2025 EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: #3 New York Knicks vs #4 Indiana Pacers (IND leads 1-0)

[xBulletproof]

Anyway, see you guys Wednesday. It's exhausting going in circles for days when nothing has happened to change the discourse.

[NYKnickerbocker]

I have to ask. Which things are those? Which offensive skill are the Pacers not good at?

Who is the elite scorer on your team? The guy that can get a bucket when everything is going wrong, and you just need someone that can clear out and get his if all the passing isn't working?

Hali is the one that generally takes the big shots in close games. He's damn good in them as well, shooting 10/11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes of a game this year.

Elite scorers flanked by 3 point shooters is what we struggled with the most this season, because we refused to switch and would play in a drop. You don't have the elite scorer, and having seen this team switch and keep the Celtics in check, I just don't see what is so special about a team that plays at a fast pace & relies on committee scoring because they don't have a singular elite scorer. If the pace drops down to our level, how do you win?

How often have you watched the Pacers? Have you watched our playoff series' this year? If you did, I'm not sure you'd be asking these questions.

Because you're hilariously underselling what the Pacers do on the offensive end here. That'd be like one of us summing up the Knicks' offense as just "Jalen Brunson isos".

Both teams are way more than that. You'll see when the games begin. I'm gonna echo Capn'O here, is it Wednesday already?

you pretty much can sum the Knicks offense up as Jalen Brunson ISOs lmao.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

There’s nothing special about the Pacers. They suck and only win games because of injuries. Lottery team otherwise.

There's nothing special about them, I don't think they suck, but the way you guys are talking about them you'd think they were the 2017 Warriors.

I think you could benefit from watching the video I posted earlier. Even the guys who cover the Knicks understand how big of a hurdle this Pacers offense should be. One of the guys who cover the Knicks even picked the Pacers.

You're talking about the physical aspect of the game, how guys line up and play 1v1, but the part of the game that the Pacers are going to put pressure on is the mental aspect. It's just different than how most any other teams play. You've got to know your coverages and where you need to be at certain times. It's not about just lining up and stopping the guy in front of you.

No, I'm not talking about just physicality, I'm talking about the ball being swung to the corner to Nesmith, instead of Kyle Kuzma closing out on him it'll be Mikal Bridges or Anunoby, you're going to get guys in rotation that can slide their feet when you put the ball on the deck from the 3 point line, not Gary Trent or Ty Jerome.


I mean, we can point to the games this year, but you'll say something about a player being out, while neglecting the fact we've played you all season without Mitch, and even beat you without OG in a game.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

There's nothing special about them, I don't think they suck, but the way you guys are talking about them you'd think they were the 2017 Warriors.

I think you could benefit from watching the video I posted earlier. Even the guys who cover the Knicks understand how big of a hurdle this Pacers offense should be. One of the guys who cover the Knicks even picked the Pacers.

You're talking about the physical aspect of the game, how guys line up and play 1v1, but the part of the game that the Pacers are going to put pressure on is the mental aspect. It's just different than how most any other teams play. You've got to know your coverages and where you need to be at certain times. It's not about just lining up and stopping the guy in front of you.

No, I'm not talking about just physicality, I'm talking about the ball being swung to the corner to Nesmith, instead of Kyle Kuzma closing out on him it'll be Mikal Bridges or Anunoby, you're going to get guys in rotation that can slide their feet when you put the ball on the deck from the 3 point line, not Gary Trent or Ty Jerome.


I mean, we can point to the games this year, but you'll say something about a player being out, while neglecting the fact we've played you all season without Mitch, and even beat you without OG in a game.

Agreed man.

The Pacers aren’t going to be able to do anything against the Knicks defense. If the Pacers score more than 80 points in a game it will be sheer luck.

Easiest 4-0 in conference finals history.

[Wolfgang630]

bing bong

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I think you could benefit from watching the video I posted earlier. Even the guys who cover the Knicks understand how big of a hurdle this Pacers offense should be. One of the guys who cover the Knicks even picked the Pacers.

You're talking about the physical aspect of the game, how guys line up and play 1v1, but the part of the game that the Pacers are going to put pressure on is the mental aspect. It's just different than how most any other teams play. You've got to know your coverages and where you need to be at certain times. It's not about just lining up and stopping the guy in front of you.

