2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft

[Negrodamus]

Bouknight has 6’8” wingspan and has questionable IQ.

Lonnie Walker fits the mold, but his biggest issue is offensive consistency. If he were a reliable shooter, I don’t think the Spurs would’ve ever let him go.

I should've went to the actual combine page. I'm scrolling through the past drafts and filtering 6'10 and, I mean, there's a lot but they are exactly as I said: out of the league or buried on a roster.

Yeah, but are they defensive liabilities?

The mere fact that you have to dig deep means they are very few.

I’ll give you one name. Nick Young. But Young is not a serious baller and has questionable IQ. Another one is JR Smith, but I think he was decent.

I'm actually confused by the thought exercise. Is the implication that having a 6'10 wingspan precludes you from being bad a defense?

Additionally, if you're pointing to Brunson as the north star for Tre, then Tre will have to become exponentially better at drawing fouls since that's Brunson's value. If Tre's shots aren't falling, will he be able to get to the rim and draw a foul or hit an incredibly difficult shot during the playoffs?

[76ciology]

Bouknight has 6’8” wingspan and has questionable IQ.

Lonnie Walker fits the mold, but his biggest issue is offensive consistency. If he were a reliable shooter, I don’t think the Spurs would’ve ever let him go.

Nothing I've seen shows Tre has any defensive IQ. Also, Tre doesn't have the hip agility; so while he's athletic in some ways, he isn't when it comes to change of direction and hip fluidity which are both extremely important in being able try and offer resistance at the point of attack. Just watch the vids, he looks like he is standing still b/c he cannot react quickly enough in the hips when a player gets him leaning one way and then shifts back the other.

Most good defenders scores 3.0 defensive box plus minus and above. Why does Ace Bailey only scores .8?

I’ve also never seen a good defender scoring this low.

[76ciology]

I should've went to the actual combine page. I'm scrolling through the past drafts and filtering 6'10 and, I mean, there's a lot but they are exactly as I said: out of the league or buried on a roster.

Yeah, but are they defensive liabilities?

The mere fact that you have to dig deep means they are very few.

I’ll give you one name. Nick Young. But Young is not a serious baller and has questionable IQ. Another one is JR Smith, but I think he was decent.

I'm actually confused by the thought exercise. Is the implication that having a 6'10 wingspan precludes you from being bad a defense?

The point of the exercise is to highlight how rare it is for athletic players with a 6’10” wingspan to be true defensive liabilities. That alone suggests there’s a strong chance Tre Johnson can develop into at least a solid defender.

Most of the league’s notable defensive liabilities guys like Seth Curry, JJ Redick, and Trae Young, tend to be undersized, unathletic, and limited in terms of length. Tre’s physical tools give him a much higher defensive ceiling by comparison.

[Negrodamus]

Yeah, but are they defensive liabilities?

The mere fact that you have to dig deep means they are very few.

I’ll give you one name. Nick Young. But Young is not a serious baller and has questionable IQ. Another one is JR Smith, but I think he was decent.

I'm actually confused by the thought exercise. Is the implication that having a 6'10 wingspan precludes you from being bad a defense?

The point of the exercise is to highlight how rare it is for athletic players with a 6’10” wingspan to be true defensive liabilities. That alone suggests there’s a strong chance Tre Johnson can develop into at least a solid defender.

Most of the league’s notable defensive liabilities guys like Seth Curry, JJ Redick, and Trae Young, tend to be undersized, unathletic, and limited in terms of length. Tre’s physical tools give him a much higher defensive ceiling by comparison.

Patrick McCaw, Buddy Hield (6'9.25 but whatever), Wayne Selden, Wade Baldwin, all from the same draft. Defense was quite bad in the NBA. Maybe Baldwin you can argue had a good season.

[76ciology]

I'm actually confused by the thought exercise. Is the implication that having a 6'10 wingspan precludes you from being bad a defense?

The point of the exercise is to highlight how rare it is for athletic players with a 6’10” wingspan to be true defensive liabilities. That alone suggests there’s a strong chance Tre Johnson can develop into at least a solid defender.

Most of the league’s notable defensive liabilities guys like Seth Curry, JJ Redick, and Trae Young, tend to be undersized, unathletic, and limited in terms of length. Tre’s physical tools give him a much higher defensive ceiling by comparison.

