2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A team with the luxury to gamble is going to be happy to take Queen, the logic of upside potential applies to him like any other FRP. Queen can still turn into a low-block monster when he fills-out and turns fat into muscle, dropping out of the lottery will really motivate him to do so.

Yep. Things are going to work out for the young man.

I honestly hope he doesn't end up with the Wizards.

This is an odd take to me. If the Wiz take him its because they are confident that they can coach him up on defense, build his body, and add that outside jumper he only rarely showed. They trust their developmental plan and take him for his smarts and character. Not sure why you wouldn't want that on your home team, OR why you think this team would be bad for him. He'd get all the minutes he needed, developing next to Sarr, and if we lost a few games while he worked himself into shape, that's fine. Kyshawn showed up kinda soft-serve himself at the start of the year but has gotten fitter and stronger. I think DQ would benefit from having Marcus Smart in his ear -- or on his a55-- teaching him defensive tips and coaching him up.

I'm fine if we get Queen with that 18th pick. I expect we will do something else at 6 (dump a mess of 2nd rounders to Philly to trade up for Ace if we can. Maybe with a Middleton sign and trade). But if he lands here it is because they believe in him and I think would be an ideal situation for him to play next to his lil Bmore bro Bub.

My emotions are all over the place with DQ. Of course, I want the Wizards to draft him!

However, Queen would have it made if he falls to OKC. San Antonio would be a much better landing spot. Houston already has an offense centered around Sengun. Queen is more crafty. Queen would be a huge upgrade over Wendell Carter Jr. in Orlando.

Washington wants long athletes. Whether dudes can actually ball is an afterthought. The Wizards love growth charts and birth days.

I would rather see DQ have a nice career, even as a backup on a great team, than to become a Wizards afterthought.

I'm not even sure this makes sense...sorry.

(I'm pre-draft stressed.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

A team with the luxury to gamble is going to be happy to take Queen, the logic of upside potential applies to him like any other FRP. Queen can still turn into a low-block monster when he fills-out and turns fat into muscle, dropping out of the lottery will really motivate him to do so.

Yep. Things are going to work out for the young man.

I honestly hope he doesn't end up with the Wizards.

This is an odd take to me. If the Wiz take him its because they are confident that they can coach him up on defense, build his body, and add that outside jumper he only rarely showed. They trust their developmental plan and take him for his smarts and character. Not sure why you wouldn't want that on your home team, OR why you think this team would be bad for him. He'd get all the minutes he needed, developing next to Sarr, and if we lost a few games while he worked himself into shape, that's fine. Kyshawn showed up kinda soft-serve himself at the start of the year but has gotten fitter and stronger. I think DQ would benefit from having Marcus Smart in his ear -- or on his a55-- teaching him defensive tips and coaching him up.

I'm fine if we get Queen with that 18th pick. I expect we will do something else at 6 (dump a mess of 2nd rounders to Philly to trade up for Ace if we can. Maybe with a Middleton sign and trade). But if he lands here it is because they believe in him and I think would be an ideal situation for him to play next to his lil Bmore bro Bub.

PS
I don't think minutes make players better.

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.

Losing repeatedly teaches how to lose. This team wants to tank.

WTF

[AFM]

This argument also applies to Queen by the way…

Not really. When Maluach flunks the sprints and agility drills, it's OK because he fits the Gargantuan Oaf Archetype. When Queen flunks, it's because fat boy isn't disciplined and eats too much cake. And even worse for Queen, basketball isn't a game about putting the ball in the basket (something he's good at), it's about agility drills and shuttle sprints and measurements.

It's simple. Centers are involved in something like 50% of defensive possessions. Most offenses are schemed to pit their team's best and quickest ball handler against the opponent's slowest player. If a team has a really slow player who is also not a long and tall shot blocker, then your team will absolutely suck defensively, at least in the playoffs when the team has the time to work out a scouting report to exploit your slow non-shot-blocker.

In most cases, it's impossible for your center to be so good offensively that he can overcome this massive, team-killing weakness on defense. Look around at the offensively gifted but defensively compromised centers in this league, guys like Vucevic, Nurkic, Bryant, Valanciunas. In every case, their team sucks with them on the floor even if they post good numbers. And Queen is shorter than those guys.

Even Sabonis and Sengun, who are step quicker than the guys I mentioned as well as being the most adept offensively, haven't won a playoff series yet. Jokic is the only exception, and that's because he is the greatest offensive player of all time and he has also improved his conditioning tremendously so that he at least moves well on defense and is in the right place. Also, his ball handling and high post game allow the Nuggets to play through him on virtually every possession. Most good centers are still reliant on quality entry passes or blown pick-and-roll coverage to get the ball so they are unable to carry a high enough usage to alter the game even if they are great offensively when they do get the ball.