No, I'm not talking about just physicality, I'm talking about the ball being swung to the corner to Nesmith, instead of Kyle Kuzma closing out on him it'll be Mikal Bridges or Anunoby, you're going to get guys in rotation that can slide their feet when you put the ball on the deck from the 3 point line, not Gary Trent or Ty Jerome.


I mean, we can point to the games this year, but you'll say something about a player being out, while neglecting the fact we've played you all season without Mitch, and even beat you without OG in a game.

Agreed man.

The Pacers aren’t going to be able to do anything against the Knicks defense. If the Pacers score more than 80 points in a game it will be sheer luck.

Easiest 4-0 in conference finals history.

Do a cartwheel bro, it's a cooler way to get attention.

[Capn'O]

Anyway, see you guys Wednesday. It's exhausting going in circles for days when nothing has happened to change the discourse.

This is a really long wait. Who do I complain to?

[cgf]

Who is the elite scorer on your team? The guy that can get a bucket when everything is going wrong, and you just need someone that can clear out and get his if all the passing isn't working?

we don't play much iso-ball and the player we have that is best at creating a shot for himself is probably Mathurin. I wouldn't call him an elite scorer though. so if the answer you're looking for is we don't have one, you'd be right, but we don't see that as a problem.

It's not a problem, until it becomes one. You have played two teams with zero perimeter defenders between them, like absolutely none, even if you say Brunson is a poor defender, he's better than Garland, Ty Jerome, Lillard, Gary Trent, Kuzma, AJ Green, Kevin Porter etc. I mean seriously, the amount of just flat out awful perimeter defenders the Pacers have gone against is unreal. I think the best perimeter defender you have faced is either Max Struss or Dean Wade, that is absurd.


Creation becomes more important when the opponents have a couple perimeter defenders that can switch onto bigs, and I like my chances with KAT or Mitch getting Tyrese on a switch, since they've just dealt with Tatum, Brown and White.

Dean Wade makes Mitch look like an iron man, but he’s a good defender when on the court. Even gave Jalen some problems.

[cgf]

Who wins the Nemhard / Neismeth vs Hart / Mikal matchup and the bench impact will probably win this series. Assuming Haliburton / Siakam / Turner & Brunson / OG / KAT do their thing for the most part. Swap out Mikal or OG for each other.

My take is it will comedown to what you highlighted the bench. More specifically do the knicks suffer a fatigue penalty in these games. Tibs notoriously doesn't play his bench. Even by his standards he's gutted the bench this post-season.

The Knicks are running a 7 man rotation in which four players play 35, with Bridges, OG and Brunson logging 39. Indy is running a 9 man rotation in which Haliburton plays the most at just under 35.

Can the Knicks starts handle the extra minutes without giving out down the stretch? The answer to that question will decide the series.

not taking these extra 4-5 min seriously at this point, they are used to it now and it isn't this huge deal, They will prob extend and play an 8th man.

Will be really interesting if their pace & depth can force us to play an 8th man. We got murdered in the precious minutes by Boston, and Payne has been playing like an idiot since game 1 against Cleveland. So maybe Shamet if he’s still got his shooting rhythm? I liked his chippy defense this season and teams respect his shot.

[sp6r=underrated]

My take is it will comedown to what you highlighted the bench. More specifically do the knicks suffer a fatigue penalty in these games. Tibs notoriously doesn't play his bench. Even by his standards he's gutted the bench this post-season.

The Knicks are running a 7 man rotation in which four players play 35, with Bridges, OG and Brunson logging 39. Indy is running a 9 man rotation in which Haliburton plays the most at just under 35.

Can the Knicks starts handle the extra minutes without giving out down the stretch? The answer to that question will decide the series.

not taking these extra 4-5 min seriously at this point, they are used to it now and it isn't this huge deal, They will prob extend and play an 8th man.

Will be really interesting if their pace & depth can force us to play an 8th man. We got murdered in the precious minutes by Boston, and Payne has been playing like an idiot since game 1 against Cleveland. So maybe Shamet if he’s still got his shooting rhythm? I liked his chippy defense this season and teams respect his shot.

If we're not going to play an 8th man in close games Thibs has to be quicker to pull our guys in blowouts (either way). I just don't think he can run this short of a bench without someone giving out.