Patrick McCaw, Buddy Hield (6'9.25 but whatever), Wayne Selden, Wade Baldwin, all from the same draft. Defense was quite bad in the NBA. Maybe Baldwin you can argue had a good season.

Imagine they were just as good defensively as how their careers turn out, but each averaged 20 points per game and were efficient shooters, do you really think they’d be out of the league?

They weren’t out of the league because of their defense. They’re out because they weren’t good enough as scorers to justify keeping them on the floor.

[ExplosionsInDaSky]

I think Tre Johnsons defensive liabilities are just as overblown as the negatives surrounding Bailey. The issues or worries that these kids have can be fixed over time in the league. Some of you argue as if these are finished products at 18 years old.
Bailey, Tre, Edgecombe, Queen, Kon, Fears.. We can't go wrong with any of them. I think they will all be solid pros.

[76ciology]

Give me a good defensive player with below 1 defensive box plus minus.

[76ciology]

I’m not worried about Tre Johnson’s defense. What concerns me more is his halfcourt rim frequency and finishing percentage at the rim. If he can improve in that area, you’re looking at an athletic shot creator with a 6’10” wingspan who can score 25++ per game at all three levels, while also creating for others.

[Negrodamus]

Give me a good defensive player with below 1 defensive box plus minus.

Anthony Edwards is alright.

(I'd argue anything under 2 dbpm is usually bad).

[76ciology]

Give me a good defensive player with below 1 defensive box plus minus.

Anthony Edwards is alright.

(I'd argue anything under 2 dbpm is usually bad).

That was a good find BTW.

[76ciology]

OT

Watch on YouTube

[Mik317]

he looks like he ate Hassan Whiteside

[76thBearCub]

99 pages already. You guys are appreciated physcos

[KramerDSP]

I used ChatGPT to scrape ace baileys high school free throw stats but didn’t have much luck. Instead, it listed like 10-15 of his monster high school games and cited max prep. There was enough info that someone with more time and passion on their hands could look further into finding free throw numbers via perhaps local high school basketball beat writers using some of the dates and team names generated from the prompt.

[Kobblehead]

More like Hassan DWIGHTside.

[Arsenal]

Give me a good defensive player with below 1 defensive box plus minus.

Anthony Edwards had a 0.7 DBPM. This is a bogus stat anyway since it is dependent on assists for some weird reason, which is why Jokic breaks the scale on BPM because of a massive assist number for his position.

I saw a stat somewhere that Bailey's DFG against was outstanding, limiting guys to around 40% at the rim, and a low % from the field also. Does anyone have that stat?

[Arsenal]

From reddit:



Not sure of the original source, but if he truly shot almost 90% from the free throw line that is big. Add that along with the Rutgers numbers since both are a small sample size and you're around 80% on average through 2 seasons.

Full post here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/1j9xmjj/ace_bailey_free_throw/

[76ciology]

Give me a good defensive player with below 1 defensive box plus minus.

Anthony Edwards had a 0.7 DBPM. This is a bogus stat anyway since it is dependent on assists for some weird reason, which is why Jokic breaks the scale on BPM because of a massive assist number for his position.

I saw a stat somewhere that Bailey's DFG against was outstanding, limiting guys to around 40% at the rim, and a low % from the field also. Does anyone have that stat?

I did a research on it. Edwards was really bad on defense early on.

https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2021/01/21/minnesota-timberwolves-examining-the-early-returns-on-anthony-edwards-defense/

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/1964306/2020/08/07/2020-nba-draft-college-coaches-poll-what-matters-most-for-anthony-edwards/

Georgia's defensive rating was 7 points worse when Edwards was on the floor compared to when he was off, indicating a negative team impact defensively . This was partly attributed to his inconsistent effort and awareness.

[Kobblehead]

Guard defense is way overrated.

Nuggets wouldn't have won title without the finishing touches that Bruce Brown and KCP provided.
Celtics wouldn't have won title without the finishing touches that Jrue Holiday and Derrick White provided.

The Thunder are trying to break through with Cason Wallace, Lu Dort, and Alex Caruso being the cherry on the top.

I agree that you probably shouldn't prioritize defense in a top G prospect, but in a general sense, you ain't winning unless you eventually acquire defensive Gs.

[Stanford]

I forget MPJ is even on the floor and this is Ace's upside projection.