Where to from here?

[shi-woo]

I think Derrick White is the biggest question here. If next year is a gap year/bridge year you have to start asking questions about what he’s going to look like in 2-4 years. He’s 30 years old coming off a career year, but he’s also a smaller guard with a lot of playoff miles on him.

Is there a Mikal Bridges level package out there for him? Or something close to it? I think it’s a very interesting conversation.

Porzingis is also an interesting conversation because his combination of size and skill is extremely hard to replace. What does his next contract look like as a result of his durability issues and it worth keeping him around hoping that you get some playoff runs out of him.

But selling high on White is probably the most difficult conversation.

I keep coming back to White as well, as after JB he will bring in the most, and if we're being honest, he's strictly just been a 3pnt shooter and okay defender for us the past couple of years.

The trade and team I see for a White trade is HOU, who has the clearest need for him, the history with Ime who wanted him in the first place, and the fact they have a young prospect in Reed Shepard and a lottery pick that they ultimately can part ways with.

Reed, #10, and Brooks for White and Hauser works. Celtics get younger, get that dog type player in Brooks, Reed was the #3 pick last year, a great shooter, and uber athlete, and we can get the best player that falls to 10. HOU improves their 3pnt shooting drastically, gets a lead guard that plays D and is a perfect compliment for their young guys, and if Hauser is in the deal, one of the best bench shooters in the game. They will also free up more time for Amen, Tari, and Cam this way. The trade just looks too perfect for both teams. If they are out of the Giannis sweepstakes, I actually like this type of trade for them over someone like KD who they have been rumored to.

The team for KP I see is CHI. They want to win now, and have some contracts that we can swap with. They have the #12 pick, which is solid, and again could work something out. Doing something like Huerter, Collins, and #12 for KP, Tillman, and #28. They get a massive upgrade in talent with KP over Huerter just for swapping picks. Celtics get 2 contracts that are easier to move and expirering next year, Huerter is a solid bench piece, and then obviously we get the 12 pick.

I wish IND wasn't a rival team, because I would be looking at Benedict MAthurin too as one of these young guys we could try to get

[ConstableGeneva]

Scheierman, first day of training camp:

[R-DAWG]

I think Derrick White is the biggest question here. If next year is a gap year/bridge year you have to start asking questions about what he’s going to look like in 2-4 years. He’s 30 years old coming off a career year, but he’s also a smaller guard with a lot of playoff miles on him.

Is there a Mikal Bridges level package out there for him? Or something close to it? I think it’s a very interesting conversation.

Porzingis is also an interesting conversation because his combination of size and skill is extremely hard to replace. What does his next contract look like as a result of his durability issues and it worth keeping him around hoping that you get some playoff runs out of him.

But selling high on White is probably the most difficult conversation.

I keep coming back to White as well, as after JB he will bring in the most, and if we're being honest, he's strictly just been a 3pnt shooter and okay defender for us the past couple of years.

The trade and team I see for a White trade is HOU, who has the clearest need for him, the history with Ime who wanted him in the first place, and the fact they have a young prospect in Reed Shepard and a lottery pick that they ultimately can part ways with.

Reed, #10, and Brooks for White and Hauser works. Celtics get younger, get that dog type player in Brooks, Reed was the #3 pick last year, a great shooter, and uber athlete, and we can get the best player that falls to 10. HOU improves their 3pnt shooting drastically, gets a lead guard that plays D and is a perfect compliment for their young guys, and if Hauser is in the deal, one of the best bench shooters in the game. They will also free up more time for Amen, Tari, and Cam this way. The trade just looks too perfect for both teams. If they are out of the Giannis sweepstakes, I actually like this type of trade for them over someone like KD who they have been rumored to.

The team for KP I see is CHI. They want to win now, and have some contracts that we can swap with. They have the #12 pick, which is solid, and again could work something out. Doing something like Huerter, Collins, and #12 for KP, Tillman, and #28. They get a massive upgrade in talent with KP over Huerter just for swapping picks. Celtics get 2 contracts that are easier to move and expirering next year, Huerter is a solid bench piece, and then obviously we get the 12 pick.