The only hope for Queen to be a playoff starter is if he has a radical body transformation like what Julius Randle, Naz Reid, and Udonis Haslem did so that he could move to power forward and guard the position. There's certainly a small chance that could happen, but I wouldn't bet the #6 pick on it.

I don't see why losing 15 lbs is more of a pipe dream than Player A learning to shoot or Player B learning to drive or whatever we say about the dozens of prospects we analyze every year on this board. Either way, I agree with CCJ that the Wizards will not draft him. He will go after 6 but before 18, IMO.

[AFM]

Bub...why did you have to make this...

[nate33]

Some good to great players that didn't do well at the combine
https://hoopshype.com/lists/worst-performing-stars-draft-combine-kawhi-durant/

That's an interesting list.

If one counts wingspan as combine skill, then this list would look completely different. Most of the "bad athletes" who fared well had a wingspan of 7'-3" or better (Gobert, Durant, Lopez, Chandler, Bosh, Kawhi, Aldridge, J.Allen). Or they were great shooters (Klay, Redd, Korver, DeRozan, Middleton, Joe Johnson). Most of the other guys were quick stout guys who had poor vertical leaps but good lane agility (Boozer, Millsap, Draymond).

The only guys that I think I might have dismissed outright based on their combine would have been Deng, West and Butler.

[nate33]

I don't see why losing 15 lbs is more of a pipe dream than Player A learning to shoot or Player B learning to drive or whatever we say about the dozens of prospects we analyze every year on this board. Either way, I agree with CCJ that the Wizards will not draft him. He will go after 6 but before 18, IMO.

Because losing weight is a lot easier than learning to shoot and should already have been done before they went to the combine. The fact that he didn't lose the weight suggests a lack of priorities and/or work ethic. And a lack of work ethic makes such a transformation less likely in the future.

[AFM]

I don't see why losing 15 lbs is more of a pipe dream than Player A learning to shoot or Player B learning to drive or whatever we say about the dozens of prospects we analyze every year on this board. Either way, I agree with CCJ that the Wizards will not draft him. He will go after 6 but before 18, IMO.

Because losing weight is a lot easier than learning to shoot and should already have been done before they went to the combine. The fact that he didn't lose the weight suggests a lack of priorities and/or work ethic. And a lack of work ethic makes such a transformation less likely in the future.

I suppose that's where the interview process comes in. I have faith in Dawkins to do his due diligence. Then again, I am a member of The Cult Of Dawkins apparently so take this all with a grain of salt (sprinkled on a Dairy Queen Blizzard).

[nate33]

I don't see why losing 15 lbs is more of a pipe dream than Player A learning to shoot or Player B learning to drive or whatever we say about the dozens of prospects we analyze every year on this board. Either way, I agree with CCJ that the Wizards will not draft him. He will go after 6 but before 18, IMO.

Because losing weight is a lot easier than learning to shoot and should already have been done before they went to the combine. The fact that he didn't lose the weight suggests a lack of priorities and/or work ethic. And a lack of work ethic makes such a transformation less likely in the future.

I suppose that's where the interview process comes in. I have faith in Dawkins to do his due diligence. Then again, I am a member of The Cult Of Dawkins apparently so take this all with a grain of salt (sprinkled on a Dairy Queen Blizzard).

Fair enough. If there's a good reason why he couldn't lose the weight, and it was something that could be overcome going forward, then it would be worth consideration.

[WizarDynasty]

Khaman Maluach is after Queen. I would need to see him palm the ball in the post before I selected him.

Ah here he is, our guy Wiznasty with at least one thing per post that is just a little bit loopy. Explain for me please why you think there is a problem with the hands of a guy who scores 75% from 2, and only turns the ball twice per 100 possessions. One thing I would say, since you will appreciate the change, check out Maluach's play for the Uganda City Oilers in the Africa league. Totally different player. Footwork, mobility, activity on the boards. I actually think an issue with his play for Duke is that he has put on too much muscle. Helped him on the interior and scoring in traffic, but slowed his footspeed down. Still, he has the balance of a soccer player, which helps him stay in a defensive crouch and backpedal when recovering from guarding the outside. He can bowleg with the pro legs.