[Nuntius]

By the way, I just saw that I didn't respond to this post. Here goes then:

Pace is pace at the end of the day, the amount of possessions per game between you and the Pistons is very similar, you're just more efficient on offense, they pushed when they could but the threat of them getting out never stopped Robinson from rebounding or pressuring them, and it had the inverse impact which is they didn't run as much because they had to try and gang rebound when he was on the court. In that series last season we controlled the pace against you, I think we can do that again. Also, the Pistons pressed with Ausar, he would pick up Brunson full court at times, so we've seen some pressure on him full court.

Pace is pace but what you do with it matters. We were more efficient than the Pistons exactly because we did things differently than they did.

Now, I do agree that it may not stop Robinson from crashing the boards. That's definitely a possibility. It will be a back and forth between two different philosophies and we'll see who has to adjust first. IF someone adjusts, of course. It's possible that both teams choose to just stick to their guns and live with the results.

As for the press, we don't press with just one guy. We have 4 guys (Nembhard, Nesmith, Sheppard, McConnell) that will pick up full court. Brunson can handle the press, that's a given. He may even get screens at mid-court to break the press, reject those screens and it's off to the races for a bucket or a good look. But it will be taxing for him. So, you may try to bring the ball up with Hart, Mikal or OG. But we will press those guys too. And we will also press McBride off the bench.

The point is, that we have the bodies to throw at your ball-handlers. We will pressure them and that may end up speeding you up. And if we succeed in speeding your guys up then the pace is going to be in our favour.

The passes per game is just the nature of teams with elite shot creators, almost every team with a 25+ppg primary ball handler is in the bottom half of team passes made per game rankings.

Do you remember the other team that was consistently up there with us when it came to passes per game? It was the Warriors. Isn't Curry an elite shot creator and a 25 PPG primary ball handler for his career?

The third team when it comes to passes per game in this playoffs? The Timberwolves. Again, isn't Ant an elite shot creator and a 25+ PPG primary ball handler?

You are trying to paint this as a bad thing but it's not.

Your offense tries to get guys in rotation, and while we have struggled with that in the past it was mostly against teams with an elite scorer, and because we refused to switch. In that Celtics series we were switching, which is really the first time Thibs has done that, and it's one of the main reasons we beat the Celtics, because we finally just lived with the results of switching and not sinking to protect the paint every single time someone drove.

One of the reasons why you beat the Celtics (and that was especially the case for the first two games) was that they fell into your trap and started iso'ing against your defenders. They stopped moving the ball, they stopped attacking the paint and played isolation basketball instead. We aren't going to do that.

Your offense makes a lot of passes out of necessity

Nope. We have simply structured our offense in a way that takes full advantage of our best player's elite skills. That elite skill is to find crevasses in the opposing defense and mercilessly attack them. It could be a defender ball-watching, it could be a scram switch that was a tad late, it could be a bad close out, it could just be a mismatch. We find the weakness and we attack it. The passing isn't a necessity. It's what enables all of it. It's an integral part of our identity.

I think it's fair to say that Siakam is probably your best isolation scorer

In the post, sure.

it's not like Haliburton is going to clear out against elite man to man defenders and get a bucket, right?

Not 20 times in a game but he can definitely do it when needed. He did it twice against Giannis in that game 5. One to force OT and the other to win the game.

He'll call for a screen, but what I'm hoping for is that Turner has OG on him, so that calling for a screen from him just results in a switch, after that I can live with Turner trying to post up Hart or Mikal.

If Turner has OG on him then who guards Siakam? And what stops us from using Siakam as the screen man? If screening with Siakam is what gives us the best mismatch then that's what we're going to do. That's what we did in game against the Cavs, for example.

Per 100 possessions you guys are the 2nd worst rebounding team in the playoffs, and the absolute worst offensive rebounding by a very wide margin, there's not a lot of second chance points coming your way.

Sure. But we also have the least offensive rebounding chances than any other team in the playoffs. Wanna guess why? It's because we're shooting better than any other team by a significant margin. Our FG% so far in the playoffs is 50.1%. Yes, we're shooting better than 50%. 2nd best were the Clippers at 48.6% and third best were the Cavs at 46.6% (largely due to their historic series against Miami). It's not easy to get offensive rebounds when you keep making your shots

Your offense is prettier and more complex than ours, but with that complexity comes more things that can go wrong. We're a sledgehammer in comparison, simple and not much can go wrong outside of meeting up with a harder compound, and I don't think the Pacers are a harder compound

As I've said, it will be a very, very interesting series. Let's see how it goes

[LFGK]

not taking these extra 4-5 min seriously at this point, they are used to it now and it isn't this huge deal, They will prob extend and play an 8th man.

