How does Denver retool in the offseason (Who wants Murray/MPJ?)

[JDR720]

I think the move is to trade MPJ or Murray for 2-3 quality role players. Their big weakness if they have basically no depth because they haven't drafted well.

[syrus3]

I think Nikola has to ask to be traded to a contender. It’s time to break this team up.

Donovan Mitchell and Shai should not be on teams with a lot of depth. Both are pretenders.

[sp6r=underrated]

They really just have to hope one of the young teams ready to take the next step, or a no longer young team realizing they’re headed for treadmill status will be desperate enough to trade actual assets for Murray.

I think they just have to bite the bullet with MPJ. I don’t think any GM is dumb enough to give up assets to get him and Denver just doesn’t have the assets to add onto him to unload him.

But that’s the thing, that would just get them out of one of their bad contracts. They’re still stuck with the fact they have zero depth. When Russ, Peyton Watson, and Julian Strawther are your 6th-8th guys, your roster better be ridiculously top heavy. And this Denver roster is nowhere close to being top heavy outside of Jokic.

I do think this Denver’s roster, lack of assets, and bad contracts is too much of a horrible combination to build another contending roster around Jokic. I think we’re at the point where if Jokic wants to win another ring, it won’t be at Denver.

That's my assessment. Murray's lack of development and the horrific MPJ contract just killed the ability of this club to build real title contenders. As a Knicks fan I remember Isiah's fetish for scoring PGs. He would have loved Murray but even Isiah would be down on him at this point. For all the talk of playoff Murray, he has 2 bad playoff runs for his 2 good ones and he missed anther couple due to injuries. And you summarized MPJ well, no one is dumb enough to give you anything in return for him.

In addition to what you said above management has a reputation for cheapness Cheap owners are usually fine with clubs like the current Nuggets. High 40-low 50 win teams that can make it to the 2nd round can sell tickets. And when you have a HOFer you can sucker casuals into thinking you're a real contender. I doubt the owner cares much but even if he is okay with a rebuild on the fly that takes time. And Jokic is already 30. Will he still be 90% of what he is now in 2028?

I wouldn't trade Jokic if I was Denver unless he forced but I think another Denver-Jokic title is impossible barring a real lucky break in the playoffs with opponent injuries.

[Duke4life831]

I think the move is to trade MPJ or Murray for 2-3 quality role players. Their big weakness if they have basically no depth because they haven't drafted well.

Who’s giving up quality role players for those contracts though?

Again I think the hope is you find a desperate GM for a team like ORL, Memphis, ATL, NO, Chicago who might be willing to take on Murray with the hope he can add something for them. But even then, I doubt Denver would get much back in return. The best thing there would be just getting out of Murray’s contract and getting easier to trade contacts in return.

And I don’t think there is any GM dumb enough to give up any kind of asset for MPJ. Don’t see how they could get a quality role player in return for him.

[JM00n69]

New GM
New Coach

New roster? How can they get out of Murray and MPJ’s contracts - is there any team dumb enough to take them?

Playing with MPJ is like playing 4 on 5, and Jamal “BUT LOOK AT HIS BUBBLE STATS 6YEARS AGO” Murray going 9/25 in a do-or-die game 5 is something else…

DETROIT where you at baby? Cade for those two lets make it happen.

[Wolfgang630]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

This is absolutely insane. Just wow

[Duke4life831]

They really just have to hope one of the young teams ready to take the next step, or a no longer young team realizing they’re headed for treadmill status will be desperate enough to trade actual assets for Murray.

I think they just have to bite the bullet with MPJ. I don’t think any GM is dumb enough to give up assets to get him and Denver just doesn’t have the assets to add onto him to unload him.

But that’s the thing, that would just get them out of one of their bad contracts. They’re still stuck with the fact they have zero depth. When Russ, Peyton Watson, and Julian Strawther are your 6th-8th guys, your roster better be ridiculously top heavy. And this Denver roster is nowhere close to being top heavy outside of Jokic.