I wish IND wasn't a rival team, because I would be looking at Benedict MAthurin too as one of these young guys we could try to get

I would say the teams in the White/Holiday sweepstakes are Sacramento, Orlando and San Antonio.

[cloverleaf]

Scheierman, first day of training camp:

Ha!

[phincsfan]

I think Derrick White is the biggest question here. If next year is a gap year/bridge year you have to start asking questions about what he’s going to look like in 2-4 years. He’s 30 years old coming off a career year, but he’s also a smaller guard with a lot of playoff miles on him.

Is there a Mikal Bridges level package out there for him? Or something close to it? I think it’s a very interesting conversation.

Porzingis is also an interesting conversation because his combination of size and skill is extremely hard to replace. What does his next contract look like as a result of his durability issues and it worth keeping him around hoping that you get some playoff runs out of him.

But selling high on White is probably the most difficult conversation.

I keep coming back to White as well, as after JB he will bring in the most, and if we're being honest, he's strictly just been a 3pnt shooter and okay defender for us the past couple of years.

The trade and team I see for a White trade is HOU, who has the clearest need for him, the history with Ime who wanted him in the first place, and the fact they have a young prospect in Reed Shepard and a lottery pick that they ultimately can part ways with.

Reed, #10, and Brooks for White and Hauser works. Celtics get younger, get that dog type player in Brooks, Reed was the #3 pick last year, a great shooter, and uber athlete, and we can get the best player that falls to 10. HOU improves their 3pnt shooting drastically, gets a lead guard that plays D and is a perfect compliment for their young guys, and if Hauser is in the deal, one of the best bench shooters in the game. They will also free up more time for Amen, Tari, and Cam this way. The trade just looks too perfect for both teams. If they are out of the Giannis sweepstakes, I actually like this type of trade for them over someone like KD who they have been rumored to.

The team for KP I see is CHI. They want to win now, and have some contracts that we can swap with. They have the #12 pick, which is solid, and again could work something out. Doing something like Huerter, Collins, and #12 for KP, Tillman, and #28. They get a massive upgrade in talent with KP over Huerter just for swapping picks. Celtics get 2 contracts that are easier to move and expirering next year, Huerter is a solid bench piece, and then obviously we get the 12 pick.

I wish IND wasn't a rival team, because I would be looking at Benedict MAthurin too as one of these young guys we could try to get

I would say the teams in the White/Holiday sweepstakes are Sacramento, Orlando and San Antonio.

Kings have nothing to offer. No picks and the players they have under contract is who they need to compete next season.

Orlando's financial issue is any move like Jrue or White would put them over the 2nd apron next season. I think they will do the right thing and pick up Mo's team option which would put them at 185mil.

Their other issue is health. If I'm them, I would sit tight because Suggs should make them better without having to make any drastic moves.

I like a #28 and a future pick to move to #25 though. That's doable and increases that draft value if used in another trade.

[165bows]

Idk how you get back to contender status if they jettison all their guards. They already need to replace the C position

[redslastlaugh]

I think Derrick White is the biggest question here. is there a Mikal Bridges level package out there for him? Or something close to it? I think it’s a very interesting conversation.

I keep coming back to White as well, as after JB he will bring in the most, and if we're being honest, he's strictly just been a 3pnt shooter and okay defender for us the past couple of years.

I think you definitely have to see what's out there for Derrick White.

I think the haul the Nets got for Mikhal Bridges is not realistic as a return for White. First, that was a nonrecurring event. Secondly, there is less liquidity in the market now. The teams with extra firsts to trade are primarily OKC, San Antonio, Houston, Utah and New Orleans. And multiple teams are basically tapped out on treadeable firsts.

Of the couple-three contenders with picks to spend, they're not going to make a Godfather offer for DWhite with Giannis (and Durant to a lesser degree) at an inflection point.

[Fierce1]

Get KD and let go of White, Jrue, and KP.

Forget the basketball aspect, KD with JB and potentially a Big 3 of JT, JB, and KD in 2027 will be a big hit when it comes ticket sales and TV ratings.

