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2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1001 » by tontoz » Mon May 19, 2025 7:57 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:That's not saying much. Maluach is pretty immobile too. But at least Maluach is immobile while having a 7'-6" wingspan and a 9'-7" standing reach. Yang is immobile while having a wingspan no bigger than Bilal's.



Actually Maluach has a standing reach of 9'6. Yang is at 9'3.

Lane agility
Yang 11.79
Maluach 12.05

Shuttle
Yang 3.01
Maluach 3.44

Sprint
Yang 3.38
Maluach 3.5

I think the additional mobility is more than enough to make up for the 3" difference in standing reach.

I mixed up the reach and wingspan measurements. Maluach has a 7-'7" wingspan and a 9'-6 reach (not 7-6 and 9-7). 3 inches of reach and 4 inches of wingspan is a big deal. Those couple of inches are the difference between blocking a shot and merely challenging a shot.



Those few inches didn't seem to matter much in college. 2.9 stocks per 40 are pretty lame. Kat had 5.1 per 40.

Probably because he is slow with a weak motor.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1002 » by nate33 » Mon May 19, 2025 8:08 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:

Actually Maluach has a standing reach of 9'6. Yang is at 9'3.

Lane agility
Yang 11.79
Maluach 12.05

Shuttle
Yang 3.01
Maluach 3.44

Sprint
Yang 3.38
Maluach 3.5

I think the additional mobility is more than enough to make up for the 3" difference in standing reach.

I mixed up the reach and wingspan measurements. Maluach has a 7-'7" wingspan and a 9'-6 reach (not 7-6 and 9-7). 3 inches of reach and 4 inches of wingspan is a big deal. Those couple of inches are the difference between blocking a shot and merely challenging a shot.



Those few inches didn't seem to matter much in college. 2.9 stocks per 40 are pretty lame. Kat had 5.1 per 40.

Probably because he is slow with a weak motor.

To be honest, after seeing Maluach's combine scores, I'm not particularly interested in him either. There is scant evidence that anybody can have success at the NBA level with a lane agility score above 12. The only guys that do are the ones with insane standing reaches (which, to be fair, Maluach does). But even those guys aren't really game changers - not unless they bring an unusual offensive skill like a 3-ball.

Maluach basically looks like another Donovan Clingan. That's not a terrible thing, but not really something I'd be excited to draft at #6 either. A pick of Maluach would be a bet that he has a lot of athletic improvement in his future just by getting proper physical training. If he remains as immobile as he is right now, he won't be that good.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1003 » by tontoz » Mon May 19, 2025 8:15 pm

nate33 wrote:To be honest, after seeing Maluach's combine scores, I'm not particularly interested in him either. There is scant evidence that anybody can have success at the NBA level with a lane agility score above 12. The only guys that do are the ones with insane standing reaches (which, to be fair, Maluach does). But even those guys aren't really game changers - not unless they bring an unusual offensive skill like a 3-ball.

Maluach basically looks like another Donovan Clingan. That's not a terrible thing, but not really something I'd be excited to draft at #6 either. A pick of Maluach would be a bet that he has a lot of athletic improvement in his future just by getting proper physical training. If he remains as immobile as he is right now, he won't be that good.


Clingan has a good motor and is a legit defensive center. His problem is on offense. He showed he could play defense in college.

But I just dont like drafting centers high as we've discussed before. If Maluach showed he can be a true impact player on both ends then i would be ok taking him at 6. To me he hasn't proven much on either end.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1004 » by 80sballboy » Mon May 19, 2025 8:17 pm

Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1005 » by tontoz » Mon May 19, 2025 8:23 pm

80sballboy wrote:Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/



That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1006 » by 80sballboy » Mon May 19, 2025 8:27 pm

tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/



That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.


That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1007 » by Frichuela » Mon May 19, 2025 8:44 pm

80sballboy wrote:
tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/



That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.


That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.


This argument also applies to Queen by the way…
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1008 » by tontoz » Mon May 19, 2025 8:45 pm

80sballboy wrote:
tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/



That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.


That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.



That is where production comes in, or lack thereof. Clingan was similarly slow but has a good motor which showed in his production.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1009 » by doclinkin » Mon May 19, 2025 9:19 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:Khaman Maluach is after Queen. I would need to see him palm the ball in the post before I selected him.


