Celtics More Likely To Trade Jrue Holiday Over Derrick White; Kristaps Porzingis Seen As Most Movable Vet

[RealGM Wiretap]

The Boston Celtics are more likely to trade Jrue Holiday than Derrick White this offseason, according to Marc Stein of The Stein Line.

The 35-year-old Holiday has three years left on his four-year, $134 million deal.

The 31-year-old White's four-year, $134 million deal starts next season.

Stein adds that Kristaps Porzingis is seen as the most gettable veteran from the team. Porzingis will be on an expiring deal worth $30.7 million next year. 

Via Marc Stein/The Stein Line

[TimeisIllmatic]

I wonder what Jrue's trade value would be

[TheCage4]

I can't see too many teams going after Jrue, or White for that matter, with those contracts.

[fuller4379]

Porzingis will only play about 40 games for that $30 million.

[puja21]

I can't see too many teams going after Jrue, or White for that matter, with those contracts.

Yes there won't be an offseason bidding war, but come trade DL who knows

I personally circle back to this point -- it feels like every offseason:

e.g.
Nov 2021 when people said Simmons was untradeable: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=94839495#p94839495
I mentioned a long list of stupid GMs who had previously stunned fans.
And then Feb 2022 Morey got James Harden back for Simmons and completed the prophecy.

There is literally never a situation in the league where all 30 GMs have both job security and competence and you only need to be lacking one to be desperate.

Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Beal etc... all moved (some multiple times) despite having "untradeable contracts"

This is what will almost surely happen:
1) Press will write a bunch of "leaked" comments about Celtics' value of Jrue being "higher" than any offers
2) NBA twitter, RealGM etc will lose their minds and call Boston delusional (their hatred of departed Ainge will probably be mentioned)
3) Holiday will eventually be traded for *something* of value
4) Fans will blame the GM receiving Holiday and call it an anomaly that no one could've predicted.

And then we will rinse and repeat with the next aging/overpaid player a year later.

The Lakers just got Luka for AD. Anything is possible.

[Pickled Prunes]

I wonder what Jrue's trade value would be

A few teams with closing windows (LAL, GSW, PHI, etc...) could really use a player like Jrue. But most teams in that situation don't have much left to trade. Ironically, MIL needs him more than anyone and they have nothing left to trade.

[Pickled Prunes]

I can't see too many teams going after Jrue, or White for that matter, with those contracts.

Yes there won't be an offseason bidding war, but come trade DL who knows

I personally circle back to this point -- it feels like every offseason:

e.g.
Nov 2021 when people said Simmons was untradeable: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=94839495#p94839495
I mentioned a long list of stupid GMs who had previously stunned fans.
And then Feb 2022 Morey got James Harden back for Simmons and completed the prophecy.

There is literally never a situation in the league where all 30 GMs have both job security and competence and you only need to be lacking one to be desperate.

Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Beal etc... all moved (some multiple times) despite having "untradeable contracts"

This is what will almost surely happen:
1) Press will write a bunch of "leaked" comments about Celtics' value of Jrue being "higher" than any offers
2) NBA twitter, RealGM etc will lose their minds and call Boston delusional (their hatred of departed Ainge will probably be mentioned)
3) Holiday will eventually be traded for *something* of value
4) Fans will blame the GM receiving Holiday and call it an anomaly that no one could've predicted.

And then we will rinse and repeat with the next aging/overpaid player a year later.

The Lakers just got Luka for AD. Anything is possible.

I wouldn't call any of the BOS players untradeable. They are positive impact players capable of stepping into larger roles. KP's health makes him the obvious exception, but he is worth his contract if he can play 65 games or so.

The players you mentioned are not like each other. (Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Beal etc... ) Wall was never the same after injury; Westbrook was a good player (in the right situation) on an MVP-level contract; Beal was overpaid as a good player/bad team, but he could (and can) still play; CP3 was always tradeable and clearly PHX underestimated his importance to what they had.

The narrative that PHI traded Simmons for Harden has some serious Morey spin. Simmons was salary filler in that deal.

All that aside, They should trade Jaylen Brown and let these guys build their trade value as they step into those larger roles.

[eureca20]

I wonder what Jrue's trade value would be

A few teams with closing windows (LAL, GSW, PHI, etc...) could really use a player like Jrue. But most teams in that situation don't have much left to trade. Ironically, MIL needs him more than anyone and they have nothing left to trade.

