How Cooper Flagg physically compares to similar big wings/forwards

[GregOden]

The Pippen comparison via NBA Draft.net is pretty close to Flagg. But Pippen was more athletic and had one of the longest wingspan at 7'4 while being 6'7 bare foot. Kawhi Leonard has 7'3 wingspan for comparison.

There are conflicting reports about Pippen's wingspan. DraftExpress has it at 7'0", which I believe came from a newspaper source during his draft year. I believe it to be accurate. The 7'4"measurement is hype, just like Dwight Howard's 7'8" listing in a 2006 Sports Illustrated article.

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7'0 seems too low for Pippen though, just from eye test he's always looked very long and rangy, and in photos with Jordan (6'11 wingspan) he's noticeably taller and longer than Jordan including his arm length. Jordan had slightly wider shoulders, but not enough IMO that it would make their wingspan that close.

[GregOden]

There are conflicting reports about Pippen's wingspan. DraftExpress has it at 7'0", which I believe came from a newspaper source during his draft year. I believe it to be accurate. The 7'4"measurement is hype, just like Dwight Howard's 7'8" listing in a 2006 Sports Illustrated article.

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DX never had Pippen's measurement at college.

The 7'4 came during his NBA years... and it's not hard to accept considering the eye test and Leonard has 7'3 and Pippen and Leonard look like comic characters with their shoulder and arm length ratio to their height.

Dwight Howard has 7'6 wingspan... never saw the 7'8 one.

I've researched wingspan a lot and 7'4 for Pippen is more believable for me.

It's an exaggerated listing. The Chicago Sports Museum has an interactive exhibit where you can compare with Pippen's 7'4" wingspan. The only problem is that Scottie doesn't even measure up. He looks like he has a 7'0" span. Don't believe the WWE size shenanigans of the '80s and '90s.

Looks like his fingers are going towards the wall so they aren't stretching fully forward. Look at where that bottom bar is, it's set at 7'2, and Pippen is just slightly shy of it. If he were to straighten his hands and fingers, assuming that thing is correctly calibrated, it looks like his wingspan be around 7'2.5 or so.

[FrodoBaggins]

The Pippen comparison via NBA Draft.net is pretty close to Flagg. But Pippen was more athletic and had one of the longest wingspan at 7'4 while being 6'7 bare foot. Kawhi Leonard has 7'3 wingspan for comparison.

There are conflicting reports about Pippen's wingspan. DraftExpress has it at 7'0", which I believe came from a newspaper source during his draft year. I believe it to be accurate. The 7'4"measurement is hype, just like Dwight Howard's 7'8" listing in a 2006 Sports Illustrated article.

Read on Twitter

7'0 seems too low for Pippen though, just from eye test he's always looked very long and rangy, and in photos with Jordan (6'11 wingspan) he's noticeably taller and longer than Jordan including his arm length. Jordan had slightly wider shoulders, but not enough IMO that it would make their wingspan that close.

The eye test is often wrong. Mikal Bridges looks very long, and yet he only measured out at 7'1". And that was after rumors of a 7'6" span. We have an actual photo of Scottie comparing his wingspan to an exaggerated 7'4" interactive exhibit and he comes up several inches short.

[GregOden]

There are conflicting reports about Pippen's wingspan. DraftExpress has it at 7'0", which I believe came from a newspaper source during his draft year. I believe it to be accurate. The 7'4"measurement is hype, just like Dwight Howard's 7'8" listing in a 2006 Sports Illustrated article.

Read on Twitter

7'0 seems too low for Pippen though, just from eye test he's always looked very long and rangy, and in photos with Jordan (6'11 wingspan) he's noticeably taller and longer than Jordan including his arm length. Jordan had slightly wider shoulders, but not enough IMO that it would make their wingspan that close.

The eye test is often wrong. Mikal Bridges looks very long, and yet he only measured out at 7'1". And that was after rumors of a 7'6" span. We have an actual photo of Scottie comparing his wingspan to an exaggerated 7'4" interactive exhibit and he comes up several inches short.

Several inches short doesn't prove he has a 7'0 wingspan

[FrodoBaggins]

7'0 seems too low for Pippen though, just from eye test he's always looked very long and rangy, and in photos with Jordan (6'11 wingspan) he's noticeably taller and longer than Jordan including his arm length. Jordan had slightly wider shoulders, but not enough IMO that it would make their wingspan that close.

The eye test is often wrong. Mikal Bridges looks very long, and yet he only measured out at 7'1". And that was after rumors of a 7'6" span. We have an actual photo of Scottie comparing his wingspan to an exaggerated 7'4" interactive exhibit and he comes up several inches short.