Khaman has poor hand coordination. Really poor lateral agility and it looks like he already has knee damage from trying to slow guys down using his knees instead of sliding his chest. I would consider him with a second round pick. Queen looks like an engine. An engine is defined as a player who has the potential to score above .50 with high volume. KAT from the knicks in his prime is an engine. Curry in his prime was an engine. Jordan in his prime was an engine. Tim Duncan an Engine. Shaq an engine. Giannis is an engine. Shai-Alex is an engine. Brunson is an engine. Just look at season stats as player who close to or above 2000 and shoots close to . 50 is an engine. If you want any chance at championship, you have to have at least one on your team.
if you go back in history, you will see that there this is usually the case.
So maybe some here think there are players in this draft who can develop into engines besides DQ? DQ has serious defensive problems just like Carmelo Anthony. Maybe its a bmore thing. Players who can shoot close to 50 percent and rack up close to 2000 points are engines. You have high volume scorers with low efficiency like James Harden, Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Bradley Beal. Very rare to have a shooting guard who is an engine. Usually an engine is a big who can scores with an explosive first step and size.
DQ is the only player in this entire draft that is capable of being an engine? GM is all about strategy. Building a team around an engine. I think that where a GM earns his high salary. I don't see Cooper Flagg as being an engine because he has small forward size and poor handles. REmember hand coordination for a big is very important and you can't teach it. Khaman has no hand coordination and poor lateral footspeed on switches and he no chance at every being an engine in the playoffs.
I don't really worry much because Grunfeld is gone and we have an amazing GM now. AGain, I like Yang but he has huge cultural barrier that will prevent him from leading the team in his early years. By the time he reaches Yao level, he will be in Max contract territory and everyone on the team will have to learn chinese. Bailey is ok 8'11 standing reach is awesome but he plays pretty soft to mean. He doesn't give me scottie pippen vibes. Flagg does not have great body control, i can' see him doing stop and go moves with the ball. He is pretty much take off and no control after his first burst. He has the dimensions of a small forward and his athleticism won't be as big a deal in the NBA. So as long as the GM picks best fit for the team, no biggie. There is no one in this draft that is HOF material. IF DQ develops lateral footspeed, maybe but that almost never happens. He could be a shorter version of KAT as best case scenario. So again, not alot of talent in this draft and there are no all nba players in this draft.
If you can get an engine with positional size, don't hesitate because an engine is very hard to find.

[AFM]

Great post WizD. I agree DQ is the only engine in the draft.

[Dat2U]

I would be pretty unhappy if we walked away with Kasparus and Wolf. No thank you.

Lol. Kasparas has grown on me ... especially after finding out his fall off coincided with an injury he played through. I do buy the Dragic comparisons if hes hitting his jumper. Thats not worth a top 5 pick but mid-to-late lottery is a good spot for him.

Danny Wolf I love. He's the straw that stirs the drink. I view him as a potential hub and offensive floor raiser. Queen as a little more in his toolkit but Wolf's motor runs hot and he's a potential high level processor as well.

[WizarDynasty]

Great post WizD. I agree DQ is the only engine in the draft.

Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance to see diamond dropped by sloppy burgular after a theft.

[AFM]

Great post WizD. I agree DQ is the only engine in the draft.

Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance catch the diamond that burgular drop after a theft.

Gilbert called DQ Baby Jokic the other day.

[PaulinVA]

From No Ceiling's 2025 combine recap:

"I’ve long found Hansen Yang to be a tricky evaluation. The 7’1” prospect out of China was dominant in the CBA, but my lack of familiarity with the league and his unorthodox style have long left me curious as to how much value to put into that. I thought he helped himself at the combine in Chicago. I do still have questions about his defense and his strength. He’s slow-footed and struggles to recover when beaten on the perimeter. He also fell victim to a strip block from Neoklis Avdalas after failing to go up strong enough inside. When he got mismatches against smaller players, he wasn’t able to pound them under the basket.

But my goodness, is this guy skilled. He has baby soft touch and showed off his three-ball. He made some mesmerizing passes, too. What excites me the most about Yang’s playmaking is its functionality. He can look off dimes and wire accurate, clever dishes. But there’s also a lack of nonsense to his approach. He doesn’t take too long to make a decision, so he’s not a guy who is going to see his value diminished in a non-heliocentric role. He also didn’t get overzealous with his approach or force anything, which is admirable from a young player with that type of sauce. And while he may not be the greatest athlete in the world, he is fluid and coordinated, which helps him to block shots inside.

Coming into the week, I was very skeptical of Yang. I do still think he’s going to take time. His jumper hasn’t fully actualized, and he’s not as quick or strong as the most effective players in his archetype. Still, the package of size, feel, and skill here isn’t a super common one. I’m a bigger fan now than I was before."