Jrue is days away from being 35 coming off of a year where he showed clear declines. With 3 years left on his deal. I don't think it's a matter of another team having enough to trade. It's a matter if the Celtics have to add more to a deal so that someone would be dumb enough to take his contract.

[Pickled Prunes]

I wonder what Jrue's trade value would be

A few teams with closing windows (LAL, GSW, PHI, etc...) could really use a player like Jrue. But most teams in that situation don't have much left to trade. Ironically, MIL needs him more than anyone and they have nothing left to trade.

Jrue is days away from being 35 coming off of a year where he showed clear declines. With 3 years left on his deal. I don't think it's a matter of another team having enough to trade. It's a matter if the Celtics have to add more to a deal so that someone would be dumb enough to take his contract.

Jrue is getting old. He also lead BOS in FG% in the postseason. Yes, his counting stats have fallen off, but if you give a man six fewer FGA's he's going to score fewer PTS. That's how math works. His FG% is down because over half of his remaining FGA's are 3PT and his 3P% is down because a majority of his 3PT shots are taken late in the clock after watching the J's pound the air out of the ball. His USG% fell from 25% in MIL to 15% in BOS... but his advanced stats not tied to USG% stayed relatively the same. His counting stats will bounce back with more opportunity on a less loaded team... even if that team is BOS after Tatum's injury and they trade away a couple of players.

For context, Jrue's eDiff was 8.6, Tatum's was 6.9 and Brown's was -1.0.

There will be a market for Jrue and BOS will certainly not need to attach anything to move him.

[puja21]

The players you mentioned are not like each other. (Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Beal etc... )

Your arbitrary comparison is not relevant.

Only relevance being drawn was the preponderance of NBA twitter/ pods / msg board fans calling for the selling team to take back lots of negative assets, stretch, buyout or wait out.

But you're literally making my point of "fans will revise and call it an anomaly"

RE: Wall being injured -- that's precisely *why* he was then-flagged as untradeable. It wasn't a "secret" that he was hurt. At the time of the trade, Wall had not set foot on an NBA court in 2 years. And he was traded with 3y 125M left on his deal. This was overwhelmingly considered the most immovable asset in the NBA and they got back Westbrook (as you said coming off 6 straight all NBA seasons) without having to add major assets -- And Russ even played great for Washington. This is exactly what fans said would not happen (getting off Wall without paying a huge premium). And it happened despite people stamping their feet.

CP3 was always tradeable and clearly PHX underestimated his importance to what they had.

This is my point about how people forget and try to revise history. I'm talking about in Houston when Paul, was on his 3rd straight year of sub 60 games played and almost 4 years removed from his last all star game but scheduled to make 80M over the next 2 seasons.
Was traded -- along with 2 swaps and 2 picks (1 left, 1 did not convey) -- for Westbrook. Again you said RW was on his 5th straight all NBA season at that time.

And for Russ I'm talking about Washington being able to flip him to LA at age 33 with 2y 90M without paying but also getting back assets (Dinwiddie + Kuz on a 13M salary)

The narrative that PHI traded Simmons for Harden has some serious Morey spin. Simmons was salary filler in that deal.

I sometimes wonder if you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing haha...
e.g.
Talk about spin. Harden forced a trade. Morey waited for the moment.

Are you disagreeing that Ben Simmons was considered a negative trade asset or disagreeing that Philly won the deal that sent Simmons out?

Look at it another way:
If Simmons was "just filler" What assets do you think Brooklyn "won" over a different trade of Harden?
They could've kept Harden. They could've traded him elsewhere.
Is your argument that they agreed to pay Simmons 100M over 3 years to get.... Seth Curry? Andre Drummond? Or is it the VERY late (#28) FRP pick Or the deferred asset (2027 heavily protected 1st) -- which eventually turns into cash.
Brooklyn was 100% counting on Simmons restoring his health and becoming a very good rotation player (if not hopeful an all star again).
Salary filler is exactly the "revisionist history" that we will see with Jrue Holiday.

The point I think you're ignoring is that Philly got off a guy who did not play -- almost at all -- let alone at a max level. And he had 3y 100M+ left on his contract... And they got back a guy who is still All NBA caliber three seasons later.

I assure you that there will be a lot written here, NBA twitter, and in the podcast world saying Jrue Holiday has almost no trade value with his contract.

