Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Knicks opening at -150 fav is interesting, I would have thought closer to even maybe slight edge to the Pacers.

The Knicks are pretty stacked, I think that's accurate. One thing is that Thibs is not a champ as HC and Carlisle is. Carlisle is one of the better spoilers in the league and Thibs has build a lot of favourites on paper that fizzle out.

i think they match up well against the Pacers.

[sidsid]

The only KAT minutes that look on balance positive are when Mitch is playing, which then limits their other advantages. Wild that you can speculate that they lost the Randle/Donte trade which may be the difference of an outside shot at a 'chip (I still think you're looking at a Butler Heat finals situation. Not actually that realistic of a chance).

[tsherkin]

Siakam on the other hand people wanted out because apparently he was holding Scottie back and Scottie was apparently the much better player…

There's a take which aged like a water-logged corpse in the summer heat...

[WaltFrazier]

If you watch the press conference with Tyrese Halliburton and Pascal, you can really see that Tyrese respects Pascal, and is open to his guidance.

I think a common narrative was that Pascal was selfish and didn't fit in with Scottie. I'm beginning to think that perhaps Scottie didn't respect Pascal enough, and wasn't open to his guidance in the same way that Tyrese is.

So perhaps we've been asking the wrong questions. Maybe the real point is that Pascal is great with young players, and it's one of the central reasons the Pacers are in the Eastern Conference finals for the second year in a row.

Maybe Scottie needs to learn to take feedback? Perhaps if he did, then. Scottie would have been a better player and our team with both Scottie and Pascal would be excelling right now?

https://youtu.be/PuVR4wPnfeg?si=cOKX0CLrF4zbns0g

Jeeez. This Pacers team fits Pascal just better than the trash Masai builded. There was never stuff going on between Siakam and Barnes. Casual Raptors stan being overdramatic.

If Masai had gotten Turner instead of Poeltl, the team dynamics offensively would have looked much better. he was available but noone moved on him.

Was Turner available though? Once they traded away Sabonis it didn't make sense to lose Turner too

[Tor_Raps]

A reminder that Siakam wanted to stay here his whole career while OG was the one who wanted out reportedly. Still love both but this might make lean Siakam more lol

[ciueli]

Jeeez. This Pacers team fits Pascal just better than the trash Masai builded. There was never stuff going on between Siakam and Barnes. Casual Raptors stan being overdramatic.

If Masai had gotten Turner instead of Poeltl, the team dynamics offensively would have looked much better. he was available but noone moved on him.

Was Turner available though? Once they traded away Sabonis it didn't make sense to lose Turner too

There were a few years where they made Turner available but wanted two first round picks for him. No team was willing to give that up for Turner, though in hindsight it would have been a better use of 2 FRPs for us than trading down for Koloko and trading for Jak.

[sidsid]

If Masai had gotten Turner instead of Poeltl, the team dynamics offensively would have looked much better. he was available but noone moved on him.

Was Turner available though? Once they traded away Sabonis it didn't make sense to lose Turner too

There were a few years where they made Turner available but wanted two first round picks for him. No team was willing to give that up for Turner, though in hindsight it would have been a better use of 2 FRPs for us than trading down for Koloko and trading for Jak.

This was the same for Jak. Reducing protections on the one pick is what got it done. Not sure if this really would have happened even if you brought it down to top 2 protection or something, but there was a time where I think a deal around moving Fred for him (when the Pacers were feeling out a trade for Hayward) would have been possible.

I hated the idea of keeping Fred or trading for a C even at that time, but with the benefit of hindsight and the ensuing debacle...could an FVVless Turner team with Barnes and Siakam playmaking through the middle and OG getting the supplementary benefits on offense have changed the entire outcome and kept the vision together? Maybe still end up tanking a year with the new dynamic learning on the go leading to another good lotto pick to add to the core?

I hate the fact that contemplating a handful of role player trades somehow could have this much impact, but that's the hand that Masai dealt for this team.

[ciueli]

Was Turner available though? Once they traded away Sabonis it didn't make sense to lose Turner too

There were a few years where they made Turner available but wanted two first round picks for him. No team was willing to give that up for Turner, though in hindsight it would have been a better use of 2 FRPs for us than trading down for Koloko and trading for Jak.