[tontoz]

I would be pretty unhappy if we walked away with Kasparus and Wolf. No thank you.

Lol. Kasparas has grown on me ... especially after finding out his fall off coincided with an injury he played through. I do buy the Dragic comparisons if hes hitting his jumper. Thats not worth a top 5 pick but mid-to-late lottery is a good spot for him.

Danny Wolf I love. He's the straw that stirs the drink. I view him as a potential hub and offensive floor raiser. Queen as a little more in his toolkit but Wolf's motor runs hot and he's a potential high level processor as well.

I didn't see much variety to Kasparas off the dribble. He kept going to that step back 3 and he doesn't get much separation on that shot.

The turnovers were painful to watch. A lot of forced passes into tight windows that had very little chance to get through.

[dobrojim]

Yeah, kind of my point. Second point is that he seems to be improving his quickness on top of that... that was a really good pick, IMO.

If he had more on offense I would have been advocating for him at 2. He is so limited on offense I just couldn't do it, and it isn't hard to find defensive Cs later in the draft or in free agency.

Well, what I am seeing.

He is going to be a really good defensive C. Drafted at age 19, he rebounds well, blocks shots well and was getting pretty adept at defensive rotations. He is working on his body, foot speed and quickness and I think it is going to translate well to switchability.

On the offensive side of the ball he was "limited" especially early in the season. Then in February he posted a .653 TS, followed by a .571 in April (those are the highlight). That and his picks got progressively better as the season moved along. The real ugly part is his FT percentage - he started out shooting .750ish and then fell into the high .500s. Ouch.

Point two as it pertains to this draft. As Doc mentioned this one is deep with bigs. I really think we should be using one of our FRPs to take at least one big. Several seem to be on the same level as Clingan.

We need someone to play C so Sarr can get non-C
minutes, like Chet and Mobley get. Or maybe Dawkins
will hope Vuc is able to do that. Either way, with
the abundance of seemingly attractive Bigs, we need
to get one.

[WizarDynasty]

Great post WizD. I agree DQ is the only engine in the draft.

Making extreme statements like "only" sounds like there are "no" Jokics in this draft? Jokic is an engine that was drafted in the 2nd round. Always a chance catch the diamond that burgular drop after a theft.

Gilbert called DQ Baby Jokic the other day.

A franchise engine is a player who can shut down his position defensively, and still score above .50 and 2000 per season. SHAQ...JOrdan...Wilt... Prime
Duncan...Prime Hakeem... KG...Prime ...K.Leonard...Prime Kareem...we are talking about top 20 players off all time. Who can be both offensive engines, and shut down their position defensively.
Usually engines are bigs...Dirk..Ewing...Pau Gasol...Bird but rare to have an engine like shai, or Brunson. Any hopefully this helps you guys break group think and keep things light.

[Dat2U]

If were talking about engines, only true engine in this draft is Harper. Queen is an engine in theory only and he would have to transform his body to truly become one.

While I dont agree with WizD on Maluach and knee damage, I do think he's at risk for a lower body injury right now. You see some uncoordinted movements where he's switched on a guard and his knees automatically buckle and go inward but then you see the athleticism to use his 250 ib from to recover and use his momentum to block a shot from behind.

Problem is, his knees buckle alot. The amount of torque its takes for him change directions is just something in the back of my head that I worry about. Doesn't mean its a deal breaker, but working on his lower body so it can better accomodate his frame will need to be a priority for the team that drafts him IMO.

[dobrojim]

I would be pretty unhappy if we walked away with Kasparus and Wolf. No thank you.

That's racist!

I'm joking!!!

[WizarDynasty]

If were talking about engines, only true engine in this draft is Harper. Queen is an engine in theory only and he would have to transform his body to truly become one.

While I dont agree with WizD on Maluach and knee damage, I do think he's at risk for a lower body injury right now. You see some uncoordinted movements where he's switched on a guard and his knees automatically buckle and go inward but then you see the athleticism to use his 250 ib from to recover and use his momentum to block a shot from behind.

Problem is, his knees buckle alot. The amount of torque its takes for him change directions is just something in the back of my head that I worry about. Doesn't mean its a deal breaker, but working on his lower body so it can better accomodate his frame will need to be a priority for the team that drafts him IMO.

Yeah I agree Harper is definitely an Engine. Wow I wish we could get him but we needed the 2nd pick. 18th is not enough to get us there. Remember if you start hearing other boards use engine all of sudden. Or you hear nba commentary start using the word engine, they stole it from me lol.