I do think this Denver’s roster, lack of assets, and bad contracts is too much of a horrible combination to build another contending roster around Jokic. I think we’re at the point where if Jokic wants to win another ring, it won’t be at Denver.

That's my assessment. Murray's lack of development and the horrific MPJ contract just killed the ability of this club to build real title contenders. As a Knicks fan I remember Isiah's fetish for scoring PGs. He would have loved Murray but even Isiah would be down on him at this point. For all the talk of playoff Murray, he has 2 bad playoff runs for his 2 good ones and he missed anther couple due to injuries. And you summarized MPJ well, no one is dumb enough to give you anything in return for him.

In addition to what you said above management has a reputation for cheapness Cheap owners are usually fine with clubs like the current Nuggets. High 40-low 50 win teams that can make it to the 2nd round can sell tickets. And when you have a HOFer you can sucker casuals into thinking you're a real contender. I doubt the owner cares much but even if he is okay with a rebuild on the fly that takes time. And Jokic is already 30. Will he still be 90% of what he is now in 2028?

I wouldn't trade Jokic if I was Denver unless he forced but I think another Denver-Jokic title is impossible barring a real lucky break in the playoffs with opponent injuries.

Ya the fact they Jokic is 30 now. He’s past the point of being able to say “let’s bring in some new young guys and see how they mesh”. No we’re at the point now where Jokic is in his prime. Every year where you don’t put a legit contending roster around him, you just wasted a year.

And Denver just doesn’t have the assets to cancel out the bad contracts they have, plus be able to bring in a legit star talent to pair with Jokic and have just average depth.

Jokic needs to demand a trade at this point if he wants to win another ring.

[JM00n69]

Everyone is on the shop floor except Jokic. lovbe to see it. I do hope they give Adelman a chance at HC though. Even if as interim to start the season and see how it goes.

[Chanel Bomber]

Denver were -34 in the 22 Westbrook minutes today.

They just don't have an NBA bench.

The Strawther and Watson minutes were dreadful too.

The starters are still great - they just dealt with a lot of injuries this year. I don't think they'll find better value for them on the trade market. I would be very cautious about trading any one of them tbh.

The real question is how can they build some depth? They're simply too thin. Besides Braun, their young players haven't panned out, and their vet acquisitions haven't helped at all.

[Wolfgang630]

They really just have to hope one of the young teams ready to take the next step, or a no longer young team realizing they’re headed for treadmill status will be desperate enough to trade actual assets for Murray.

I think they just have to bite the bullet with MPJ. I don’t think any GM is dumb enough to give up assets to get him and Denver just doesn’t have the assets to add onto him to unload him.

But that’s the thing, that would just get them out of one of their bad contracts. They’re still stuck with the fact they have zero depth. When Russ, Peyton Watson, and Julian Strawther are your 6th-8th guys, your roster better be ridiculously top heavy. And this Denver roster is nowhere close to being top heavy outside of Jokic.

I do think this Denver’s roster, lack of assets, and bad contracts is too much of a horrible combination to build another contending roster around Jokic. I think we’re at the point where if Jokic wants to win another ring, it won’t be at Denver.

That's my assessment. Murray's lack of development and the horrific MPJ contract just killed the ability of this club to build real title contenders. As a Knicks fan I remember Isiah's fetish for scoring PGs. He would have loved Murray but even Isiah would be down on him at this point. For all the talk of playoff Murray, he has 2 bad playoff runs for his 2 good ones and he missed anther couple due to injuries. And you summarized MPJ well, no one is dumb enough to give you anything in return for him.

In addition to what you said above management has a reputation for cheapness Cheap owners are usually fine with clubs like the current Nuggets. High 40-low 50 win teams that can make it to the 2nd round can sell tickets. And when you have a HOFer you can sucker casuals into thinking you're a real contender. I doubt the owner cares much but even if he is okay with a rebuild on the fly that takes time. And Jokic is already 30. Will he still be 90% of what he is now in 2028?