Several inches short doesn't prove he has a 7'0 wingspan

Pippen, who has a wingspan of 84 inches, could team with the long-armed Sellers and quick Jordan when the Bulls played pressure defense.

Chicago Tribune, June 23, 1987

[Sane]

So basically if you take Lebron out of the comparison, there are no real stars in this size range?

I think you need to readjust your definition if Tatum isn't classified as a star. You can also throw Pippen, Kawhi, Melo, Pierce, McGrady, and Dr. J into the general mix as well. I hope you're not implying a ceiling of potential due to these anthropometric measurements. That would be incredibly stupid.

Lebron was a good 20-30lbs more muscular than everyone else on that list. That's a different tier. The rest of the comparisons are like +/- 10lbs from each other. I don't even understand why include Lebron in there.

I think you're doing too much here. Taking things too literally/being overly pedantic. Weight changes over time, and these are broad groupings ranging from 204 to 245 pounds. 3 out of the 4 measurements are dead-on, so LBJ is worth a mention.

Excuse you, the inclusion of Lebron in that list is a total aberration. It's totally irrational, Flagg is simply not in Lebron's tier going by these measurements.

It's so oddly grouped. Everyone is 209 to 221 then there's two aberrations:

Tatum at 204
Lebron at 245 who's way stronger than everyone there and still one of the fastest

Everyone in between is not a star. Just regular dudes who would make good teammates for Tatums and Lebrons.

Flagg will be a good player but it has nothing to do with these measurements. These "groupings" are poorly created. Flagg is not physically similar to Lebron. Why even set him up to fail like that? Lebron is a historically significant physical specimen. Just makes the experiment lose credibility.

"Over pedantic" lol why don't you throw Shaq in there too? Since Shawn Kemp and Charles Barkley ate their way to 300 lbs nothing is impossible haha don't be overly pedantic

[johannking]

With the amount of ground you cover in today's game you absolutely do not want to bulk up unless you have the natural build for it. LeBron at 245 would be close to his natural weight.

[FrodoBaggins]

So basically if you take Lebron out of the comparison, there are no real stars in this size range?

I think you need to readjust your definition if Tatum isn't classified as a star. You can also throw Pippen, Kawhi, Melo, Pierce, McGrady, and Dr. J into the general mix as well. I hope you're not implying a ceiling of potential due to these anthropometric measurements. That would be incredibly stupid.

Lebron was a good 20-30lbs more muscular than everyone else on that list. That's a different tier. The rest of the comparisons are like +/- 10lbs from each other. I don't even understand why include Lebron in there.

I think you're doing too much here. Taking things too literally/being overly pedantic. Weight changes over time, and these are broad groupings ranging from 204 to 245 pounds. 3 out of the 4 measurements are dead-on, so LBJ is worth a mention.

Excuse you, the inclusion of Lebron in that list is a total aberration. It's totally irrational, Flagg is simply not in Lebron's tier going by these measurements.

It's so oddly grouped. Everyone is 209 to 221 then there's two aberrations:

Tatum at 204
Lebron at 245 who's way stronger than everyone there and still one of the fastest

Everyone in between is not a star. Just regular dudes who would make good teammates for Tatums and Lebrons.

Flagg will be a good player but it has nothing to do with these measurements. These "groupings" are poorly created. Flagg is not physically similar to Lebron. Why even set him up to fail like that? Lebron is a historically significant physical specimen. Just makes the experiment lose credibility.

"Over pedantic" lol why don't you throw Shaq in there too? Since Shawn Kemp and Charles Barkley ate their way to 300 lbs nothing is impossible haha don't be overly pedantic

It's not irrational, you just lack awareness. Re-read the thread from beginning to end and think about why you're the only poster with such an awkward interpretation.

[RAPSinCAPS]

NGL I thought he was bigger

[tsherkin]

Yeah, agreed. The comparison gets more accurate if you add an offensive upgrade qualifier like George Karl did:

Yeah, I guess. But even then, it feels forced to me. It looks to me like Flagg has more reach, less quickness and a shorter vertical. And he's likely to be a heavier guy than Pippen, with more power to throw around as he matures physically.

Physically I was making the comparison as per the thread topic.

Sure, I get that. But even then, it doesn't feel super on-point, and does feel quite forced (not just from you, I mean in general; it's like people are trying to compel a Pippen analog, and it just doesn't seem the best parallel to me).

Shooting ability and skill set wise, Pippen's first 2 years vary different to his peak years. Pippen got better and better every season adding skills and polishing his fundamentals.