Will be really interesting if their pace & depth can force us to play an 8th man. We got murdered in the precious minutes by Boston, and Payne has been playing like an idiot since game 1 against Cleveland. So maybe Shamet if he’s still got his shooting rhythm? I liked his chippy defense this season and teams respect his shot.

If we're not going to play an 8th man in close games Thibs has to be quicker to pull our guys in blowouts (either way). I just don't think he can run this short of a bench without someone giving out.

Why? The way ppl are talking is as if our guys are playing 48 minutes and other teams guys are playing 30 Min, it isn't a huge differences literally talking 3-5 min man the rugs are accustom to it by now

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

No, I'm not talking about just physicality, I'm talking about the ball being swung to the corner to Nesmith, instead of Kyle Kuzma closing out on him it'll be Mikal Bridges or Anunoby, you're going to get guys in rotation that can slide their feet when you put the ball on the deck from the 3 point line, not Gary Trent or Ty Jerome.


I mean, we can point to the games this year, but you'll say something about a player being out, while neglecting the fact we've played you all season without Mitch, and even beat you without OG in a game.

Agreed man.

The Pacers aren’t going to be able to do anything against the Knicks defense. If the Pacers score more than 80 points in a game it will be sheer luck.

Easiest 4-0 in conference finals history.

Do a cartwheel bro, it's a cooler way to get attention.

I don’t understand?

You’re telling us there is nothing special about the Pacers and how the Knicks are better at every position, and that all the things that have led to the Pacers success won’t be able to happen against the Knicks. I’m just agreeing with you, what’s the problem?

[Nuntius]

Who is the elite scorer on your team? The guy that can get a bucket when everything is going wrong, and you just need someone that can clear out and get his if all the passing isn't working?

Hali is the one that generally takes the big shots in close games. He's damn good in them as well, shooting 10/11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes of a game this year.

Elite scorers flanked by 3 point shooters is what we struggled with the most this season, because we refused to switch and would play in a drop. You don't have the elite scorer, and having seen this team switch and keep the Celtics in check, I just don't see what is so special about a team that plays at a fast pace & relies on committee scoring because they don't have a singular elite scorer. If the pace drops down to our level, how do you win?

How often have you watched the Pacers? Have you watched our playoff series' this year? If you did, I'm not sure you'd be asking these questions.

Because you're hilariously underselling what the Pacers do on the offensive end here. That'd be like one of us summing up the Knicks' offense as just "Jalen Brunson isos".

Both teams are way more than that. You'll see when the games begin. I'm gonna echo Capn'O here, is it Wednesday already?

you pretty much can sum the Knicks offense up as Jalen Brunson ISOs lmao.

Nah. You really can't. If that was all your offense was about then you wouldn't be in the Conference Finals. Isolation basketball doesn't win anymore. It's only a last resort. Give your team more credit than that.

[Nuntius]

Who is the elite scorer on your team? The guy that can get a bucket when everything is going wrong, and you just need someone that can clear out and get his if all the passing isn't working?

Hali is the one that generally takes the big shots in close games. He's damn good in them as well, shooting 10/11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes of a game this year.

Elite scorers flanked by 3 point shooters is what we struggled with the most this season, because we refused to switch and would play in a drop. You don't have the elite scorer, and having seen this team switch and keep the Celtics in check, I just don't see what is so special about a team that plays at a fast pace & relies on committee scoring because they don't have a singular elite scorer. If the pace drops down to our level, how do you win?

How often have you watched the Pacers? Have you watched our playoff series' this year? If you did, I'm not sure you'd be asking these questions.

Because you're hilariously underselling what the Pacers do on the offensive end here. That'd be like one of us summing up the Knicks' offense as just "Jalen Brunson isos".

Both teams are way more than that. You'll see when the games begin. I'm gonna echo Capn'O here, is it Wednesday already?

I watched most their playoff games this season, while he's been clutch, will be very different taking a shot like that down the stretch with OG or Bridges on him with Mitch rite behind them rather then that Scrub Ty Jerome, Knicks have wings and a block threat in the middle the pacers haven't seen yet.

