Patrick Williams is having his worst year

[MrSparkle]

Let's be honest; it's not normal for a 23yo to slow down so much. He looks physically broken.

Not defending his game, but he was drafted 50% for his size and athleticism (although it was never great, it was "good"). This was barely after he turned 19:

Watch on YouTube

I'm gonna throw some optimism into the ring. Maybe his foot and knee never healed right. First and foremost it's crucial to keep the weight down this summer. Oh, and let's get Vuc to give him #9 back.

[Red Larrivee]

No. 4 (Bulls): Deni Avdija (9)

Deni Avdija is likely going to be the first-ever Israeli player drafted in the lottery, and he’s looking more and more like a lock to the Bulls at No. 4. Nine of our 12 mocks see him going to Chicago, but if not, he’ll likely land in Cleveland at No. 5. The Ringer did have him at No. 2 to the Warriors, but they’ve changed their thinking now, too, and have him at No. 5.

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/2200224/2020/11/17/nba-draft-big-board/

Okongwu was 4 on this one. In your link, it also notes that Pat was a big riser in the draft process and the Pistons were high on him at 7. After 3, the order was completely up in the air. I think if Deni were the consensus, he's not dropping to 9 inexplicably.

Either way, it was a really weird draft filled with a ton of misses.

You do know what consensus means? "a general agreement or a shared opinion among a group of people. It's not necessarily unanimous agreement" So you finding a random mock with a different player going #4 doesn't change anything. And calling it a weird draft doesn't change anything either. Most draft people had Deni at #4 this year Deni is playing like an All Star and Williams is not. Those are the facts. And FWIW every draft has misses its not unique to this draft. Also if you want look at draft profiles of Williams you will see pretty most of his NBA problems were there in college.

The link I gave you was a consensus from 17 mock drafts on the same date with a different player at 4. Top on that 5 teams passed on Deni after the Top 3. That's not a consensus. I'm just pointing out that the 4th pick that year was by no means some obvious pick that AK failed to make. That's clear based on the amount of whiffs after 3. Williams was very flawed, but also similarly flawed as many of the prospects in that range.

[Ice Man]

I knock Pat and then he plays a nice game. Yeah sure Philly in Game 82 isn't exactly the toughest opponent, but an NBA game is an NBA game. That's what we need to see from Mr. Williams.

[RSP83]

Watch on YouTube

[dougthonus]

His D has always been the most overrated thing about him. He really hasn't been able to guard any position well in the NBA. IMO he has been a 100% bust since day one. The expectations were he was supposed to be the piece to allow the Bulls to contend. I guess good for him he is still an NBA player being able to hit at 3s at good percentage for most of his early career. But also wasn't playing D well enough to make up for the low attempts. When Bridges was the premier 3-D player for the Suns he was peaking at 4.4 3PA but he was also considered one of the best wing defenders in the NBA culminating with a 2nd place DPOY finish in his final full year there. Sure Williams can be a 8th man on an NBA team but that is a pretty bad outcome for a 4th pick.

Certainly not trying to sell you on Patrick Williams being good. Just saying I think there's a pretty clear path where he could be worth his deal as it ages.

There was no reason for anyone to have star expectations of any player we were going to draft at #4, and outside of blind hope, no reason to think he'd ever be the missing piece to contend, but at this point anyone that had those expectations probably gave up on them this year. Now you have to just hope he can find a way to be a viable rotation player.

[Rose2Boozer]

Patrick Williams looks about 6'7" 250lbs. Williams should be playing no heavier than 230lbs. If he drops weight, it could bring back the bounce in his step. This season he pretty much looked slow and sluggish. He's not a good enough athlete to be carrying extra pounds.

[sco]

Patrick Williams looks about 6'7" 250lbs. Williams should be playing no heavier than 230lbs. If he drops weight, it could bring back the bounce in his step. This season he pretty much looked slow and sluggish. He's not a good enough athlete to be carrying extra pounds.

I wanted to make sure this video from 4/6/25 made it in this thread because, NFW is the shirtless Pat shown here 250lbs (or overweight in any way). I think he has gone under the radar in terms of working his way back into shape this season. Now we can say he is slow, but dude looks as "in shape" as I can remember...and kudos to him.

Read on Twitter

[panthermark]

Patrick Williams looks about 6'7" 250lbs. Williams should be playing no heavier than 230lbs. If he drops weight, it could bring back the bounce in his step. This season he pretty much looked slow and sluggish. He's not a good enough athlete to be carrying extra pounds.

I wanted to make sure this video from 4/6/25 made it in this thread because, NFW is the shirtless Pat shown here 250lbs (or overweight in any way). I think he has gone under the radar in terms of working his way back into shape this season. Now we can say he is slow, but dude looks as "in shape" as I can remember...and kudos to him.