[cloverleaf]

Get KD and let go of White, Jrue, and KP.

Forget the basketball aspect, KD with JB and potentially a Big 3 of JT, JB, and KD in 2027 will be a big hit when it comes ticket sales and TV ratings.

Yuck. And DWhite needs to stay. (Just stop Joe from assigning him to guard Brunson from here on out.)

[phincsfan]

Get KD and let go of White, Jrue, and KP.

Forget the basketball aspect, KD with JB and potentially a Big 3 of JT, JB, and KD in 2027 will be a big hit when it comes ticket sales and TV ratings.

And what type of deal would KD expect after the 25/26 season?

I'm guessing 100mil/2yrs with the 2nd year as a player option like LeBron.

[redslastlaugh]

I was thinking some more about this idea about stepping down KP's number ($30.7 mil) without giving up assets, and I wonder if it's possible. It returns no good players to Boston but solves some financial problems without having to use draft picks to pay another team to just take his contract.

Miami seems to be done with Terry Rozier. Besides his collapsing play, he's been under investigation for gambling fraud. KP and Rozier are both expiring contracts and Miami can take a chance at rehabbing KP's health.

Step 1: Miami Trades #20 pick + Terry Rozier for Kristaps + #28 pick

Terry makes $26.6 million, so you've shaved $4 million off the books and moved up 8 spots in the draft.

Step 2: Charlotte trades Jusuf Nurkic ($19.4 million) + #33 pick for Terry Rozier + #20

Charlotte moves off of a cooked Nurkic, using their cap space to bring back Rozier to move up from #33 to #20 in 2025 draft

Lakers could use a larger cap contract than is presently on their roster to use as salary ballast to combine with a pick and bring in a talent upgrade to go with Luka. To acquire a Nic Claxton type of $24 or $25 million player, they need a larger salary than Kleber. Nurkic would serve as the match.

Step 3: Lakers trade Maxi Kleber ($11 million) + Shake Milton ($3 million) for Jusuf Nurkic

The Celtics started with #28 pick, KP ($30.7) and through these steps would project to have:
Kleber ($11)
Milton ($3)
#33

Shake Milton is retained as a depth piece for $3 million this season. Maxi Kleber's $11 million is waived and stretched over three yrs at $3.75 per year.

Kristaps $30.7 million cap hit for this season is reduced to $6.75 million. Celtics accomplished this without spending future assets, other than moving from #28 to #33 in the draft. This frees up some money to retain Luke Kornet, Al Horford or both.

Another possible avenue is to move KP in multiple step-down trades over the summer to take on guys other teams do not want but that make less than KP. And then, as the last step, use the stretch provision to spread a smaller contract over 3 yrs.

For instance you trade KP ($30) to Miami for Terry Rozier ($26)
then Terry Rozier ($26) to Charlotte for Jusuf Nurkic ($20)
and then Nurkic to Lakers for Maxi Kleber ($11), Shake Milton ($3) and Jordan Goodwin ($2.5)

[Curmudgeon]

Idk how you get back to contender status if they jettison all their guards. They already need to replace the C position

IMHO they need to fish or cut bait. Either get under the 2nd apron while making as few changes as possible, or blow it up.

A minimalist approach would trade Hauser into cap space (e.g. to Brooklyn) and let Horford and Kornet walk. Presumably Scheierman would replace Hauser. They would still have Porzingis, Queta and Tillman at center and they might be able to find another cheap big. Maybe they draft a guy like Wolf or Niederhauser and he pans out. Walsh and Davison are also expendible if necessary.

Blowing it up would be easy. Brown, White and Holiday are all marketable. The hard part would be moving Porzingis. Maybe you just move him for Vucevic and call it a day.

Come to think of it, you could trade Porzingis for Vucevic as part of a "minimalist" approach. At least Vucevic isn't hurt all the time.

[return2glory]

I'm glad none of you are the GM of this team.

Last year we won a title, everything was great. This year we got bounced in the 2nd round and it's trade everyone.

