Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis. Who's gone?

[durden_tyler]

It's crazy how the tides turn. Porz was HUGE in their championship series, and we've come to this.

That's what happens when you are constantly and consistently hurt. He's lucky he's not playing in the NFL, where the guaranteed amounts are not a sure thing. Watch those teams cut players with abandon because of injuries.

[iggymcfrack]

Here's a delusional Celtics fan overvaluing Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday (who btw make $85.5M for the next THREE seasons):

Read on Twitter

I find it weird you think that's a lot. Do you think it's because of Jrue, and that Celtic's would need to add more because you think he is a dead contract?

As a Celtic fan, I think that is on the lower end of the value to expect in a Brown deal, let alone attaching Jrue. I'm more in the #2 and Vassell camp for Brown, and think that offer would blow this one out the water.

Jabari and Tari have not even shown the ability to make an AS game, so getting a legit finals MVP wing who's made All-NBA and averaged 25+ multiple times, would be a boon for the Rockets. Brown is still a 2 way player, in his prime, and one of the best wings in the NBA. There are not many players better than him in the league.

But really, a later lottery pick, energy bench wing, and underwhelming former #3 pick is not nearly enough for a player of Browns caliber. I suggested Reed, 10 and Brooks for White 28 and Hauser, and think that's more of a fair deal.

Value wise, Rockets kill this deal, as they are arguably getting the 2 best players, easily the best player for 2 dudes on their bench and a mid pick...You must really have no faith in Brown

Jaylen Brown can't shoot and he's not a great passer, he's been getting by mostly on his athleticism. He's exactly the kind of player who declines young. The Celtics have been better with him on the bench than on the floor over the course of his career and have a better record when he sits out than when he plays. He has a torn meniscus which may require surgery. He put up a BPM of 0.0 this season which is his worst since 2019 and the worst of any of the 9 rotation players on the Celtics. And he's making $236MM for his age 29-32 seasons.

You think a team is giving up the #2 pick for that? There's no way anyone's that dumb. Not Nico, not Ishbia, nobody. Jrue and Jaylen are both negative contracts at this point. If you can find teams dumb enough to give you assets for them by all means, take advantage, but just getting expirings and decent role players would be a huge win.

Talking about the Rockets getting the 2 best players in the deal is nuts. Tari Eason at age 23 just had a higher BPM than either Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday have ever managed in their entire careers and he's an elite defender. Meanwhile, both the Celtics' guys are falling off a cliff where each year is worse than the one before. If the salaries were equal and the Rockets could do Jabari and Tari for Jaylen and Jrue straight up, that would still be a terrible trade for Houston. Jaylen Brown's 3 years younger than Bradley Beal. I think there's a much better chance that his next 4 years are worse than Beal's 2023-2026 seasons than there is that he's better than Eason the next 4 years.

[iggymcfrack]

It's crazy how the tides turn. Porz was HUGE in their championship series, and we've come to this.

He wasn't that huge. He played a total of 60 minutes across 5 games because he was injured. Yeah, he played well when he was in the game, but he was a LONG ways from being essential. He played more minutes in the Mavs' first round loss to the Clippers in 2021 than he did in either of the last 2 playoff runs. His season with the Wizards is really the only healthy season he's had since his 2nd year with the Knicks in 2017.

[JujitsuFlip]

Celts can dump kp on the nets..maybe offer a second. From the nets point of view they can try to flip an expiring kp for an additional asset.

Yup, should be one of the easiest trades Brad has ever had to make.

Nets are going to have like $80 million in cap space this summer, KP's $30 million won't even make a dent.

Why are the Nets doing favors for a divisional foe that embarrassed the living **** out of them in recent trade memory?

For a 2nd rounder? Something you can just buy outright if you want. It’s not going to be easy to flip him either, else the Celtics wouldn’t theoretically be targeting the Nets in the first place.

I don’t see it happening. Let your opponent burn their cash.

At the end of the day, the NBA is a business. It's not elementary school where someone stole your chocolate milk and now you're sworn to hate them for the rest of your days.

For trades to be legal, both sides must trade something. The 2nd rounder probably ends up top 55 protected.

All the parties involved in that trade, no longer are even with either team. Danny Ainge is in the Jazz front office now and Billy King is off doing non NBA things now. Mikhail Prokhorov sold the Nets to Joe Tsai. Wyc Grousbeck sold his majority stake in the Celtics to an investment group led by Bill chisholm.

That was almost 12 years ago, it is water under the bridge at this point.

[Wingy]

Yup, should be one of the easiest trades Brad has ever had to make.

Nets are going to have like $80 million in cap space this summer, KP's $30 million won't even make a dent.

