How does Denver retool in the offseason (Who wants Murray/MPJ?)

[MoneyTalks41890]

MPJr, Nnaji, Saric for Paul George

[Raps in 4]

Denver is stuck with this core. If Jokic wants to win another title, he needs to ask for a trade.

[zimpy27]

MPJ and Murray in a crucial game 7

6 points at the half



Edit- to clarify that’s 6 COMBINED

MPJ at least has injury as an excuse, but yes, he's been horrifically bad this series apart from one game.

But let's highlight this.

Jokic is 5/9 and has been murdering it at the line.

The REST of Denver is 20/54 (37.03% FG), even with Braun shooting 7/13 and AG shooting 2/4. MPJ is 3/8 (0/4 from 3), Murray is 5/15, Watson is 0/5, Westie is 2/5, Strawther is 1/4.

It's so, so bad.

Scoring efficiency between OKC and Nuggets was roughly the same for first 3 quarters when the 20-pt lead amassed.

The main difference between the teams was TOs. Denver just couldn't force turnovers nor could they look after the ball this game.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

Number one job for the Nuggets is to not overreact. Neither Murray nor MPJ have a lot of trade value at the moment, and I'm wouldn't be in a hurry to attach anything of value to them.

The only thing of value I'd consider attaching at all right now is Braun - because he's only got a year left and if the brass thinks he's played himself into too big a contract, now's the time to sell high.

They should really just focus on building a real bench by any means possible. Give this same starting five a decent bench and make the team 10-deep and you'd get somewhere.

You'd probably have better luck moving MPJ next February when he's closer to being a one-year rental.

[Raps in 4]

Kevin Durant isn't going to happen. Denver has no draft picks to offer.

Maybe the Hawks will want to give up Trae Young, but if so, why would they want MPJ or Murray in return? Those guys are just a worse version of Trae with bad contracts.

The best Denver is going to be able to do is swap for some other teams overpaid trash in hopes that simply having something different will unlock one more run.

In actuality, we are looking at a Bucks situation here, because Denver is literally in the worst position out of any 30 NBA teams to add talent to the roster.

Booth and company really blew it.

I get that Denver and Milwaukee are bottom-tier markets, but Booth and Horst both lucked out into having generational talents on their rosters. It really isn't that hard to construct a winning team around them. And yet they completely failed.

[tsherkin]

Scoring efficiency between OKC and Nuggets was roughly the same for first 3 quarters when the 20-pt lead amassed.

The main difference between the teams was TOs. Denver just couldn't force turnovers nor could they look after the ball this game.

Williams had a huge performance, no question. Denver was doing well for a while, and then fell apart at the end of the first quarter, and OKC never looked back. Westbrook was a disaster. And of course, OKC was also doing a great job on D. Caruso was getting away with a lot, but that should have been manageable. Unfortunately, once again, Denver couldn't capitalize offensively.

Like I said, it was pretty tight, and then OKC ripped off 7 straight field goals largely unanswered, with a couple breakaway dunks, and that was the end of that chapter.

[TheGOATRises007]

Not sure Denver can do anything.

If they can get KD while giving up MPJ, I guess that's 1 route, but I highly doubt Phoenix wants MPJ.

[tsherkin]

I get that Denver and Milwaukee are bottom-tier markets, but Booth and Horst both lucked out into having generational talents on their rosters. It really isn't that hard to construct a winning team around them. And yet they completely failed.

I mean, they didn't. Both of them have several 50+-win seasons as a title.

It's important to frame this correctly. What they have NOT done is assemble dynastic talent around their generational star, so they struggle to compete on a perennial basis. That is something much harder to do. Dallas did the same thing with Dirk. He only made two Finals appearances and won a single title because of that challenge. Cleveland spectacularly failed Lebron the first time around, prompting him to reauthor the basic approach to winning.

[BigGargamel]

If Denver could turn either MPJ or Murray into another starting caliber shooter and solid backup big man, and maybe a future 1st (wishful thinking, I know), I think that might be good enough of an off-season. Denver is only 2 years away from winning a title, and took both losing series to 7 games. A couple things go the other way and we are looking at 3 straight WCF's. So it's not as bad as it may seem,I dunno. I'm pretty bummed right now and it's hard to think rationally.

Trading Braun would really hurt, but he's going to get paid after next year, and the sad fact of the new NBA is that no front office is going to pay a guy like him 20 mill a year plus the tax cost it would take to have five big contracts on the books. Might have to bite the bullet and move him. That's the current landscape.

That's why I made the thread about it being so hard to form a dynasty. Having one superstar isn't enough, but it's so hard to build that team around him with the tax implications.

