OT: Leafs/NHL Thread

[MoneyBall]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

[Brinbe]

Ultimately this era and chapter in Buds history was a story of unrealized potential and bitter repeated disappointment. But that's reality, it's not always gonna just suddenly work out and be a beautiful storybook ending. You actually gotta do the work sometimes instead of having things happen just because.

A team that over a period of almost a decade was consistently in the top 5-10 of the league, but was never able to be the best or even in the final four. We've lionized past eras that weren't able to win either but I think the weight of expectation with this group (Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Reilly all being high picks plus JT signing) and the way they badly folded when put under pressure will enure they're not seen in the same light when given time/distance as those early 90s Wendel/Gilmour and then late 90s/early 2000s Sundin/Quinn teams are seen now in comparison.

Regardless, I think most recognize that we need real substantive change and we're gonna get more of it this off-season. Hopefully it pays off and the 2nd half of Matthews' career here has a bit more joy attached to it.

[sidsid]

The piece to focus on as to why this core doesn't work isn't the underperformance in first rounds or advancing at all. It's that they clearly don't play a style of game or have the type of players that can thrive in the important games.

The game 5 to 7 records is really damning. They have to switch gears, and the same way the Celtics are derided for their 3pt or nothing approach, this is very much the same problem. Except they're really the Sixers in terms of every top player folding in production when it matters.

The Leafs blueprint to a cup would need to be through a path that has little to know important games (sweeps and 5 game series wins). And they've never even gotten to the second half of the playoffs where it gets even harder.

[God Squad]

I'm just hear for the tears.

[tecumseh18]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Leafs lost their last two home games by a combined 12-2 score, resulting in their own fans booing them.

You can't sugar-coat this loss, it was BAD! One can't blame the new GM or coach for the Leafs core showing us who they are, yet again. Shanny - you can blame. He's been the one constant in nearly a decade of playoff ineptitude. He should be fired. How to maximize the core in trades or whatever is beyond my knowledge level as a casual fan. But something has to be done. A different direction is called for.

[vado]

That was rough, you can’t play like that in the playoffs twice.

Marner and Tavares being FAs, they will have quite a bit of cap to play with. Marner clearly does not want to resign. He’s going to go somewhere for big money and less pressure. Tavares will want to be back but he’s only going to get older from here. It will be interesting to see how losing at least Marner will affect Matthew’s and Nylander's attitude.

[Los_29]

I really don’t know who is out there and not sure how the cap works in the NHL but I wouldn’t mind re-signing Tavares and then letting Marner walk. It might be a better way to fill out their roster. I also don’t know if they have any one in the AHL ready to take the next step. Adding talents like Knies is huge because it doesn’t cost much.

One thing I noticed is teams like the Lightning (when they were winning) and now the Panthers get contributions from everyone. Leafs have never had that with this team. The Panthers getting contributions from their 3rd and 4th lines helps disguise the fact Tkachuk had like 3 points in the series. lol.

[Tacoma]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Hard disagree. This is not a one-year thing, it's been a string of disappointments over more than a decade. Brings forth the old saying: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Yeah, they pushed to Game 7 but that performance was inexcusable. I saw only the 2nd period and there were many times when I had to do a double take to see if Florida was on a power play (they weren't) because the Leafs played almost the whole period like they were short handed. It was so one-sided at times that I had flashes of the Leafs in the role of the Washington Generals vs. the Harlem Globetrotters.

IMO, they need to clean house - starting at the top. Brendan Shanahan needs to go and then let the new President build his own team with a different vision than Shanahan. This is on Ed Rogers. He has critical Masai but gives his buddies like Shanahan and Shapiro (Jays) long leashes. It's a glaring double standard.

[MiamiSPX]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Leafs lost their last two home games by a combined 12-2 score, resulting in their own fans booing them.

You can't sugar-coat this loss, it was BAD! One can't blame the new GM or coach for the Leafs core showing us who they are, yet again. Shanny - you can blame. He's been the one constant in nearly a decade of playoff ineptitude. He should be fired. How to maximize the core in trades or whatever is beyond my knowledge level as a casual fan. But something has to be done. A different direction is called for.

Shanahan's contract ends when the season ends. By all accounts he will not be brought back. He executed the tank and rebuild perfectly, but now this is just pure arrogance holding on to this core. We whined about Masai's attachment to PS and FVV, this is like that x10000. They also have no 1st round pick in each of the next 3 drafts. Again, due to doubling and tripling down on a core that was never going to get it done. Good riddance.

I also don't believe the kind words from Maurice and Marchand, especially the latter (which the TNT crew also doubted). He is absolutely trolling.

[Los_29]

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Leafs lost their last two home games by a combined 12-2 score, resulting in their own fans booing them.

You can't sugar-coat this loss, it was BAD! One can't blame the new GM or coach for the Leafs core showing us who they are, yet again. Shanny - you can blame. He's been the one constant in nearly a decade of playoff ineptitude. He should be fired. How to maximize the core in trades or whatever is beyond my knowledge level as a casual fan. But something has to be done. A different direction is called for.

Shanahan's contract ends when the season ends. By all accounts he will not be brought back. He executed the tank and rebuild perfectly, but now this is just pure arrogance holding on to this core. We whined about Masai's attachment to PS and FVV, this is like that x10000. They also have no 1st round pick in each of the next 3 drafts. Again, due to doubling and tripling down on a core that was never going to get it done. Good riddance.

I also don't believe the kind words from Maurice and Marchand, especially the latter (which the TNT crew also doubted). He is absolutely trolling.