Why are the Nets doing favors for a divisional foe that embarrassed the living **** out of them in recent trade memory?

For a 2nd rounder? Something you can just buy outright if you want. It’s not going to be easy to flip him either, else the Celtics wouldn’t theoretically be targeting the Nets in the first place.

I don’t see it happening. Let your opponent burn their cash.

At the end of the day, the NBA is a business. It's not elementary school where someone stole your chocolate milk and now you're sworn to hate them for the rest of your days.

For trades to be legal, both sides must trade something. The 2nd rounder probably ends up top 55 protected.

All the parties involved in that trade, no longer are even with either team. Danny Ainge is in the Jazz front office now and Billy King is off doing non NBA things now. Mikhail Prokhorov sold the Nets to Joe Tsai. Wyc Grousbeck sold his majority stake in the Celtics to an investment group led by Bill chisholm.

That was almost 12 years ago, it is water under the bridge at this point.

Tell that to Nets fans.

Maybe it’ll happen, who knows, but I’d think the Nets can take on money from other franchises that can give them better sweeteners.

[JDR720]

Jrue and Porzongis both have negative value. Jrue because of age and contract. Kristaps because of health.

Realistically they could pay a team like Washington or Utah to take on their contracts for draft picks though.

[JujitsuFlip]

Why are the Nets doing favors for a divisional foe that embarrassed the living **** out of them in recent trade memory?

For a 2nd rounder? Something you can just buy outright if you want. It’s not going to be easy to flip him either, else the Celtics wouldn’t theoretically be targeting the Nets in the first place.

I don’t see it happening. Let your opponent burn their cash.

At the end of the day, the NBA is a business. It's not elementary school where someone stole your chocolate milk and now you're sworn to hate them for the rest of your days.

For trades to be legal, both sides must trade something. The 2nd rounder probably ends up top 55 protected.

All the parties involved in that trade, no longer are even with either team. Danny Ainge is in the Jazz front office now and Billy King is off doing non NBA things now. Mikhail Prokhorov sold the Nets to Joe Tsai. Wyc Grousbeck sold his majority stake in the Celtics to an investment group led by Bill chisholm.

That was almost 12 years ago, it is water under the bridge at this point.

Tell that to Nets fans.

Maybe it’ll happen, who knows, but I’d think the Nets can take on money from other franchises that can give them better sweeteners.

Celtics aren't trading with Nets fans though, they're trading with Sean Marks.

And if the Nets prefer to take on Jrue instead of KP, i am sure the Celtics will gladly move off the 35 year old with $104.4 million left on his final 3 years.

Moving KP just makes more sense for both sides. He's 30 and expiring. Nets have to reach the cap floor either way. KP can play limited minutes since the Nets have literally 4 first rounders in the 2025 draft that need playing time.

Then if a team at the deadline wants KP, Nets can flip his $30 million expiring for another asset.

[JujitsuFlip]

Jrue and Porzongis both have negative value. Jrue because of age and contract. Kristaps because of health.

Realistically they could pay a team like Washington or Utah to take on their contracts for draft picks though.

Jazz can't make $30+ million in cap space. Wizards technically can make the room but would have to cut a bunch of non guaranteed or partial guaranteed players.

Edit: actually Wizards not really possible either because Middleton for sure going to pick-up that player option. Plus they have two 1st round picks in the 2025 draft.

[Wingy]

Celtics aren't trading with Nets fans though, they're trading with Sean Marks.

And if the Nets prefer to take on Jrue instead of KP, i am sure the Celtics will gladly move off the 35 year old with $104.4 million left on his final 3 years.

Moving KP just makes more sense for both sides. He's 30 and expiring. Nets have to reach the cap floor either way. KP can play limited minutes since the Nets have literally 4 first rounders in the 2025 draft that need playing time.

Then if a team at the deadline wants KP, Nets can flip his $30 million expiring for another asset.

To meet the floor, why wouldn’t the Nets just sign players that are helpful to their team? A 2nd round pick from Boston isn’t particularly enticing. They have lots of future picks from other teams, so can afford to start building something positive to cash in on them once a star is available.

2025, and 2026 are pretty weak FA years. I’d sooner think they’ll go for a Naz Reid (Wolves need to re-up Randle too), Giddey, or Kuminga this offseason over trying to roll their space into 2026 for who…Jaren Jackson, 30 y/o Aaron Gordon, or pure prayers that Luka hates LA, or Fox doesn’t actually wanna be near home with Wemby?

There are much more positive things for the Nets to do than help the Celtics for a negligible return.

[Scalabrine]

Keep Jrue and hopefully Kornet steps up.

Kornets a FA. That Bill Russell game he had Game 5 earned him a raise. Lots of teams need a good rim-running, smart, defensive Center. Lakers will definitely be interested.

