The Tre Johnson Thread

[JMAC3]

bottom line... i dont think melo-miller-ace or melo-tre-miller works long-term. probably requires a future trade to balance roster, which is fine. we should be open to whatever at this point.

I don't know if I would write off Tre as a defender.
He is 1 inch taller than VJ
3 lbs lighter than VJ
3 inches longer Wingspan than VJ
1 inch lower on Max Vert than VJ

Tre has tools to be a good defender if he commits.

[EmpireFalls]

bottom line... i dont think melo-miller-ace or melo-tre-miller works long-term. probably requires a future trade to balance roster, which is fine. we should be open to whatever at this point.

I don't know if I would write off Tre as a defender.
He is 1 inch taller than VJ
3 lbs lighter than VJ
3 inches longer Wingspan than VJ
1 inch lower on Max Vert than VJ

Tre has tools to be a good defender if he commits.

And yet the fact that he is so awful as a defender despite those tools is perplexing. You can’t just look at physical tools and think it makes a good defender. Dalton Knecht has prototypical wing size and can’t stay on the floor. LaMelo has amazing length and hands for a PG but is a poor defender.

Importantly Tre’s body type is the exact same skinny ectomorph that Melo and Miller are. We will get bullied by players who are strong and go through defenders in the post. Imagine defending a Julius Randle or Luka Doncic with one of them, it’s hopeless. You need variety in defender type for a good defense , and VJ provides that much more than Tre.

All of this is secondary to the fact that Tre is a poor defender, who doesn’t rebound or stay in front well. His defensive stance and general event creation on that end is quite poor, meanwhile VJ is a steal machine.

[driveandkick]

bottom line... i dont think melo-miller-ace or melo-tre-miller works long-term. probably requires a future trade to balance roster, which is fine. we should be open to whatever at this point.

Yeah I’m so here, there’s no way either combination is working long term here. I also totally agree with those who say this should not matter right now.

[yosemiteben]

Is there a reason that I shouldn't view Devin Booker as a realistic comp for Tre? He's longer but otherwise about the same combine measurements.

I'm not real worried about him being skinny when he just turned 19.

[JMAC3]

Is there a reason that I shouldn't view Devin Booker as a realistic comp for Tre? He's longer but otherwise about the same combine measurements.

I'm not real worried about him being skinny when he just turned 19.

Other than Devin Booker is a top 10 player in the league over the last 5 years?

[Liver_Pooty]

Is there a reason that I shouldn't view Devin Booker as a realistic comp for Tre? He's longer but otherwise about the same combine measurements.

I'm not real worried about him being skinny when he just turned 19.

Tyler Herro is my comp for Tre.

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

?t=SAN69GKjMO6YXUIDUSAzEA&s=19

Tre or vj debate put out to Twitter universe by no ceilings. Scrolling through the comments it looks like it's about 50/50. With half of each side saying it's not even close. What do you trust more tre's ability to defend or vj's ability to shoot.

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[Braggins]

What do you trust more tre's ability to defend or vj's ability to shoot.

VJ's ability to shoot by a big margin. VJ is already a decent shooter. Tre is trash on defense and I don't think his measurements mean much except that you'll have a bit wider range of players you can hide him on.

I think VJ's biggest concern as far as his ceiling is concerned is his ball handling.

[JMAC3]

What do you trust more tre's ability to defend or vj's ability to shoot.

VJ's ability to shoot by a big margin. VJ is already a decent shooter. Tre is trash on defense and I don't think his measurements mean much except that you'll have a bit wider range of players you can hide him on.

I think VJ's biggest concern as far as his ceiling is concerned is his ball handling.

I probably trust VJ shooting slightly more than Tre defense, but not by much. I trust Tre shooting more than VJ defense though.

Knowing the Hornets maybe this is a better question... who would you rather have if 2/3 of Melo, Miller or Bridges are out for a 5-10 game stretch?

[fatlever]

Read on Twitter

These shooting upside and his scoring profile is definitely elite.
I can't say I love the fact that statistically his freshman season is very similar to Malik Monk and this draft analyst compares his median Projection outcome to be monk. I'm happy that monk turned into a very solid 6th man scoring option in Sacramento, but I'm not taking that due 4th overall. So I would need to feel pretty confident that he would be either a better shooter, passer, or defender than monk.

[fatlever]

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-news-analysis-nba-mock-draft-rumors-tre-johnson-stats-highlights-interview-player-comparison-rutgers-ahmed-jama/

Another good QA from the Sixers pov.

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[Braggins]

One of the reasons I don't think Kon to Philly at #3 is actually a possibility is because if the 76ers are really looking for a better fit than Ace/VJ they would probably just draft Tre.

[fatlever]

I think any playoff aspiration team that just watched the impact that Caruso and Wallace had for okc can easily talk themselves into vj. Okc showed that you can never have too many guys that can fly around and defend.

My gut says sixers take vj. Hornets choose between Ace tre and kon.

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[Braggins]

I could see an argument for Ace, VJ, or Tre, at #3.

Ive seen people saying that Philly won't take Ace because Morey is an analytics guy, but I looked back on his drafting history and didn't really see any clear patter of him only taking analytics darlings. I also tend to think that NBA scouts don't use analytics in quite the same way when looking at draft prospects that they do when looking at finished NBA players. I'm sure it matters that Ace doesn't look great in impact stats and has a low free throw rate and all that, but I also think NBA teams don't view that stuff as the end all be all for 18/19 year olds who are still developing. It seems like most teams place a very high value on tools/traits and upside when picking high in the draft.

