Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis. Who's gone?

[Mi Scusi]

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

Maybe. For all we know, some of the draft picks could be sold to teams without picks or be used on draft-n-stash foreign players. NBA players are pretty transparent. When the money's equal, they go with the better team. However, Brooklyn has to spend its cap space somehow. If say Houston was offering 7mm and Brooklyn is offering 15mm, where do you think that player is going? That's all I'm saying.

Sure but are $70 million worth of players going to do that?

That point is, the Nets can absorb KP's $30 million with no issue.

Also why should the nets over pay multiple players. You’re not close to a contending team, and there’s not going to be a lot of guys in FA that are young, that you can sign to multiple years that will actually help. Better to take on the expiring and get an extra pick or two. Then waste the money on 1 year deals, or bad multi year deals just to hit the cap floor.

[Gant]

Jrue and Porzongis both have negative value. Jrue because of age and contract. Kristaps because of health.

Realistically they could pay a team like Washington or Utah to take on their contracts for draft picks though.

Keith Smith's take on this is probably about right.

Keith, what teams could you realistically see be interested in KP or Jrue this offseason?.

Keith Smith:

I'm going to keep this sort of general:

For Porzingis: Because he's on an expiring deal, that has value in and of itself. Expiring deals are valuable again for teams looking to clear long-term money. He's also productive when he plays. If you need a C and can cover for his absences, he's a good fit.

For Holiday: Basically any team that needs a guard who can flex his usage up and down as necessary, while being a plus defender 1-4 (and even small 5s). The contract and age are concerns, but if you are trying to win now, Holiday could be a fit.

Boston won't get an incredible return on either, because of contract, age or injury concerns, but they won't have to give up assets to move them either.

[hugepatsfan]

When Stevens took over he had Tristain Thompson's multi year MLE deal and Kemba's bloated max deal to clear off the books. With Kemba, he minimized the cost it took to move off the deal by taking back Horford who was considered bad money at the time. With Thompson, he didn't just pay a premium for someone to take him. He made a series of trades to where he shaved a bit of the money each time to where by the end of it he had a couple of expiring deals to dump (Juan Hernangomez, Bruno Fernando).

I'd expect a similar approach this year. Just dealing Porzingis at $30M into BRK's cap space would cost insane amount of assets because they're the only team that can do that. That's dumb to do.

But... I bet CHA would trade Nurkic and a partially guaranteed Josh Okogie for Porzingis. It's just an upside play that their payroll isn't really hurt by as far as tax/aprons/etc. And then I bet it only costs a future 2nd for BOS to dump the $3M guarantee on Okogie's deal that's needed to execute the CHA trade. And Nurkic at about $20M is dead weight... but look at a team like MEM. Brandon Clarke is a small part of their rotation with the emergences of Aldima and Edey. They have good cap situation now but it will be tougher in the future when they extend JJJ. It wouldn't surprise me if they would trade Clarke's $12.5M salary now for Nurkic's $20M expiring because they can afford the extra $7.5M now but Clarke has multiple years on his deal into seasons where payroll isn't as clean for them. So now at the cost of probably just some 2nds, BOS turned Porzingis' $31M salary down into Clarke's $12.5M. That does most of the heavy lifting for them to avoid the 2nd apron.

You try to do something similar with Jrue. You make a series of deals that modestly lower payroll because that's how you find deals that aren't as costly. But when you stack them all together you've cleared a huge chunk.

[Curmudgeon]

Why not keep it simple? Jaylen Brown to Brooklyn for #8 in the draft. Gets the Celtics out of the tax in one swell foop.

[FarBeyondDriven]

How is giving Brook Lopez or Al Horford a massive 1 year offer any different or better than taking on 30 year old KP for 1 season at $30 million? There are not a lot of players out there that are willingly going to sign with the Nets.