[Scalabrine]

Celtics aren't trading with Nets fans though, they're trading with Sean Marks.

And if the Nets prefer to take on Jrue instead of KP, i am sure the Celtics will gladly move off the 35 year old with $104.4 million left on his final 3 years.

Moving KP just makes more sense for both sides. He's 30 and expiring. Nets have to reach the cap floor either way. KP can play limited minutes since the Nets have literally 4 first rounders in the 2025 draft that need playing time.

Then if a team at the deadline wants KP, Nets can flip his $30 million expiring for another asset.

To meet the floor, why wouldn’t the Nets just sign players that are helpful to their team? A 2nd round pick from Boston isn’t particularly enticing. They have lots of future picks from other teams, so can afford to start building something positive to cash in on them once a star is available.

2025, and 2026 are pretty weak FA years. I’d sooner think they’ll go for a Naz Reid (Wolves need to re-up Randle too), Giddey, or Kuminga this offseason over trying to roll their space into 2026 for who…Jaren Jackson, 30 y/o Aaron Gordon, or pure prayers that Luka hates LA, or Fox doesn’t actually wanna be near home with Wemby?

There are much more positive things for the Nets to do than help the Celtics for a negligible return.

The Nets made that trade to get their picks back, which, to me, signifies they are going for a longer rebuild over a patch job. I think bringing in teams unwanted salary for picks and low salaried youth for their cap space is the direction they are heading.

[Ron Swanson]

I think that Simmons trade idea is actually him being pretty realistic. Definitely more so than a lot of Boston fans/posters I've seen treating Holiday like he's still even a neutral asset on that contract (he's not). Understandable if you wouldn't want to dilute Jaylen's trade value by attaching Jrue, but that Rockets package is about the best you could reasonably hope for in order to dump that much salary. I don't think they should or will trade Brown FYI.

[kaansunman]

Jrue and Porzongis both have negative value. Jrue because of age and contract. Kristaps because of health.

Realistically they could pay a team like Washington or Utah to take on their contracts for draft picks though.

They will push the Porzingis contract to have something at least before it expires at the end of the year. I love Jrue but his contract is proably one of the worst contracts around the league at the moment. It will be a miracle if they can send him somewhere else.

[shi-woo]

Here's a delusional Celtics fan overvaluing Jaylen Brown and Jrue Holiday (who btw make $85.5M for the next THREE seasons):

Read on Twitter

I find it weird you think that's a lot. Do you think it's because of Jrue, and that Celtic's would need to add more because you think he is a dead contract?

As a Celtic fan, I think that is on the lower end of the value to expect in a Brown deal, let alone attaching Jrue. I'm more in the #2 and Vassell camp for Brown, and think that offer would blow this one out the water.

Jabari and Tari have not even shown the ability to make an AS game, so getting a legit finals MVP wing who's made All-NBA and averaged 25+ multiple times, would be a boon for the Rockets. Brown is still a 2 way player, in his prime, and one of the best wings in the NBA. There are not many players better than him in the league.

But really, a later lottery pick, energy bench wing, and underwhelming former #3 pick is not nearly enough for a player of Browns caliber. I suggested Reed, 10 and Brooks for White 28 and Hauser, and think that's more of a fair deal.

Value wise, Rockets kill this deal, as they are arguably getting the 2 best players, easily the best player for 2 dudes on their bench and a mid pick...You must really have no faith in Brown

No, I don't have faith that Jaylen Brown can be the #1 option to a team with championship aspirations. I don't think he's worth the money he's paid or the headache that'll present itself when Houston is forced to make more drastic consolidation moves. Boston gave the both of them a sweetheart deal to stay on the team with the impression that they'll be competing together for the next four years. Nobody would have given Jaylen or Jrue those contracts on the open market. If there's a big swing move to be made by Houston, Jaylen Brown would be near the bottom of the list of desired targets for me. You can save Jaylen Brown's resume for someone with less options than Houston. Running it back would be a better option than going all-in for Jaylen Brown.

Jabari is also more valuable to the Rockets than Bill Simmons (or anyone that doesn't watch the Rockets) thinks. Our defense and rebounding fell off a cliff without him this season. We're not getting a player back to supplement his role. He has All-Defensive potential. He only lost his starting spot because Amen Thompson is so good that Ime wants to play him as much as possible.

Man some of these Brown takes are wild. So as a Rocket fan you consider Smith Tari and #10 going all in? While still keeping Green, Sengun, Amen, Cam and Reed?

Holy smokes, that's wild. All in would be Sengun, Amen, Jabari and #10. This trade package is not it, and while the idea of having 2 Alex Carusos is nice, those players literally don't matter unless you have All-NBA offensive players to carry the team. So many players have All-DEF potential, not many have that and can score you 25 a game.