I wouldn't trade Jokic if I was Denver unless he forced but I think another Denver-Jokic title is impossible barring a real lucky break in the playoffs with opponent injuries.

Ya the fact they Jokic is 30 now. He’s past the point of being able to say “let’s bring in some new young guys and see how they mesh”. No we’re at the point now where Jokic is in his prime. Every year where you don’t put a legit contending roster around him, you just wasted a year.

And Denver just doesn’t have the assets to cancel out the bad contracts they have, plus be able to bring in a legit star talent to pair with Jokic and have just average depth.

Jokic needs to demand a trade at this point if he wants to win another ring.

If it was a few years ago it’d be different. But like you said you’re in your prime now. There is no time to draft young guys. There is no time to wait. At this point in legends careers they’re surrounded by 1-3 Hall of Famers who have all been through it and you can count on. He doesn’t have that. And they don’t have assets to bring that IN now in his prime. He has to leave.

The west has

Minnesota
OKC
Houston
Dallas
San Antonio

So many young teams who are growing with each other and getting experience. They’re all getting better. They’re all gonna pull ahead.

If they stay pat then the best they can do is finally get the bench solved. They need a backup center. They NEED great veterans coming off the bench. Westbrook should be the 8th to 9th man coming off the bench. They’re stuck with Saric because he has his player option.

[Duke4life831]

:roll:

That's my assessment. Murray's lack of development and the horrific MPJ contract just killed the ability of this club to build real title contenders. As a Knicks fan I remember Isiah's fetish for scoring PGs. He would have loved Murray but even Isiah would be down on him at this point. For all the talk of playoff Murray, he has 2 bad playoff runs for his 2 good ones and he missed anther couple due to injuries. And you summarized MPJ well, no one is dumb enough to give you anything in return for him.

In addition to what you said above management has a reputation for cheapness Cheap owners are usually fine with clubs like the current Nuggets. High 40-low 50 win teams that can make it to the 2nd round can sell tickets. And when you have a HOFer you can sucker casuals into thinking you're a real contender. I doubt the owner cares much but even if he is okay with a rebuild on the fly that takes time. And Jokic is already 30. Will he still be 90% of what he is now in 2028?

I wouldn't trade Jokic if I was Denver unless he forced but I think another Denver-Jokic title is impossible barring a real lucky break in the playoffs with opponent injuries.

Ya the fact they Jokic is 30 now. He’s past the point of being able to say “let’s bring in some new young guys and see how they mesh”. No we’re at the point now where Jokic is in his prime. Every year where you don’t put a legit contending roster around him, you just wasted a year.

And Denver just doesn’t have the assets to cancel out the bad contracts they have, plus be able to bring in a legit star talent to pair with Jokic and have just average depth.

Jokic needs to demand a trade at this point if he wants to win another ring.

If it was a few years ago it’d be different. But like you said you’re in your prime now. There is no time to draft young guys. There is no time to wait. At this point in legends careers they’re surrounded by 1-3 Hall of Famers who have all been through it and you can count on. He doesn’t have that. And they don’t have assets to bring that IN now in his prime. He has to leave.

The west has

Minnesota
OKC
Houston
Dallas
San Antonio

So many young teams who are growing with each other and getting experience. They’re all getting better. They’re all gonna pull ahead.

If they stay pat then the best they can do is finally get the bench solved. They need a backup center. They NEED great veterans coming off the bench. Westbrook should be the 8th to 9th man coming off the bench. They’re stuck with Saric because he has his player option.

Yup. Just to add onto this. Here are some of the teammates that recent greats were playing with when they were 30.

Curry: KD, Draymond, Klay
LeBron: Kyrie, Love
Kobe: Pau, Artest
Duncan: Manu, Parker
Wade: LeBron, Bosh

Every guy paired up with at least 1 HOF teammate who was in their prime. Some paired up with multiple HOF teammates in their prime.