Ah here he is, our guy Wiznasty with at least one thing per post that is just a little bit loopy. Explain for me please why you think there is a problem with the hands of a guy who scores 75% from 2, and only turns the ball twice per 100 possessions. One thing I would say, since you will appreciate the change, check out Maluach's play for the Uganda City Oilers in the Africa league. Totally different player. Footwork, mobility, activity on the boards. I actually think an issue with his play for Duke is that he has put on too much muscle. Helped him on the interior and scoring in traffic, but slowed his footspeed down. Still, he has the balance of a soccer player, which helps him stay in a defensive crouch and backpedal when recovering from guarding the outside. He can bowleg with the pro legs.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1010 » by dckingsfan » Mon May 19, 2025 9:27 pm

nate33 wrote:
tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:That's not saying much. Maluach is pretty immobile too. But at least Maluach is immobile while having a 7'-6" wingspan and a 9'-7" standing reach. Yang is immobile while having a wingspan no bigger than Bilal's.

Actually Maluach has a standing reach of 9'6. Yang is at 9'3.

Lane agility
Yang 11.79
Maluach 12.05

Shuttle
Yang 3.01
Maluach 3.44

Sprint
Yang 3.38
Maluach 3.5

I think the additional mobility is more than enough to make up for the 3" difference in standing reach.

I mixed up the reach and wingspan measurements. Maluach has a 7-'7" wingspan and a 9'-6 reach (not 7-6 and 9-7). 3 inches of reach and 4 inches of wingspan is a big deal. Those couple of inches are the difference between blocking a shot and merely challenging a shot.

I think the point is that Yang could be really good offensively. I think Maluach's ceiling on D is much higher.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1011 » by doclinkin » Mon May 19, 2025 9:28 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
closg00 wrote:A team with the luxury to gamble is going to be happy to take Queen, the logic of upside potential applies to him like any other FRP. Queen can still turn into a low-block monster when he fills-out and turns fat into muscle, dropping out of the lottery will really motivate him to do so.
Yep. Things are going to work out for the young man.

I honestly hope he doesn't end up with the Wizards.


This is an odd take to me. If the Wiz take him its because they are confident that they can coach him up on defense, build his body, and add that outside jumper he only rarely showed. They trust their developmental plan and take him for his smarts and character. Not sure why you wouldn't want that on your home team, OR why you think this team would be bad for him. He'd get all the minutes he needed, developing next to Sarr, and if we lost a few games while he worked himself into shape, that's fine. Kyshawn showed up kinda soft-serve himself at the start of the year but has gotten fitter and stronger. I think DQ would benefit from having Marcus Smart in his ear -- or on his a55-- teaching him defensive tips and coaching him up.

I'm fine if we get Queen with that 18th pick. I expect we will do something else at 6 (dump a mess of 2nd rounders to Philly to trade up for Ace if we can. Maybe with a Middleton sign and trade). But if he lands here it is because they believe in him and I think would be an ideal situation for him to play next to his lil Bmore bro Bub.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1012 » by dckingsfan » Mon May 19, 2025 9:29 pm

tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
tontoz wrote:That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.

That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.

That is where production comes in, or lack thereof. Clingan was similarly slow but has a good motor which showed in his production.

Clingan also needs to work on his body. He seems to be doing so and his quickness seems to be improving. Clingan is already a very good rebounder and shot blocker. I "think" we would need to be patient on Maluach if we take him... he would very much be a work in progress (as is Clingan).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1013 » by tontoz » Mon May 19, 2025 9:32 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
tontoz wrote:
80sballboy wrote:That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.

That is where production comes in, or lack thereof. Clingan was similarly slow but has a good motor which showed in his production.

Clingan also needs to work on his body. He seems to be doing so and his quickness seems to be improving. Clingan is already a very good rebounder and shot blocker. I "think" we would need to be patient on Maluach if we take him... he would very much be a work in progress (as is Clingan).



Clingan was a good rebounder and shot blocker in college. It shouldn't be surprising that it's translated to the pros.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1014 » by Dat2U » Mon May 19, 2025 9:48 pm

Egor Demin = Euro Issac Bonga
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1015 » by AFM » Mon May 19, 2025 9:53 pm

doclinkin wrote:
WizarDynasty wrote:Khaman Maluach is after Queen. I would need to see him palm the ball in the post before I selected him.


Ah here he is, our guy Wiznasty with at least one thing per post that is just a little bit loopy. Explain for me please why you think there is a problem with the hands of a guy who scores 75% from 2, and only turns the ball twice per 100 possessions. One thing I would say, since you will appreciate the change, check out Maluach's play for the Uganda City Oilers in the Africa league. Totally different player. Footwork, mobility, activity on the boards. I actually think an issue with his play for Duke is that he has put on too much muscle. Helped him on the interior and scoring in traffic, but slowed his footspeed down. Still, he has the balance of a soccer player, which helps him stay in a defensive crouch and backpedal when recovering from guarding the outside. He can bowleg with the pro legs.