I get not liking Brown, but I assume the whole purpose of this trade proposal for HOU would be that it's not forcing you to go all in. You still would have Green/Shep/Whitmore/Amen/Brooks/Shengun and all your picks to fill out the roster and potentially trade for another game changer. Brown might not even be the #1 or best player on this team when it's all said and done in this scenario

For the Celtics's it's the contracts that are the most attractive part of this deal, not the players or their talent.

I expect the Rockets to make a deal this summer, hopefully involving Green, because if not I think you are going to be shocked at what "all-in" in going to look like for this team, assuming they are hunting for another All-NBA player.

I love Jabari, but i'm not holding onto him for a player of JB's character. Tari and #10 are getting very over rated in this scenario.

[JujitsuFlip]

Celtics aren't trading with Nets fans though, they're trading with Sean Marks.

And if the Nets prefer to take on Jrue instead of KP, i am sure the Celtics will gladly move off the 35 year old with $104.4 million left on his final 3 years.

Moving KP just makes more sense for both sides. He's 30 and expiring. Nets have to reach the cap floor either way. KP can play limited minutes since the Nets have literally 4 first rounders in the 2025 draft that need playing time.

Then if a team at the deadline wants KP, Nets can flip his $30 million expiring for another asset.

To meet the floor, why wouldn’t the Nets just sign players that are helpful to their team? A 2nd round pick from Boston isn’t particularly enticing. They have lots of future picks from other teams, so can afford to start building something positive to cash in on them once a star is available.

2025, and 2026 are pretty weak FA years. I’d sooner think they’ll go for a Naz Reid (Wolves need to re-up Randle too), Giddey, or Kuminga this offseason over trying to roll their space into 2026 for who…Jaren Jackson, 30 y/o Aaron Gordon, or pure prayers that Luka hates LA, or Fox doesn’t actually wanna be near home with Wemby?

There are much more positive things for the Nets to do than help the Celtics for a negligible return.

I doubt the Nets are going to find $70 million in free agency players or whatever # they need to hit the salary floor.

The Nets two largest contracts next season are Claxton's $25 million and Cam Johnson's $20 million. Their 3rd highest salary will be pick #8 projected at $5.7 million The other 7 guys plus the other three first rounders will make $3 million or less.

Just rough math, that is 13 guys making ~$80 million. The cap for next season is a projected $154 million.

They could over pay to bring Cam Thomas back or give Ty Jerome whatever deal he wanted and still wouldn't be close to being capped out.

How is giving Brook Lopez or Al Horford a massive 1 year offer any different or better than taking on 30 year old KP for 1 season at $30 million? There are not a lot of players out there that are willingly going to sign with the Nets.

[Chuck Everett]

How is giving Brook Lopez or Al Horford a massive 1 year offer any different or better than taking on 30 year old KP for 1 season at $30 million? There are not a lot of players out there that are willingly going to sign with the Nets.

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

[Black Jack]

If I were Celtics GM I would basically use Tatum's injury as an excuse for full reset and get rid of everyone except Tatum and JB. You just need serviceable players around those two to win. Jrue and Porzingis are the type of guys a dynasty features then gets rid of. They can get a lot for White.

Strip it down, let JB have a huge scoring year where he goes for 33 ppg or something, and bring in refreshed troops that get reps for Tatum's extended recovery.

[JujitsuFlip]

How is giving Brook Lopez or Al Horford a massive 1 year offer any different or better than taking on 30 year old KP for 1 season at $30 million? There are not a lot of players out there that are willingly going to sign with the Nets.

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

[Chuck Everett]

How is giving Brook Lopez or Al Horford a massive 1 year offer any different or better than taking on 30 year old KP for 1 season at $30 million? There are not a lot of players out there that are willingly going to sign with the Nets.

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

Maybe. For all we know, some of the draft picks could be sold to teams without picks or be used on draft-n-stash foreign players. NBA players are pretty transparent. When the money's equal, they go with the better team. However, Brooklyn has to spend its cap space somehow. If say Houston was offering 7mm and Brooklyn is offering 15mm, where do you think that player is going? That's all I'm saying.

[JujitsuFlip]

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

Maybe. For all we know, some of the draft picks could be sold to teams without picks or be used on draft-n-stash foreign players. NBA players are pretty transparent. When the money's equal, they go with the better team. However, Brooklyn has to spend its cap space somehow. If say Houston was offering 7mm and Brooklyn is offering 15mm, where do you think that player is going? That's all I'm saying.

Sure but are $70 million worth of players going to do that?

That point is, the Nets can absorb KP's $30 million with no issue.