Read on Twitter

I wasn't really concerned about his weight/build. What I'm impressed with in that video is how "normal" he seems. His on court demeanor comes off as almost autistic.

I don't know if that is good or bad.

[sco]

Patrick Williams looks about 6'7" 250lbs. Williams should be playing no heavier than 230lbs. If he drops weight, it could bring back the bounce in his step. This season he pretty much looked slow and sluggish. He's not a good enough athlete to be carrying extra pounds.

I wanted to make sure this video from 4/6/25 made it in this thread because, NFW is the shirtless Pat shown here 250lbs (or overweight in any way). I think he has gone under the radar in terms of working his way back into shape this season. Now we can say he is slow, but dude looks as "in shape" as I can remember...and kudos to him.

Read on Twitter

I wasn't really concerned about his weight/build. What I'm impressed with in that video is how "normal" he seems. His on court demeanor comes off as almost autistic.

I don't know if that is good or bad.

Yeah, I think he is a different guy behind the scenes. Other than teammates enouraging him to be more aggressive, you don't really hear anything bad about him coming from the lockeroom.

[dawhizz]

Just cut him. I don’t care how much he’s owed. I don’t care if he somehow rejuvenates his career somewhere else (he won’t). He’s a zero. Bring back Torrey Craig for the minimum and you’ll get more production for only slightly more money. Or send him to the G league. Just get him off this team.

[Donkedave]

Renegotiate his deal would be in play soon! Can drop as far as 40% which is $10.8m. Even 20% is $14.4m just above MLE.

This might be an option if he doesn’t get going next year

[step]

Renegotiate his deal would be in play soon! Can drop as far as 40% which is $10.8m. Even 20% is $14.4m just above MLE.

This might be an option if he doesn’t get going next year

You forgot the green font, someone may think you're being serious.

[Ice Man]

You forgot the green font, someone may think you're being serious.

Hey, maybe he is. If the rest of us perform like Pat, that's the sort of offer that our bosses make. With several zeros removed, of course.

[step]

You forgot the green font, someone may think you're being serious.

Hey, maybe he is. If the rest of us perform like Pat, that's the sort of offer that our bosses make. With several zeros removed, of course.

Sure, but we all know 'real life' operates on another set of rules (almost always skewed in the companies favour). Pat's just not going to go,hey, let me hand back $30M.

And I'm struggling to recall of any player ever renegotiating for less... and it turns out, as I Google more about it, the CBA forbids it.

Haslem came to mind... but that was more opting out of his final year. And we can all question why he was then so kept on the books as a vet min well past his time...

And another example: Clarkson did renegotiate with the Jazz which saw his new deal start on a 40% reduction, but the Jazz did bump up his current season's salary by $9M to do so. Effectively making the 2 year $28M extension almost 2 year $37M. He was on the last year of his previous deal too.

Summary:

Renegotiation for increased salary:
Teams can renegotiate contracts to increase a player's salary, but only if they have sufficient cap space and it's within the rules of the CBA.

Restrictions on salary reductions:
The CBA does not allow for renegotiations that would decrease a player's salary. This is to protect players from being pressured to take pay cuts.

Purpose of renegotiations:
Renegotiations are primarily used to adjust a player's salary within a contract's existing term, often to increase it as the player's value rises, or to make room for a contract extension with a higher salary in the future.

No Player Contract may be renegotiated except in accordance with the following:
(1) Subject to Sections 7(c)(2) and (3) below, a Player Contract covering a term of four (4) or more Seasons may be renegotiated no sooner than the third anniversary of the signing of the Contract.

That's still 2 seasons away.

(d) Other.
(1) In no event shall a Team and player negotiate a decrease in Salary or in any Incentive Compensation for any Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract.

Basically from the way I read things, we can look to renegotiate after year 3 and look to sign & extend him, to which there are conditions on how much less that can be. And then again, if he's not living up to the deal as it stands now... why would you ever consider extending him.

https://imgix.cosmicjs.com/25da5eb0-15eb-11ee-b5b3-fbd321202bdf-Final-2023-NBA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-6-28-23.pdf

Basically the end summary is ... don't be stupid enough to sign the player to a contract amount he's not worth or will live up to. You are either stuck with him or the ramifications of incentivising another team to take him off your hands.

[fleet]

You forgot the green font, someone may think you're being serious.

Hey, maybe he is. If the rest of us perform like Pat, that's the sort of offer that our bosses make. With several zeros removed, of course.

Sure, but we all know 'real life' operates on another set of rules (almost always skewed in the companies favour). Pat's just not going to go,hey, let me hand back $30M.