This was the same for Jak. Reducing protections on the one pick is what got it done. Not sure if this really would have happened even if you brought it down to top 2 protection or something, but there was a time where I think a deal around moving Fred for him (when the Pacers were feeling out a trade for Hayward) would have been possible.

I hated the idea of keeping Fred or trading for a C even at that time, but with the benefit of hindsight and the ensuing debacle...could an FVVless Turner team with Barnes and Siakam playmaking through the middle and OG getting the supplementary benefits on offense have changed the entire outcome and kept the vision together? Maybe still end up tanking a year with the new dynamic learning on the go leading to another good lotto pick to add to the core?

I hate the fact that contemplating a handful of role player trades somehow could have this much impact, but that's the hand that Masai dealt for this team.

With hindsight I think we can see that there wasn't really a good path forward to building around the Pascal/OG/Fred core considering all three wound up getting max contracts from different teams. There's lots of little missed opportunities over the years that put us in a bad position, trading Norm for Gary was one, so was taking Flynn over Bane, trading for Jak still hasn't really paid off as we've yet to make the playoffs with him on the roster.

Given everything, we're actually not in a terrible place right now as the depth has been rebuilt a bit even without lottery luck. A lot is dependant on whether Ingram can stay healthy and if some of our young players can take the next step, but it's not the worst place to be especially in the weaker conference where we should expect to make the playoffs next season.

[Boogie!]

A reminder that Siakam wanted to stay here his whole career while OG was the one who wanted out reportedly. Still love both but this might make lean Siakam more lol

Siakam should’ve retired a raptor. They should’ve found a way to build with him… for years this organization prioritized the wrong guys until it was too late.

[bballsparkin]

It wasn't about giving up on Siakam. It was to rebuild from the bottom up and start over. Siakam is too late in his career to waste his time doing that. And he wanted the extra year for his last huge payout. Which I suppose makes him possibly harder to trade? MONEY. They maxed out. Shoulda kept Norm. Well ****, that's called water under the bridge. Definitely woulda been nice to get a pick for Fred but they decided to run it back one more time. And then Houston wisely used their cap space to back the Brinks truck right up to Steady Freddies home. OG wanted NYC and it looks to be a great fit. I'm happy to watch them battle it out while I wait for my team's big day: the 2025 NBA draft.

As to whole Scottie thing. He was made out to be the "star" because of a thing called marketing. Same story with DD, Bosh, and Siakam before him.

[Tripod]

If only people talked about the great Championship team as much as they do the FVV, Siakam OG era....lol.

[Dennis 37]

A reminder that Siakam wanted to stay here his whole career while OG was the one who wanted out reportedly. Still love both but this might make lean Siakam more lol

Fred had to go. OG wanted out. If OG had told Masai he wanted to stay, he would still be here and probably with Pascal.

As for Scottie vs others, I only saw a problem with Fred. No one else.

[Duffman100]

If only people talked about the great Championship team as much as they do the FVV, Siakam OG era....lol.

"Stop living in the past" I was told

[Clutch0z24]

Watch on YouTube

This is really really bad for the Nuggets man....Idk if they have a chance with a banged up MPJ and no Gordon...

[Tripod]

Yeah that sucks for Denver. Pretty crazy:

Tatum for Bos
Curry for GSW
Now Gordon for DEN

Injuries are certainly part of the game.

[Son Goku 25]

A reminder that Siakam wanted to stay here his whole career while OG was the one who wanted out reportedly. Still love both but this might make lean Siakam more lol

Fred had to go. OG wanted out. If OG had told Masai he wanted to stay, he would still be here and probably with Pascal.

As for Scottie vs others, I only saw a problem with Fred. No one else.

Fred was the problem.. Scottie was still young but you could see some of his bad tendencies I just hope he becomes the next Lowry for us.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

Great game right now!

[Duffman100]

Cheering hard for Denver but don't see them winning.

[Son Goku 25]

Knicks gonna win it all imo.. they got the most firepower, depth and good enough defense plus big shot makers. They seem fairly fresh too.

If it's pacers vs the west then the west likely win it but if it's vs Knicks I think they go all the way.

[Duffman100]

Jokic struggling to seal him a guy is a problem