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

The Nets are set at the 3 (Johnson), 4 (Clowney) and 5 (Claxton). They need a dynamic guard(s) which is where trading for a guard makes sense and that's where Jrue would come into play. I'm sure the Celtics, if they decide to reset, would be happy to take back a late 2025 1st for Jrue to get him off the books. Then the Nets can use their first pick on a PG to groom under him like Demin at #8. At #18 they can take backups at the 5 (Raynaud). At #26 they can take a backup at the 3 (Thiero) In this scenario none of the rookies are getting major minutes but just enough to develop and be part of their core going forward. Between matching Thomas, Williams and taking on Jrue they'll reach the cap.

Holiday-Demin
Thomas-Whitehead
Johnson-Williams-Thiero
Clowney-Wilson
Claxton-Raynaud

imho that is a roster of try-hards and would be fun to watch. It's very possible for them to make the play-in or better. Like the Pacers they can throw bodies at you with their incredible depth and it's a well-constructed team with complimentary pieces.

[JujitsuFlip]

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

The Nets are set at the 3 (Johnson), 4 (Clowney) and 5 (Claxton). They need a dynamic guard(s) which is where trading for a guard makes sense and that's where Jrue would come into play. I'm sure the Celtics, if they decide to reset, would be happy to take back a late 2025 1st for Jrue to get him off the books. Then the Nets can use their first pick on a PG to groom under him like Demin at #8. At #18 they can take backups at the 5 (Raynaud). At #26 they can take a backup at the 3 (Thiero) In this scenario none of the rookies are getting major minutes but just enough to develop and be part of their core going forward. Between matching Thomas, Williams and taking on Jrue they'll reach the cap.

Holiday-Demin
Thomas-Whitehead
Johnson-Williams-Thiero
Clowney-Wilson
Claxton-Raynaud

imho that is a roster of try-hards and would be fun to watch. It's very possible for them to make the play-in or better. Like the Pacers they can throw bodies at you with their incredible depth and it's a well-constructed team with complimentary pieces.

The Celtics are not getting a 1st for Jrue...

[JujitsuFlip]

When Stevens took over he had Tristain Thompson's multi year MLE deal and Kemba's bloated max deal to clear off the books. With Kemba, he minimized the cost it took to move off the deal by taking back Horford who was considered bad money at the time. With Thompson, he didn't just pay a premium for someone to take him. He made a series of trades to where he shaved a bit of the money each time to where by the end of it he had a couple of expiring deals to dump (Juan Hernangomez, Bruno Fernando).

I'd expect a similar approach this year. Just dealing Porzingis at $30M into BRK's cap space would cost insane amount of assets because they're the only team that can do that. That's dumb to do.

But... I bet CHA would trade Nurkic and a partially guaranteed Josh Okogie for Porzingis. It's just an upside play that their payroll isn't really hurt by as far as tax/aprons/etc. And then I bet it only costs a future 2nd for BOS to dump the $3M guarantee on Okogie's deal that's needed to execute the CHA trade. And Nurkic at about $20M is dead weight... but look at a team like MEM. Brandon Clarke is a small part of their rotation with the emergences of Aldima and Edey. They have good cap situation now but it will be tougher in the future when they extend JJJ. It wouldn't surprise me if they would trade Clarke's $12.5M salary now for Nurkic's $20M expiring because they can afford the extra $7.5M now but Clarke has multiple years on his deal into seasons where payroll isn't as clean for them. So now at the cost of probably just some 2nds, BOS turned Porzingis' $31M salary down into Clarke's $12.5M. That does most of the heavy lifting for them to avoid the 2nd apron.

You try to do something similar with Jrue. You make a series of deals that modestly lower payroll because that's how you find deals that aren't as costly. But when you stack them all together you've cleared a huge chunk.

The current CBA did away with that.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/05/hoops-rumors-glossary-trade-rules-for-non-guaranteed-salaries.html

Spotrac says Okogie is 0% guaranteed for the 2025-26 season. So his contract would be fully guaranteed if he was included in a trade, to be counted as outgoing salary.

[hugepatsfan]

When Stevens took over he had Tristain Thompson's multi year MLE deal and Kemba's bloated max deal to clear off the books. With Kemba, he minimized the cost it took to move off the deal by taking back Horford who was considered bad money at the time. With Thompson, he didn't just pay a premium for someone to take him. He made a series of trades to where he shaved a bit of the money each time to where by the end of it he had a couple of expiring deals to dump (Juan Hernangomez, Bruno Fernando).