Jokic has still yet to play with an All NBA, All Star, or All Defense guy. Let alone paired up with a HOF player in their prime.

[Alatan]

BLOW

IT

UP

[sp6r=underrated]

:roll:

Ya the fact they Jokic is 30 now. He’s past the point of being able to say “let’s bring in some new young guys and see how they mesh”. No we’re at the point now where Jokic is in his prime. Every year where you don’t put a legit contending roster around him, you just wasted a year.

And Denver just doesn’t have the assets to cancel out the bad contracts they have, plus be able to bring in a legit star talent to pair with Jokic and have just average depth.

Jokic needs to demand a trade at this point if he wants to win another ring.

If it was a few years ago it’d be different. But like you said you’re in your prime now. There is no time to draft young guys. There is no time to wait. At this point in legends careers they’re surrounded by 1-3 Hall of Famers who have all been through it and you can count on. He doesn’t have that. And they don’t have assets to bring that IN now in his prime. He has to leave.

The west has

Minnesota
OKC
Houston
Dallas
San Antonio

So many young teams who are growing with each other and getting experience. They’re all getting better. They’re all gonna pull ahead.

If they stay pat then the best they can do is finally get the bench solved. They need a backup center. They NEED great veterans coming off the bench. Westbrook should be the 8th to 9th man coming off the bench. They’re stuck with Saric because he has his player option.

Yup. Just to add onto this. Here are some of the teammates that recent greats were playing with when they were 30.

Curry: KD, Draymond, Klay
LeBron: Kyrie, Love
Kobe: Pau, Artest
Duncan: Manu, Parker
Wade: LeBron, Bosh

Every guy paired up with at least 1 HOF teammate who was in their prime. Some paired up with multiple HOF teammates in their prime.

Jokic has still yet to play with an All NBA, All Star, or All Defense guy. Let alone paired up with a HOF player in their prime.

Take a look at the 2011 Mavs. They lacked the traditional number 2 on a title team but they had:
Past Prime Kidd: still a good playmaker and had developed a good outside shot
Chandler: excellent rebounding big who provided good defense
Terry: this is honestly a good comparison for Murray. Streaky, small scoring guard whose value coming from his heaters.
Peja: past-prime secondary star who was still a strong shooter.
Butler

Dirk was the one who made that team work but there was actual significant talent depth 2-15. Does anyone think the Nuggets have a similar talent pool? I don't. If the Nuggets looked like that I wouldn't kill them for not acquiring a true 8-15 guy in the NBA player as a #2.

When I look at Denver, outside the inspired Gordon acquisition which does impress me, I just see a club throwing darts.

[Duke4life831]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

This is absolutely insane. Just wow

Ya and it would be one thing if Denver put together this super deep roster of really valuable role players and Denver could just come with waves all game long of really solid players.

MPJ is unplayable in a lot of games. And you have Russ, Watson, and Strawther as your 3 guys coming off the bench.

So no legit second star, and zero depth this year. Crazy how bad they’ve done putting talent around him.

[JM00n69]

https://imgflip.com/i/9ufoi3

Someone add that as a pic, I'm too old to figure it out

[jordanwilliams6]

1). Don't throw the toys out of the cot. Murray, Braun & Gordon are all decent supporting pieces.

2). Trade MPJ to a struggling team for a veteran scorer that the current team might be ready to move. Attainable names that come to mind are DDR, Lavine, George & Beal. These are guys that could come in as 3rd options and give Murray & Jokic some playmaking help.

3). Acquire 2-3 bench pieces that can actually contribute in the playoffs. It's not easy but can easily be done if they do it the right way.

[JDR720]

I think the move is to trade MPJ or Murray for 2-3 quality role players. Their big weakness if they have basically no depth because they haven't drafted well.

Who’s giving up quality role players for those contracts though?