I definitely agree that the Knicks have much better wing defenders than the ones we've faced so far. That's a given.

But the Knicks haven't faced an offense that moves the ball as much as we do either. It will be a change of pace for both teams which is what makes it so interesting.

[Capn'O]

It sucks that injuries have played such a prominent role in playoff series of late. A lot of great stars went down this year alone. I would have loved to have seen how Wolves/Ws shook out at full strength whereas it turned into a bit of a cakewalk without Curry. Ultimately, you play who's in front of you. If it's your team, maybe you feel like something different would've happened at full strength but that wasn't how the chips fell.

Knicks went all out to grab the 2 seed all year last year and then Embiid did what he did. We paced ourselves much better this season for a playoff run. I'm glad we're seeing these two teams go at it at full strength, at least to start the series. As I said in the C's thread, I was actually relieved after G7 last season that our season ended without suffering something that would be tough to come back from long term. That we didn't have a Tatum injury.

Is it Wednesday yet?

The Warriors were too small for Karl & OG while Brunson was out, they were never gunna be able to deal with Rudy, Juju, McD, and Naz.

Well well well how the turntables...

[LFGK]

Hali is the one that generally takes the big shots in close games. He's damn good in them as well, shooting 10/11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes of a game this year.



How often have you watched the Pacers? Have you watched our playoff series' this year? If you did, I'm not sure you'd be asking these questions.

Because you're hilariously underselling what the Pacers do on the offensive end here. That'd be like one of us summing up the Knicks' offense as just "Jalen Brunson isos".

Both teams are way more than that. You'll see when the games begin. I'm gonna echo Capn'O here, is it Wednesday already?

I watched most their playoff games this season, while he's been clutch, will be very different taking a shot like that down the stretch with OG or Bridges on him with Mitch rite behind them rather then that Scrub Ty Jerome, Knicks have wings and a block threat in the middle the pacers haven't seen yet.

I definitely agree that the Knicks have much better wing defenders than the ones we've faced so far. That's a given.

But the Knicks haven't faced an offense that moves the ball as much as we do either. It will be a change of pace for both teams which is what makes it so interesting.

Whipping the ball around, ok but I also don't think the Pacer offense is better then the Celtics and outside the one game Tatum was unconscious OG held the guy in front of him to 22% from the field, Bridges was pretty ridiculous as well. Would be nice if it was a good series, I truly don't see it, I think the Knicks are a nightmare matchup for the pacers

[bronxknicksfan1]

My only question for the Pacers fans in here…

Who’s better? Pacers or Celtics?

[Nuntius]

I'm fine with that, it's like 40% of our offense

I've watched you all playoffs, and in the games against us. To this point you have not played against a single solitary perimeter defender that's good, let alone great. I want to put things in perspective, Nembhard has played great so far, but these are the people he's been defended by -




I can do this with Nesmith and Halliburton as well, it's just a who's who list of garbage perimeter defenders. Guys who cannot keep a man in front of them, and also cannot switch onto larger players.

As I said, I agree that we haven't faced perimeter defenders as good as the ones the Knicks have. But if we're gonna be talking about the RS (since you mentioned the games we've played), you can ask fans of teams with great perimeter defenders like Detroit, Minny and Houston how our offense fared against their defenders. A 6-2 record against those great defenses is pretty good, isn't it?

Speaking of defense, Haliburton will not have a break in this series the way he has in the last two, he's either going to have to defend someone, or try his best to keep Hart off the glass.

I said it before the Cavs series but Haliburton is no Tyler Herro. At 16 total stocks (9 blocks, 7 steals) in these 10 games and with multiple defensive crucial defensive stops in the 4th quarter in both series, I'd say that he's more than holding his own on that end.

You're right, we will see, and I think you're going to find out quickly that crude, ugly basketball can sap the life out of a more elegant & pretty game.

And who told you that we cannot respond in an ugly and physical game?

Remember, we played a 7 game series against the Nova Knicks last year. That team was incredibly tough and its toughness rubbed off on us. It helped us grow immensely.

[doogie_hauser]

[Youtube]https://youtu.be/QsFBNWtqxBQ?si=nr607q6q5cwmHBlt[/Youtube]