I still lean a bit towards thinking they will just take Ace because thats who I think teams will value the highest after Cooper/Harper because of his combo of tools and high end flashes. Ive only watched a few games of Ace/VJ and saw no games of Tre, so I can't really scout them myself and say confidently who I think is the better player of the three, but if I had to guess right now with no intel I would default to Ace, but I could see arguments for other players.

[JMAC3]

I think any playoff aspiration team that just watched the impact that Caruso and Wallace had for okc can easily talk themselves into vj. Okc showed that you can never have too many guys that can fly around and defend.

My gut says sixers take vj. Hornets choose between Ace tre and kon.

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I don't think anyone is basing what they do with a top 5 pick because of what the 6th and 7th man do on OKC.
Cason is a cool player, but he is averaging 5.5 ppg in the playoffs on 42% shooting from the field.

[fatlever]

I think any playoff aspiration team that just watched the impact that Caruso and Wallace had for okc can easily talk themselves into vj. Okc showed that you can never have too many guys that can fly around and defend.

My gut says sixers take vj. Hornets choose between Ace tre and kon.

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I don't think anyone is basing what they do with a top 5 pick because of what the 6th and 7th man do on OKC.
Cason is a cool player, but he is averaging 5.5 ppg in the playoffs on 42% shooting from the field.

You don't think other potential playoff teams around the league aren't paying attention to what the Thunder did to the Nuggets in that series in terms of having multiple aggressive versatile wing/poa defenders that can at least function offensively around other superstars? Pointing out Wallace's stats in the series is kind of irrelevant in terms of discussing the Archetype of player that can really help a playoff team - and vj would be a much better wallace. Boston is another example last year with holiday and white... We've seen this recently of good playoff teams having multiple defensive guards. To a lesser extent you can look at the impact that Suggs had on Orlando when he was healthy. That type of player has proven very valuable For the Sixers it makes sense since they already have two superstar level players (Plus whatever they get out of Pg) and mccain. ace/tre Maybe make more sense for the Sixers if you think embiid is toast and you're looking for a big swing.

The Thunder traded giddey for caruso. And Josh was no doubt fantastic for the Bulls in the second half of the season but the Thunder still make that trade 10 times out of 10 for what the Thunder needed to make their team better.

[JMAC3]

I think any playoff aspiration team that just watched the impact that Caruso and Wallace had for okc can easily talk themselves into vj. Okc showed that you can never have too many guys that can fly around and defend.

My gut says sixers take vj. Hornets choose between Ace tre and kon.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

I don't think anyone is basing what they do with a top 5 pick because of what the 6th and 7th man do on OKC.
Cason is a cool player, but he is averaging 5.5 ppg in the playoffs on 42% shooting from the field.

You don't think other potential playoff teams around the league aren't paying attention to what the Thunder did to the Nuggets in that series in terms of having multiple aggressive versatile wing/poa defenders that can at least function offensively around other superstars? Pointing out Wallace's stats in the series is kind of irrelevant in terms of discussing the Archetype of player that can really help a playoff team - and vj would be a much better wallace. Boston is another example last year with holiday and white... We've seen this recently of good playoff teams having multiple defensive guards. To a lesser extent you can look at the impact that Suggs had on Orlando when he was healthy. That type of player has proven very valuable For the Sixers it makes sense since they already have two superstar level players (Plus whatever they get out of Pg) and mccain. ace/tre Maybe make more sense for the Sixers if you think embiid is toast and you're looking for a big swing.

The Thunder traded giddey for caruso. And Josh was no doubt fantastic for the Bulls in the second half of the season but the Thunder still make that trade 10 times out of 10 for what the Thunder needed to make their team better.

Sure they probably want to add more of these guys, but again nobody is changing their top 5 draft strategy based on what the role players are doing in a playoff series. They are looking to draft the SGA, Chet, KAT, Brunson, Anthony Edwards and Julius Randle types that are allstars that got their teams to the conference finals, not focusing on getting the next Aaron Wiggins.

[fatlever]

moving goalposts... We're comparing vj to Aaron Wiggins now?
We are talking about an archetype of player that is having tremendous impact on playoff teams. Whether that player is a role player, 6th man or a starter is irrelevant. Clearly the Sixers would be drafting Vj to start next to Maxey, not be their 9th man. come on... It's fine that you disagree with what I'm saying. Discussion is good. but don't twist the point to make it sound like what I am trying to say is irrational.

[JMAC3]

I would say Wiggins is closer to Cason and Caruso... then the #3 pick is to Caruso and Cason in terms of value.

I will reiterate my point again, I don't think teams are watching games and thinking role players are impacting the way they view what they should do at #3 which was what your initial point seemed to be pointing to.

[fatlever]

you clearly are still missing my point about the archetype of player - Defensive guards - And how this playoff series and recent playoffs in general have boosted the value of those types of players, which could potentially be the tipping point for why the Sixers would lean towards vj over ace, tre or kon.
You act like I'm suggesting the Sixers pick a random mid 1st round guy at 3. I'm just saying if the Sixers view those three players as roughly equal or in a similar tier, which is very possible, Then it is not a stretch to see the correlation between how OKC plays and how that might factor into why they might pick vj over the other 2, Especially if they are trying to maximize the short window they have left with embiid. The Sixers don't need to take a swing on another superstar to pair next to embiid and maxey... They are in a lucky position to pick the guy that is going to give them the best chance at winning a championship title in the next 4 years.

It's not a crazy theory to suggest that teams make draft decisions based on the current way the league is trending.

Anyway I'm done with this conversation. I don't want to derail the tre thread any further.