Celtics hadn't repeated since 69. They had only won 2 titles since 86. Chances of repeating this season was very slim. Especially when the off season including the Olympics. Tatum, Jrue and White hardly had any time off with the long NBA season by getting to the Finals. Then 3 of our top 4 players having to travel over seas and practice and play on the Olympic team. Then right back to training camp and preseason and the regular season. That made repeating that much tougher.

[darrendaye]

I'm glad none of you are the GM of this team.

Last year we won a title, everything was great. This year we got bounced in the 2nd round and it's trade everyone.

Celtics hadn't repeated since 69. They had only won 2 titles since 86. Chances of repeating this season was very slim. Especially when the off season including the Olympics. Tatum, Jrue and White hardly had any time off with the long NBA season by getting to the Finals. Then 3 of our top 4 players having to travel over seas and practice and play on the Olympic team. Then right back to training camp and preseason and the regular season. That made repeating that much tougher.

Unless reports are wrong, there seems to be an ultimatum to get below at least the 2nd apron next year. Assuming you're talking to the blow it up crew. I'm mulling things over like many on the board.

I think the best route is to keep Porzingis and see if you get lucky with all the health issues next year. Then he just drops from your cap. Holiday, who I value highly for his defense and heady overall play. Him defending Kat. But that's the contract that Brad almost HAS to move. I would move Pritchard before I did White and that might be a call Brad has to make.

[fallguy]

Important to remember: it's not all going to happen this summer.

We have draft 25, summer of 25, trade deadline 26, draft 26 and summer 26 before Tatum will truly be back. Brad will need all of it, I assume.

[Curmudgeon]

They need to get below the 2nd apron next year, with or without Tatum.

[ThePigeon]

I'm glad none of you are the GM of this team.

Last year we won a title, everything was great. This year we got bounced in the 2nd round and it's trade everyone.

Celtics hadn't repeated since 69. They had only won 2 titles since 86. Chances of repeating this season was very slim. Especially when the off season including the Olympics. Tatum, Jrue and White hardly had any time off with the long NBA season by getting to the Finals. Then 3 of our top 4 players having to travel over seas and practice and play on the Olympic team. Then right back to training camp and preseason and the regular season. That made repeating that much tougher.

2nd apron dictates that we need to shed salary hence the trades
Now that JT is injured it adds more complexity

I would love to run it back (maybe just replace KP with someone that actually plays), but its not my money

I expect a trade involving one of KP, Jrue, Hauser, White or a combination - for financial reasons

[Jellybeans]

If Nurk or Vucevic is starting C next season im not watching it

[cl2117]

Not suggesting we go down this route, but this is my total tear down plan:

BOS in: #3, Dame Lillard, Daniel Gafford (expiring),  Adem Bona, Julian Phillips, Jevon Carter (expiring) 
BOS out: Jaylen Brown, Kristaps Porzingis (expiring), Jrue Holiday,  Xavier Tillman (expiring)

Celtics reset their salary cap situation (shave $39m off the books and easily get below both aprons and the tax) and go for a single year tank with the aim to bounce back in '26/27 when both Tatum and Dame have 100% recovered. 

Draft at #3, #28 and #32. Play all your rookie scale guys the kind of minutes that they never would normally get and hope that one or two can develop into a viable rotation piece. Likely end up with a top 5-10 pick the following year to add to the mix as well. Look to either extend Gafford as the C of the future or trade him mid-season for assets (LA for Knecht/Maxi for example). Come back the following year with:

Lillard/ Pritchard
White/ Scheierman 
Bailey (drafted #3)/ Hauser/ 
Tatum/ Walsh/ Phillips
Gafford/ Queta/ Bona

#28, #32 and a lotto pick from 2026 added in. Dame will be expiring,C's will have most of their future picks and be below the 2nd apron. They could immediately try and start wheeling and dealing again by adding picks to Lillard's huge expiring salary or give that Tatum/Dame duo a year and then re-look at everything with a much cleaner cap situation. 