He may have come about it in a particular way but our boy WizD arrived at the correct conclusion
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1016 » by AFM » Mon May 19, 2025 9:57 pm

Frichuela wrote:
80sballboy wrote:
tontoz wrote:

That article is incomplete because he only looks at athletic testing, completely ignoring measurements.


That was the point. We're talking about subpar athletes who or may not measure up. If you have length like Gobert or KD, it can hide some athletic deficiencies. A guy like Kneuppel has neither, but has an incredible IQ for a young player. I still wouldn't take him at 6, but I'd consider Maluach depending on who is available due to the wingspan.


This argument also applies to Queen by the way…


Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1017 » by Dat2U » Mon May 19, 2025 9:58 pm

Jase Richardson has no right hand at all smh. I can't rationalize taking an off-ball 6-2 guard without.freakish athleticism or elite skill. He has neither. Smart kid but unless he falls to the 2nd round, im out.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1018 » by doclinkin » Mon May 19, 2025 9:58 pm

Same way I thought last draft was a good draft for guards, this draft is deep in intriguing bigs. There are a lot of frontcourt players who stayed in the draft that I will be happy to land if we take them. If we catch a guy at 6 okay, though they seem to be deep lower down. I still like Malauch, but an inch or so less since his reach is not the 9'8" the rumors suggested. Still long, and less than a handful of players in the dbase have a wider wingspan, but I was boggled by the freak aspect where he had an inch of stretch over Wemby and Gobert. If Dawk and all like him, I'm fine with the selection. If not I know there will be a useful Big lower down who can play with and next to Sarr.

Picking at 6 is an interesting spot. I think there's a decent chance we trade up to 3 or 4 for Ace. His stock is so volatile, the teams that love him love him, but Morey is analytics obsessed and Ace has holes to his game. Philly may be in win-now mode so they may be looking to trade back for a player and lower pick. Naturally what they'd want most is to dump PG13 and I can imagine they'd love a Smart + KMidd deal if Khris picked up his one year option. They could clear their books in one year when they both expired. But we'd be carrying the casket of PG13s contract for a few years. I'd want a haul of picks, not just to jump a few spots this year. Still maybe someone trades into #3 after falling in love with the athleticism and work ethic of Edgecombe (maybe not a great fit with short guards Maxey and McCain). Which would kick Ace down to #4.

At #4 the Hornets have their guy already in the same spot & role. I would not be startled if the blue-bugs selected Maluach as a replacement for the hazardous waste that is apparently in Mark Williams medical chart. But why not take him at 6 if the Wiz were offering a fistful of 2nd rounders to hop up. If Edgecombe is there I bet they'd take him, as an on-ball defender who can pressure the opponents and free up Ball to not care at all on that end. His bounce will look good as a finisher for Melo's creative passing, and he won't need an advanced handle. A good fit. But if he has already been taken I don't doubt they'd pick up a phone call.

For obvious reasons you can see the Jazz taking Kon Knoeppel at #5. He has a complete game, smart off the ball, solid through and through if a step slow on defense. They have so many holes and needs though I don't expect they'd pass up a top talent like Ace. A nice consolation prize for slipping as far as they could. They are deep in picks but Ainge is notorious for hoarding picks in order to land talent then use the talent for big trades. If they could extort a bundle of 2nd rounders from the Wiz as a sweetener for letting us take the kid, Ainge would find a way to make it work.

I can see a few avenues where the Wiz are able to pull that top 3 level talent to the team best suited to help him develop. We can't get to #2 I don't think, there will be too many bidders, too high. But Harper would endanger the tank in ways that I don't think Ace would. I like the look of adding the kid here, where can grow into his game and eventually we phase out Poole for a 2-way wing that has the reach of a power forward and the upside of an all-star.

Then we pick an productive Big lower down, maybe use the #40 to move up and get a guy they really like. I call that a productive draft.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1019 » by Dat2U » Mon May 19, 2025 10:01 pm

How much more valuable would Kispert be if he had a stronger lower body, actually shot 3s well and was pretty good at running P&Rs? That's Kon Knueppel in a nutshell.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 2 

Post#1020 » by AFM » Mon May 19, 2025 10:04 pm

Piggybacking off our convo about height earlier, anyone notice Bailey was listed at 6'10 all season and measured in at 6'7.25"?


I'm thinking of starting a sock company aimed at NBA prospects. Extra thick 1" sole socks.

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