And I'm struggling to recall of any player ever renegotiating for less... and it turns out, as I Google more about it, the CBA forbids it.

Haslem came to mind... but that was more opting out of his final year. And we can all question why he was then so kept on the books as a vet min well past his time...

And another example: Clarkson did renegotiate with the Jazz which saw his new deal start on a 40% reduction, but the Jazz did bump up his current season's salary by $9M to do so. Effectively making the 2 year $28M extension almost 2 year $37M. He was on the last year of his previous deal too.

Summary:

Renegotiation for increased salary:
Teams can renegotiate contracts to increase a player's salary, but only if they have sufficient cap space and it's within the rules of the CBA.

Restrictions on salary reductions:
The CBA does not allow for renegotiations that would decrease a player's salary. This is to protect players from being pressured to take pay cuts.

Purpose of renegotiations:
Renegotiations are primarily used to adjust a player's salary within a contract's existing term, often to increase it as the player's value rises, or to make room for a contract extension with a higher salary in the future.

No Player Contract may be renegotiated except in accordance with the following:
(1) Subject to Sections 7(c)(2) and (3) below, a Player Contract covering a term of four (4) or more Seasons may be renegotiated no sooner than the third anniversary of the signing of the Contract.

That's still 2 seasons away.

(d) Other.
(1) In no event shall a Team and player negotiate a decrease in Salary or in any Incentive Compensation for any Salary Cap Year covered by a Player Contract.

Basically from the way I read things, we can look to renegotiate after year 3 and look to sign & extend him, to which there are conditions on how much less that can be. And then again, if he's not living up to the deal as it stands now... why would you ever consider extending him.

https://imgix.cosmicjs.com/25da5eb0-15eb-11ee-b5b3-fbd321202bdf-Final-2023-NBA-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement-6-28-23.pdf

Basically the end summary is ... don't be stupid enough to sign the player to a contract amount he's not worth or will live up to. You are either stuck with him or the ramifications of incentivising another team to take him off your hands.

Every obviously and avoidable dumb decision in AKME era has been seen coming a mile away. Each one of them we have said, like nahhh. The they can’t do that, they won’t do that. Train is coming. Just step off the tracks man, why aren’t you moving off the tracks??? Splat.

[Ice Man]

Sure, but we all know 'real life' operates on another set of rules (almost always skewed in the companies favour). Pat's just not going to go,hey, let me hand back $30M.

I was joking. But you did provide some interesting information, so thanks for doing the work.

[kodo]

Let's be honest; it's not normal for a 23yo to slow down so much. He looks physically broken.

Not defending his game, but he was drafted 50% for his size and athleticism (although it was never great, it was "good"). This was barely after he turned 19:

Watch on YouTube

I'm gonna throw some optimism into the ring. Maybe his foot and knee never healed right. First and foremost it's crucial to keep the weight down this summer. Oh, and let's get Vuc to give him #9 back.

Damn even Wendell looked so much slimmer and athletic there, hard to believe this is the same guy in Orlando.
OTOH Coby looks as slim & athletic now as back then.

[TheJordanRule]

Young talent is almost always frustrating. Pat is especially frustrating with the way he goes in and out of consistency so haphazardly. It makes us kinda wanna shake the **** outtta him and go, "Can you play or not?! Eff! What TF are you???"

[GoBlue72391]

Let's be honest; it's not normal for a 23yo to slow down so much. He looks physically broken.

Not defending his game, but he was drafted 50% for his size and athleticism (although it was never great, it was "good"). This was barely after he turned 19:

Watch on YouTube

I'm gonna throw some optimism into the ring. Maybe his foot and knee never healed right. First and foremost it's crucial to keep the weight down this summer. Oh, and let's get Vuc to give him #9 back.

Damn even Wendell looked so much slimmer and athletic there, hard to believe this is the same guy in Orlando.
OTOH Coby looks as slim & athletic now as back then.

I saw your comment and clicked the video and randomly fast forwarded to find WCJ and I saw a #9 and audibly said, "Who is that? Blakeney?"

It was Pat

It's crazy, he's only 23 but moves and plays like a 15-year vet who's one season away from retirement. Jeff Green moves better than him.

[Indomitable]

Let's be honest; it's not normal for a 23yo to slow down so much. He looks physically broken.

Not defending his game, but he was drafted 50% for his size and athleticism (although it was never great, it was "good"). This was barely after he turned 19:

Watch on YouTube

I'm gonna throw some optimism into the ring. Maybe his foot and knee never healed right. First and foremost it's crucial to keep the weight down this summer. Oh, and let's get Vuc to give him #9 back.

My goodness he handled it better too.