PHI in: Jaylen Brown, Kyle Kuzma, Xavier Tillman (expiring)
PHI out: #3, Paul George, Andre Drummond (expiring), Eric Gordon (expiring), Adem Bona

Philly trade in #3 for win now pieces and hope to get a healthy year out of Embiid in the near term. Maxey/Brown/Embiid trio with the likes of McCain, Kuz, Oubre could be a problem in a now wide-open Eastern Conference. 

Philly adds $13.5m to their cap here but should still be a below the apron team.

MIL in: Paul George, Klay Thompson, Nikola Vucevic (expiring), Andre Drummond (expiring)
MIL out: Dame Lillard, Kyle Kuzma

Milwaukee take on longer-term money to get guys who will be able to give Giannis a chance next year. While none of the names they're bringing in are all that exciting at this stage in their careers, with very limited options to add to their roster and Dame likely out for the whole year, you're swapping Kuz for PG, Klay, Vuc and Drummond. Ignoring the money owed to those guys that's still a pretty solid overhaul for this team. 

Milwaukee adds $18.3m to their cap here but should still be a below the apron team.

DAL in: Jrue Holiday, Eric Gordon (expiring)
DAL out: Daniel Gafford (expiring), Klay Thompson (expiring), Brandon Williams (expiring)

Mavs take a chance on Jrue. Nico stays true to his "defense wins championships" mantra but also adds the perennial frontrunner for best teammate in the league with Holiday (underrated aspect given Flagg is entering a Kyrie/AD locker room). Eric Gordon comes along for the ride as a cheaper alternative to Klay. 

Dallas save about $900k here.

CHI in: Kristaps Porzingis (expiring), Brandon Williams (expiring)
CHI out: Nikola Vucevic (expiring), Julian Phillips, Jevon Carter (expiring)

Chicago swaps Vuc/Carter for KP at the low low price of Jualian Phillips and eating Brandon Williams and they only add $200k to their cap here.

Boston get a clean cap re-set and a high pick
Philly get a veteran star for #3 and PG
Milwaukee get a lifeline in terms of keeping Giannis around 
Dallas get a well rounded guard to hold things down next to Kyrie
Chicago get an unreliable upgrade at C for expirings and last year's 2nd round pick 

[shi-woo]

I'm glad none of you are the GM of this team.

Last year we won a title, everything was great. This year we got bounced in the 2nd round and it's trade everyone.

Celtics hadn't repeated since 69. They had only won 2 titles since 86. Chances of repeating this season was very slim. Especially when the off season including the Olympics. Tatum, Jrue and White hardly had any time off with the long NBA season by getting to the Finals. Then 3 of our top 4 players having to travel over seas and practice and play on the Olympic team. Then right back to training camp and preseason and the regular season. That made repeating that much tougher.

Because unlike most contenders that get bounced early, we aren't projecting 5 months out till the start of the season, but 2 years out due to the Tatum injury. Jrue will be 37 by then and probably not that guy. Al will be retirered, and KP won't be on the team regardless if we trade him or not.

Brown/White/Pritchard are the only dudes who might hold relatively similar values on and off the court by the time Tatum is ready to lace em up, and most people expect 2 of those dudes to stick around even with the Brown speculation.

It makes no sense to carry this team around and just pray for a 44 win miracle next season with 1/3rd of your cap sitting on the bench. We know how that looks, go see TMacs Magic teams with Grant Hill, and the final years of DRose and Amares Bulls/Knicks years. It looks sloppy and bad, and those seasons just add heart break as fans imagine what could be, but know it's real. Every game would be like GM 5 and 6 against the Knicks where you know the outcome even when you win.

I much rather watch a team of young or semi young players learning and fighting, getting a top pick, and then going into it a year later like we did in 2017/18 than watching this team literally melt from the inside out slowly. I would much rather bank on Brad having another offseason like he did in 2023/24 with getting KP and Jrue than hoping this team still has the magic and juice to compete with the same team (which we know can't be the same given the injury and the apron...)

I hope Celtic fans aren't delusional in thinking that this team is fine where it's at, major major changes are needed up and down the roster.