Yeah I agree about Marchand and Maurice. I think they are just saying that so they can keep beating up on us every year. lol. I think Marner is the guy to go. Changes need to be made but I do like Berube and Treliving and believe the changes they made around the core 4 were promising.

[MoneyBall]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Leafs lost their last two home games by a combined 12-2 score, resulting in their own fans booing them.

You can't sugar-coat this loss, it was BAD! One can't blame the new GM or coach for the Leafs core showing us who they are, yet again. Shanny - you can blame. He's been the one constant in nearly a decade of playoff ineptitude. He should be fired. How to maximize the core in trades or whatever is beyond my knowledge level as a casual fan. But something has to be done. A different direction is called for.

I don't have an issue with making some changes, but it all depends on what's available. Making changes just for the sake of making changes is not my idea of good management.

Of course the fans are booing them, they paid an arm and a leg to witness their favorite team get crushed in person. I don't think that's a good gauge for deciding what to do during the off season.

[Coco Costanza]

At this point, it just seems like this particular team has the yips, and they aren't going to ever get over the hump.

What's wild to me is, a team like the Golden Knights was able to go to the Stanley Cup finals in its inaugural season (as well as a second time where they won), while the Leafs continue to struggle year in and year out.

[Quattro]

Just tweak the core. Replace Marner with someone (which is hard) and then move into next year. The team did look a lot better in years past. Losing to Florida is not a reason to panic. They are a very good team.

This is the key takeaway. They pushed it to 7 games against the team that won it all last year, and may very well win it all again this year. I understand the frustration, but it's really not that bad.

Hard disagree. This is not a one-year thing, it's been a string of disappointments over more than a decade. Brings forth the old saying: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Yeah, they pushed to Game 7 but that performance was inexcusable. I saw only the 2nd period and there were many times when I had to do a double take to see if Florida was on a power play (they weren't) because the Leafs played almost the whole period like they were short handed. It was so one-sided at times that I had flashes of the Leafs in the role of the Washington Generals vs. the Harlem Globetrotters.

IMO, they need to clean house - starting at the top. Brendan Shanahan needs to go and then let the new President build his own team with a different vision than Shanahan. This is on Ed Rogers. He has critical Masai but gives his buddies like Shanahan and Shapiro (Jays) long leashes. It's a glaring double standard.

Forget that they "played florida tough". Once again, when it mattered most, their best players were invisible. 4 team goals in the last 4 games of this series, 2 total points in those games from the "big 4". This has happened over and over again.

You cannot allocate so much of your salary cap to a handful of guys who repeatedly disappear in the playoffs. If they're all back next year and they do more tinkering with the 3rd and 4th lines, then nobody should be wasting their time watching.

[M3tro]

At this point, it just seems like this particular team has the yips, and they aren't going to ever get over the hump.

What's wild to me is, a team like the Golden Knights was able to go to the Stanley Cup finals in its inaugural season (as well as a second time where they won), while the Leafs continue to struggle year in and year out.

Because Vegas was gifted a contender from Day 1.

The NHL made sure they were good upon their inception.

[james vincent]

At least one of Matthews, marner, Tavares needs to go. To be honest, I’d rather it be Matthews. His statements at the end of the game and his lack of overall leadership and production in the postseason is a glaring red flag that’ll keep the team stuck in purgatory (which is what MLSE wants). I’ve been clamoring for decent defencemen on this team for a decade but it felt like Florida was stronger, tougher and did whatever they wanted on both sides of the ice. The maple leafs looked like hapless children while the panthers did whatever they wanted to with little resistance.

[Dr Positivity]

I think keep Marner trade Matthews makes the most sense from an asset perspective, the latter probably aging worse and I don't like the balance of a forward core of Matthews, Nylander, resigned Tavares, Knies, it leans too goal scoring I think.

[Bankai]

I understood the optimism and im not hating, but I wont forget the "Not 1, Not 2, Not 3.." talk by Leaf Fans after Tavares was signed.

[Potential]

I'm glad I chose to be a die hard Raptors fan and a casual Leafs bandwagoner. They gotta be the worst franchise in the history of sports. They've never been to The Finals in a league with more than 6 teams. Imagine time traveling back to 1967 and telling the players in the locker room that we're 60 years into the future and the Leafs still haven't made it back to The Finals.

[Raps in 4]

I'm glad I chose to be a die hard Raptors fan and a casual Leafs bandwagoner. They gotta be the worst franchise in the history of sports. They've never been to The Finals in a league with more than 6 teams. Imagine time traveling back to 1967 and telling the players in the locker room that we're 60 years into the future and the Leafs still haven't made it back to The Finals.

*12 teams

The Red Sox went 86 years without a title, and the Cubs went 108 years (MLB had 16 teams back then). The Leafs are one of the most embarassing franchises in the history of sport, but they aren't alone.

Also, being a Raptors fan hasn't been much better. We've been failures for 29 years of our 30 year existence. Granted, we aren't the league's most popular team (like the Leafs are), so expectations are lower, but it's still been a miserable ride for the most part.

[bballsparkin]

Marner is not built for a rough playoff series. Skilled and extremely talented, but too fragile for when the going gets tough.

- Someone who's not a fan and only saw 6 minutes of game 3.

Losing him for nothing has got to hurt nonetheless.....

It's addition by subtraction at this point.

Ya for the money he wants maybe. Big decisions to make. Teams might try to steal Knies too. Most teams would like to have a player like that.