones are much less rare and game changing.

VJ is just a substantially better athlete and people were worried he might be 6’2. I’m not sure it should boost him above Bailey, but he came in bigger than some thought, and Ace much smaller.

To me, 6’9 in socks would have been a big win for ace, 6’8 kind of a break even. 6’7 dulls it a little IMO.

Ace is 6'7.5" in socks, same as Paul George. He's also still 18. He's fine.

I mean yea, it’s fine. But it’s far from 6’10. Nobody said it wasn’t fine, we just said it’s not special, and it’s not what he was initially sold as lol.

Paul George was the 10th pick, and I don’t think anyone is really saying it’s dropping Ace out of the top 10 for them.

[XTC]

Watching some Cooper Flagg film, and I don't know why I didn't think of this comparision before. Anyone else see a ton of Jimmy Butler in his game?

Cooper is slightly longer, and more athletic, but he approaches the game awfully similar to Jimmy.

[HadAnEffectHere]

Watching some Cooper Flagg film, and I don't know why I didn't think of this comparision before. Anyone else see a ton of Jimmy Butler in his game?

Cooper is slightly longer, and more athletic, but he approaches the game awfully similar to Jimmy.

Yes, his main comparison is more athletic, better shooting Jimmy.

[Chuck Everett]

If Nolan Traore falls past New Orleans or Brooklyn, both teams are making a mistake. And if he's available at 17, Minnesota should take him and never look back.

[Mrakar]

As Pels fan i would be thrilled with Egor Demin. Yes we are filled at wings but we really need smart player and creator on the team and he looks like he will be one. Reminds me a lot of Franz Wagner, he is tall and strong and also plays very smart. He is not great shooter right now but im reading that he was scorching hot on the workouts last couple of days, hit 16 3s in a row in 30 seconds yesterday in Chicago.

[babyjax13]

I have my favorite comp for Kneuppel: Quentin Richardson. Stout shooting guard who could shoot the leather off the ball but who was also physical and generated some points from sealing smaller defenders under the basket and/or powering through them off of rotations. Not a "take you off the dribble" kind of player, but an excellent tertiary scoring option who did a bit more than spot up.

[SNPA]

If Nolan Traore falls past New Orleans or Brooklyn, both teams are making a mistake. And if he's available at 17, Minnesota should take him and never look back.

I’d take him earlier than that. Gem, hiding in the open.

[babyjax13]

If Nolan Traore falls past New Orleans or Brooklyn, both teams are making a mistake. And if he's available at 17, Minnesota should take him and never look back.

I’d take him earlier than that. Gem, hiding in the open.

I think he should be considered starting at 6.

[SNPA]

If Nolan Traore falls past New Orleans or Brooklyn, both teams are making a mistake. And if he's available at 17, Minnesota should take him and never look back.

I’d take him earlier than that. Gem, hiding in the open.

I think he should be considered starting at 6.

I might even go one or two slots earlier.

I’m not impressed post two. There are a bunch of guys ranked teens and twenties I like more than dudes mocked ahead of them. It’s kinda a strange draft for me.

[babyjax13]

I’d take him earlier than that. Gem, hiding in the open.

I think he should be considered starting at 6.

I might even go one or two slots earlier.

I’m not impressed post two. There are a bunch of guys ranked teens and twenties I like more than dudes mocked ahead of them. It’s kinda a strange draft for me.

I've tried to have less variability in how I rank the international prospects after a season in adult leagues. Traore and Gonzales didn't have great years, but I think some of that is just playing in real leagues at their age and the experience will be beneficial. Traore looked like he was in a race with Bailey and Harper to be the next best prospect after Flagg based on summer play. I also feel like Gonzales could be a huge over-achiever if he drops enough.

[Chuck Everett]

I think he should be considered starting at 6.

I might even go one or two slots earlier.

I’m not impressed post two. There are a bunch of guys ranked teens and twenties I like more than dudes mocked ahead of them. It’s kinda a strange draft for me.

I've tried to have less variability in how I rank the international prospects after a season in adult leagues. Traore and Gonzales didn't have great years, but I think some of that is just playing in real leagues at their age and the experience will be beneficial. Traore looked like he was in a race with Bailey and Harper to be the next best prospect after Flagg based on summer play. I also feel like Gonzales could be a huge over-achiever if he drops enough.