Again I think the hope is you find a desperate GM for a team like ORL, Memphis, ATL, NO, Chicago who might be willing to take on Murray with the hope he can add something for them. But even then, I doubt Denver would get much back in return. The best thing there would be just getting out of Murray’s contract and getting easier to trade contacts in return.

And I don’t think there is any GM dumb enough to give up any kind of asset for MPJ. Don’t see how they could get a quality role player in return for him.

There are teams in the East that would be desperate enough to like you mentioned. Orlando may take Murray etc.

MPJ would be a swap. Like, say, Miles Bridges + a contract filler. Not that I would do that, but that's the basis of a MPJ deal. Trade him for another average starter making a lot of money and a filler contract. The main thing you're looking for is that other expensive average starter to have more versatility.

[Wolfgang630]

Since the AG trade I never saw Denver’s name pop up in rumors at any trade deadline. I would bitch and complain for years why I never see their name pop up. I would say why don’t I see their name in rumors for free agents.

Paul Reed was out there and it’s like just get him. That’s better than nothing. Just mind boggling you’re building a championship team and for years you can’t get a backup Center at least. Dude pay me the money I could think of that.

[Duke4life831]

:roll:

If it was a few years ago it’d be different. But like you said you’re in your prime now. There is no time to draft young guys. There is no time to wait. At this point in legends careers they’re surrounded by 1-3 Hall of Famers who have all been through it and you can count on. He doesn’t have that. And they don’t have assets to bring that IN now in his prime. He has to leave.

The west has

Minnesota
OKC
Houston
Dallas
San Antonio

So many young teams who are growing with each other and getting experience. They’re all getting better. They’re all gonna pull ahead.

If they stay pat then the best they can do is finally get the bench solved. They need a backup center. They NEED great veterans coming off the bench. Westbrook should be the 8th to 9th man coming off the bench. They’re stuck with Saric because he has his player option.

Yup. Just to add onto this. Here are some of the teammates that recent greats were playing with when they were 30.

Curry: KD, Draymond, Klay
LeBron: Kyrie, Love
Kobe: Pau, Artest
Duncan: Manu, Parker
Wade: LeBron, Bosh

Every guy paired up with at least 1 HOF teammate who was in their prime. Some paired up with multiple HOF teammates in their prime.

Jokic has still yet to play with an All NBA, All Star, or All Defense guy. Let alone paired up with a HOF player in their prime.

Take a look at the 2011 Mavs. They lacked the traditional number 2 on a title team but they had:
Past Prime Kidd: still a good playmaker and had developed a good outside shot
Chandler: excellent rebounding big who provided good defense
Terry: this is honestly a good comparison for Murray. Streaky, small scoring guard whose value coming from his heaters.
Peja: past-prime secondary star who was still a strong shooter.
Butler

Dirk was the one who made that team work but there was actual significant talent depth 2-15. Does anyone think the Nuggets have a similar talent pool? I don't. If the Nuggets looked like that I wouldn't kill them for not acquiring a true 8-15 guy in the NBA player as a #2.

When I look at Denver, outside the inspired Gordon acquisition which does impress me, I just see a club throwing darts.

Yup. And I think that’s similar to Denver’s championship run.

Murray was much better back then, compared to now. You had Gordon. MPJ could at least throw it in the ocean some games. You had KCP in his prime. Bruce Brown who fit that roster perfectly, a vet Jeff Green who at least knew what he was doing when he was on the court and a rookie Braun who brought energy whenever he played. That was a legit well fitting roster.

Gordon is still Gordon. But again playoff Murray is a thing of the past now. MPJ unplayable. There is no replacement for KCP, Braun is in the Brown role but he’s in the starting lineup. And your bench is Russ, Watson, Strawther compared to Brown, Green, Braun.

This is just a significantly worse version of Denver’s championship team from 2 years ago.

And I agree, the only big move Denver has made that has ever made any sense during the time Jokic has been there was the AG trade. Everything else has been just little role player moves or giving out really bad contracts. Just butchered this roster construction

[Wolfgang630]

Lmao

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