[rolling_91]

Their core of Jocic, Gordon, Murray and Braun is very good. They need to add 1 or 2 good jump shooters. And some internal development from Strawther and Watson. I’m bullish on them

[Raps in 4]

Their core of Jocic, Gordon, Murray and Braun is very good. They need to add 1 or 2 good jump shooters. And some internal development from Strawther and Watson. I’m bullish on them

They need depth, but they also need a consistent secondary scorer. Murray can win you a playoff series, but he can also lose you a playoff series. They don't need someone who can reach Murray's highs, they just need someone who won't have such crazy variance.

[Teen Girl Squad]

I get that Denver and Milwaukee are bottom-tier markets, but Booth and Horst both lucked out into having generational talents on their rosters. It really isn't that hard to construct a winning team around them. And yet they completely failed.

I mean, they didn't. Both of them have several 50+-win seasons as a title.

It's important to frame this correctly. What they have NOT done is assemble dynastic talent around their generational star, so they struggle to compete on a perennial basis. That is something much harder to do. Dallas did the same thing with Dirk. He only made two Finals appearances and won a single title because of that challenge. Cleveland spectacularly failed Lebron the first time around, prompting him to reauthor the basic approach to winning.

People have gotten to used to the idea that every star needs to have a dynasty level run or else is a roster building fail and even then there are always 56,000 asterisks attached. The internet has just concentrated all of the people who perpetually complain no matter what happens. If OKC goes on a run they'll just say the league is weak and no one plays defense. There isn't a winning formula for these people in the long run.

[tsherkin]

Their core of Jocic, Gordon, Murray and Braun is very good. They need to add 1 or 2 good jump shooters.

No, that is very much not what they need. They need health, and they need a real slasher so, so, SOOOOOOOOO badly. They have shooters. Almost all they have besides Jokic is shooters. They need to be healthy, and they need someone who can pressure the defense with drives effectively and consistently.

[Castle Black]

They don't. Nobody is trading for Murray's insanely bloated Max contract and MPJ literally has negative value right now.

Denver made this mess and unfortunately they're going to have to lie in it. And Jokić is likely too loyal to ask for a trade, so his prime is going to be wasted on bad teams. Tragic.

[Raps in 4]

I get that Denver and Milwaukee are bottom-tier markets, but Booth and Horst both lucked out into having generational talents on their rosters. It really isn't that hard to construct a winning team around them. And yet they completely failed.

I mean, they didn't. Both of them have several 50+-win seasons as a title.

It's important to frame this correctly. What they have NOT done is assemble dynastic talent around their generational star, so they struggle to compete on a perennial basis. That is something much harder to do. Dallas did the same thing with Dirk. He only made two Finals appearances and won a single title because of that challenge. Cleveland spectacularly failed Lebron the first time around, prompting him to reauthor the basic approach to winning.

People have gotten to used to the idea that every star needs to have a dynasty level run or else is a roster building fail and even then there are always 56,000 asterisks attached. The internet has just concentrated all of the people who perpetually complain no matter what happens. If OKC goes on a run they'll just say the league is weak and no one plays defense. There isn't a winning formula for these people in the long run.

The logic that "titles > all" has been the logic of NBA pundits since the days of Russell and Wilt.

[sp6r=underrated]

Their only hope is getting lucky late in the draft as San Antonio did with Manu and Parker. MPJ has negative value around the league given how poor he has played. Murray's value is at a net low given how poor his last two post-seasons have gone.

[Teen Girl Squad]

I mean, they didn't. Both of them have several 50+-win seasons as a title.

It's important to frame this correctly. What they have NOT done is assemble dynastic talent around their generational star, so they struggle to compete on a perennial basis. That is something much harder to do. Dallas did the same thing with Dirk. He only made two Finals appearances and won a single title because of that challenge. Cleveland spectacularly failed Lebron the first time around, prompting him to reauthor the basic approach to winning.

People have gotten to used to the idea that every star needs to have a dynasty level run or else is a roster building fail and even then there are always 56,000 asterisks attached. The internet has just concentrated all of the people who perpetually complain no matter what happens. If OKC goes on a run they'll just say the league is weak and no one plays defense. There isn't a winning formula for these people in the long run.

The logic that "titles > all" has been the logic of NBA pundits since the days of Russell and Wilt.

Titles still mattered pre MJ/pre internet. In the internet era, the only championship that matters is the next one. No one even cares about the team winning the current title after like 24 hours.

[Saints14]

For better or worse they’re tied to Murray, and Gordon and Braun are championship caliber role players. But for the love of god they need to upgrade MPJ somehow

[sp6r=underrated]

Their core of Jocic, Gordon, Murray and Braun is very good. They need to add 1 or 2 good jump shooters. And some internal development from Strawther and Watson. I’m bullish on them

Their core is really bad. The belief that they already had a secondary star in Murray along with the view MPJ had great potential has crippled this franchise.

[MrGoat]

Trade Jokic to the Lakers for a Reaves package and their other first round pick

-Adam Silver