If most of these guys switched places with Traore and had to play against grown men, they would look like crap too. It's like everyone forgot about his 2024 summer. Just asinine.

[SNPA]

I think he should be considered starting at 6.

I might even go one or two slots earlier.

I’m not impressed post two. There are a bunch of guys ranked teens and twenties I like more than dudes mocked ahead of them. It’s kinda a strange draft for me.

I've tried to have less variability in how I rank the international prospects after a season in adult leagues. Traore and Gonzales didn't have great years, but I think some of that is just playing in real leagues at their age and the experience will be beneficial. Traore looked like he was in a race with Bailey and Harper to be the next best prospect after Flagg based on summer play. I also feel like Gonzales could be a huge over-achiever if he drops enough.

It’s a big element to account for, playing grown men can’t be ignored. It’s huge when evaluating a player.

For this draft, Fleming, Lendeborg, Saraf, Yang…I don’t see twenty better players than these guys.

[babyjax13]

I might even go one or two slots earlier.

I’m not impressed post two. There are a bunch of guys ranked teens and twenties I like more than dudes mocked ahead of them. It’s kinda a strange draft for me.

I've tried to have less variability in how I rank the international prospects after a season in adult leagues. Traore and Gonzales didn't have great years, but I think some of that is just playing in real leagues at their age and the experience will be beneficial. Traore looked like he was in a race with Bailey and Harper to be the next best prospect after Flagg based on summer play. I also feel like Gonzales could be a huge over-achiever if he drops enough.

If most of these guys switched places with Traore and had to play against grown men, they would look like crap too. It's like everyone forgot about his 2024 summer. Just asinine.

I don't know that people forgot, but I think if you swapped he and Fears they have similar seasons as the other did in real life.

[SNPA]

Kalkbrenner

Looks like an NBA guy to me. Why is he ranked so low?

[King Ken]

Kalkbrenner

Looks like an NBA guy to me. Why is he ranked so low?

For the same reasons as Jalen Brunson was. Athleticism and Explosiveness. Being polished and not having the prerequisites of a starting NBA center.

Like Jalen, it will be interesting to see where he ends up and his role. He has a clear role as a backup 5. I think he upside could be far more ample depending on his situation.

[SeattleJazzFan]

Because he’s not nearly as good or productive as those guys, and basically his entire appeal was that he was a size outlier as a shooting wing. If you’re the tools guy that is sort of lacking production, the tools need to be outlier at your position.

6’10 versatile shooters are really rare. 6’7 ones are much less rare and game changing.

VJ is just a substantially better athlete and people were worried he might be 6’2. I’m not sure it should boost him above Bailey, but he came in bigger than some thought, and Ace much smaller.

To me, 6’9 in socks would have been a big win for ace, 6’8 kind of a break even. 6’7 dulls it a little IMO.

Ace is 6'7.5" in socks, same as Paul George. He's also still 18. He's fine.

I mean yea, it’s fine. But it’s far from 6’10. Nobody said it wasn’t fine, we just said it’s not special, and it’s not what he was initially sold as lol.

Paul George was the 10th pick, and I don’t think anyone is really saying it’s dropping Ace out of the top 10 for them.

just stop. nobody thought Ace was 6'10 barefoot - so they oversold him by an inch. 6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length. and paul george has elite size and length for a wing. george was the 10th pick because he played at fresno and had some other things - it had nothing to do with his size/length, which again, like Ace is elite.

but seriously, this narrative that Ace was supposed to be 6'10" and measured at 6'7.5 needs to stop. Not one human alive - unless they are absolute morons thought Ace Bailey was 6'11.5" in shoes (which what he'd be if he were 6'10" barefoot). dude went from 6'10" to 6'9". A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

[The-Power]

6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length.

A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

There's no world in which Bailey is a SG.

[SeattleJazzFan]

6'9" with a 7'1" ws for a SG/SF is elite size/length.

A 6'9" SG. yeah, i'll take that.

There's no world in which Bailey is a SG.

ha. have you ever seen him play basketball? of course he is. i mean, to be completely clear, very few players these days are just SGs or SFs - he's a classic 2/3 wing. elite positional length regardless of how you slice it.