But when he is moved a positive asset will come back.

And then people will spin ("He was salary Filler!" "Wall was hurt!" etc...).

[Pickled Prunes]

The players you mentioned are not like each other. (Wall, CP3, Westbrook, Beal etc... )

Your arbitrary comparison is not relevant.

My arbitrary comparison? My entire point was that your comparisons were arbitrary.

CP3 was always tradeable and clearly PHX underestimated his importance to what they had.

This is my point about how people forget and try to revise history. I'm talking about in Houston when Paul, was on his 3rd straight year of sub 60 games played and almost 4 years removed from his last all star game but scheduled to make 80M over the next 2 seasons.

To clarify, my view is that all contracts are tradeable, so when you call this revisionist history... I'm not revising anything. At no point did I believe CP3 was untradeable. Sure, HOU gave up two 1sts and two swaps in the CP3/Westbrook trade... but how long did it take you to realize that HOU got fleeced? That was clearly a bad trade from the HOU perspective, and the beginning of the end.

The narrative that PHI traded Simmons for Harden has some serious Morey spin. Simmons was salary filler in that deal.

I sometimes wonder if you disagree just for the sake of disagreeing haha...
e.g.
Talk about spin. Harden forced a trade. Morey waited for the moment.

Are you disagreeing that Ben Simmons was considered a negative trade asset or disagreeing that Philly won the deal that sent Simmons out?

Look at it another way:
If Simmons was "just filler" What assets do you think Brooklyn "won" over a different trade of Harden?
They could've kept Harden. They could've traded him elsewhere.
Is your argument that they agreed to pay Simmons 100M over 3 years to get.... Seth Curry? Andre Drummond? Or is it the VERY late (#28) FRP pick Or the deferred asset (2027 heavily protected 1st) -- which eventually turns into cash.
Brooklyn was 100% counting on Simmons restoring his health and becoming a very good rotation player (if not hopeful an all star again).
Salary filler is exactly the "revisionist history" that we will see with Jrue Holiday.

The point I think you're ignoring is that Philly got off a guy who did not play -- almost at all -- let alone at a max level. And he had 3y 100M+ left on his contract... And they got back a guy who is still All NBA caliber three seasons later.

I don't think we necessarily disagree on this point, but I will dig a little deeper into an explanation just to clarify:
No, Simmons was not the key piece going to BRK in the Harden trade. I'm sure BRK was hopeful that Simmons would rehabilitate himself to the point that he was serviceable or at least a neutral trade asset, but hopeful is a far cry from expectant or even optimistic. I was calling Simmons out for being a fraud a couple years before Doc Rivers made those statements on the podium, and BRK had months to review film to confirm what everyone sees clearly today.

Yes, Seth Curry, Drummond and the picks were the key pieces for BRK in that trade. They got two starters for one disgruntled former star. Curry was shooting damned near 50/40/90 that year and they were certainly optimistic about him. Both teams needed Drummond so having him in the deal filled a need for BRK while creating a void at backup center for a division rival. Both of those players added much needed depth to a team built around Kyrie and KD.

The revisionist way of looking at this ignores the fact that KD and Kyrie both jumped ship soon after. I believe Simmons was still tradeable and that BRK would have moved on from him if the band had stayed together. Since winning was no longer their goal, sitting on the eventual cap space was the best course of action. At no point did I believe BRK expected anything out of Simmons. My view on that has not changed. PHI did not get Harden for Simmons, they got Harden for a whole bunch of stuff. Simmons was absolutely a negative asset; he was just the biggest name going back the other way.

I assure you that there will be a lot written here, NBA twitter, and in the podcast world saying Jrue Holiday has almost no trade value with his contract.

But when he is moved a positive asset will come back.

And then people will spin ("He was salary Filler!" "Wall was hurt!" etc...).

That's just the thing, if you read my comments on this thread you will find that we agree on this. Jrue is absolutely a positive trade asset to the right team, and it only takes one. See, we agree after all!

You should probably go back and reread my original comment from that perspective. My main point was that you were comparing these BOS players to a bunch of previously traded players with perceived negative contracts. (And all negative for different reasons.) I don't think the league sees these players as negative values, so fan perception is irrelevant. BOS won't have any trouble moving any of them other than (potentially) KP.

[DoItALL9]

K. Porzingis for DeJounte Murray work for both teams?