Not to a degree I consider meaningful. He was still a limp noodle at the foul line with no reliable range. He was better later on in his career, for sure, but a lot of things didn't much change. He wasn't a good scorer against higher-end defenses. Pippen was a very good player, but halfcourt scoring was not a huge strength of his, especially because he was a weak shooter.

[FrodoBaggins]

Here's how the guys in the OP compare to all NBA Draft Combine historically-measured SFs in a percentile-based composite score of barefoot height, standing reach, wingspan, and weight.

Flagg: 75.8% (18.5 draft age)
LBJ: 81.6% (18.5 draft age)
Smith: 72.3% (18.53 draft age)
Tatum: 57.7% (19.29 draft age)
PG: 70.0% (20.12 draft age)
Jalen Johnson: 69.1% (19.5 draft age)
Aaron Gordon: 68.9% (18.75 draft age)

Consider the draft age and the weight measurements. Tatum's measurements weren't done at the NBA Draft Combine, so his number may be understated a little.

[LakerLegend]

How is he similar/different to Tatum?

[FrodoBaggins]

How is he similar/different to Tatum?

Physically? At the same age + at full maxed-out potential? Cooper is stronger, sturdier/heavier/more robust, wider/broader-built, and more athletic in general. Not worth getting more granular with the athleticism because he clears Jayson in pretty much all aspects.

Skill-wise, at the same age? Cooper does everything better except certain aspects of ball handling. And it wasn't like Flagg's ball handling was bad; it was functional and effective. Lead ball handler/playmaker/on-ball creator for the #1 offense in D1 NCAAM basketball. 27 AST%, 11 TOV%, 4.4 apg, 2.2 topg, 2:1 ratio. Much like LBJ, he can look stiff when performing certain moves, but he makes up for it by using his strength and big body to shield the ball.

[cupcakesnake]

Josh Smith's body worked well as a post up player, he had a strong base as mentioned above. I don't see that for Flagg, which is not a big deal considering how post ups have gone out of style but even with similar measurements I think their physical strengths are much different.

He's reallllllly young and has broad shoulders. I think long term he'll be able to bang.

[Ray Donovan]

Pippen is one of the BEST on ball defenders ever, don't see Flagg getting there

[bucknut]

How is he similar/different to Tatum?

Physically? At the same age + at full maxed-out potential? Cooper is stronger, sturdier/heavier/more robust, wider/broader-built, and more athletic in general. Not worth getting more granular with the athleticism because he clears Jayson in pretty much all aspects.

Skill-wise, at the same age? Cooper does everything better except certain aspects of ball handling. And it wasn't like Flagg's ball handling was bad; it was functional and effective. Lead ball handler/playmaker/on-ball creator for the #1 offense in D1 NCAAM basketball. 27 AST%, 11 TOV%, 4.4 apg, 2.2 topg, 2:1 ratio. Much like LBJ, he can look stiff when performing certain moves, but he makes up for it by using his strength and big body to shield the ball.

Maybe 40 year old lebron, not prime lebron. Never saw lebron missing layups or slipping like i saw this year.

fluidity of athleticism doesn't even compare to tatum and I think it will limit him from being a #1 like a george or tatum. No one mentioned in the thread how he has slipped and fallen over his own feet while trying to cut to the basket, at quite a high rate, including more in crunch time then anyone maybe ever. limits his ceiling and levels of creation. He cannot cut sharp. Has more mechanical athleticism; also think affect his perimeter shotmaking. relies so much on using his frame and athleticism to score - similar to aaron gordon just finding buckets around the rim come easy but can come out little bit further. Great knack to shotput the ball with big stride or angle with a shoulder from foul line and in. Biggest key be his ballhandling and perimeter shotmaking with the ball being more then just a here and there thing like you see with gordon. I really don't think he is going to be a creative shotmaker that most elite guys have.

a josh smith/aaron gordon/pippen/kirilenko combo makes sense

[Johnny Firpo]

Pippen is one of the BEST on ball defenders ever, don't see Flagg getting there

It was more of a physical comparison, yeah, he definitely won't be as good of man defender than Pip was. Should be better in other areas though. We'll see.

[Handlez]

Skill and basketball IQ are what will set him apart.

He just understands the game.

And he's much stronger than you'd imagine. He can manipulate defenders trying to be overly physical and use their exaggerated contact to get them out of position.

[Andri]

Trying to extrapolate from the combine measurements is fun and somehow relevant, but often inaccurate as a predictor of success. And more so for a prospect like Flagg IMO.

However, every top prospect is going through the scrutiny. Luka was unathletic, Curry small and fragile, and so. We even had VW topics this season still calling him a bust.

That said, I think Flagg has the physical tools to fulfill his potential, where his skills and IQ are what could put him over the expectations.