I'd expect a similar approach this year. Just dealing Porzingis at $30M into BRK's cap space would cost insane amount of assets because they're the only team that can do that. That's dumb to do.

But... I bet CHA would trade Nurkic and a partially guaranteed Josh Okogie for Porzingis. It's just an upside play that their payroll isn't really hurt by as far as tax/aprons/etc. And then I bet it only costs a future 2nd for BOS to dump the $3M guarantee on Okogie's deal that's needed to execute the CHA trade. And Nurkic at about $20M is dead weight... but look at a team like MEM. Brandon Clarke is a small part of their rotation with the emergences of Aldima and Edey. They have good cap situation now but it will be tougher in the future when they extend JJJ. It wouldn't surprise me if they would trade Clarke's $12.5M salary now for Nurkic's $20M expiring because they can afford the extra $7.5M now but Clarke has multiple years on his deal into seasons where payroll isn't as clean for them. So now at the cost of probably just some 2nds, BOS turned Porzingis' $31M salary down into Clarke's $12.5M. That does most of the heavy lifting for them to avoid the 2nd apron.

You try to do something similar with Jrue. You make a series of deals that modestly lower payroll because that's how you find deals that aren't as costly. But when you stack them all together you've cleared a huge chunk.

The current CBA did away with that.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/05/hoops-rumors-glossary-trade-rules-for-non-guaranteed-salaries.html

Spotrac says Okogie is 0% guaranteed for the 2025-26 season. So his contract would be fully guaranteed if he was included in a trade, to be counted as outgoing salary.

Good catch. Even so, I think point still stands because Okogie on a $7.5M deal is still dump-able for 2nds.

BOS isn't going to pay a team an arm and a leg for some team to take on the full deals of Porzingis and/or Jrue. That's just not practical with how NBA trades work and how cap space is valued in trades. But both of those guys are movable for smaller savings that you can stack on top of each other with a series of deals. They can be broken down into a collection of smaller deals that cost cumulatively less to dump individually.

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics are absolutely getting something useful for Jrue. There are half a dozen teams in "win now" mode that would love to have him. And why would the Nets want Jrue? They are rebuilding, not contending.

[Triple M]

Jrue for DJJ and Bogs works. Clippers probably the only team that can stomach Jrue's contract

[CoP]

gotta love the celtics fans who think they will just be able to give away Jrue for a 10 year younger player without also including 3-4 FRPs to go with him

[Kawaii Leonard]

Both.

[ShootersShoot]

gotta love the celtics fans who think they will just be able to give away Jrue for a 10 year younger player without also including 3-4 FRPs to go with him

[ArksNetsSince99]

The question is what can they get for them?

Not sure , but you have what they want

[ArksNetsSince99]

An Anfernee Simons for Jrue Holiday trade would shave 5 million off of Boston's books (plus Simons is expiring). Holiday could be a good vet mentor for the young Blazers backcourt/team and still help them win games, even as an expensive backup/spot-starter.

Regarding Porzingis... I honestly don't know. But he is an expiring. Maybe Ainge will do them a solid for John Collins, if they add a pick (which would save Boston another 4 million).

Hard pass for POR.

Wasn’t so hard and not even a pass

[ArksNetsSince99]

gotta love the celtics fans who think they will just be able to give away Jrue for a 10 year younger player without also including 3-4 FRPs to go with him

Errm. Are you referring to the idea about Anfernee Simons that was posted by not a Celtics fan?

This is too funny

[Tetlak]

I take issue with this quote a bit. If the Nets are patient and the good teams can only offer MLE, TMLE and below, they may be able to get more guys willing to sign with them than we think. After all, they still are in NYC and their books are pretty clean at the moment. For all we know, they re-sign Dennis Schroder.

Bruv, they quite literally are going to be handing big mintues to 4, count them, 4 2025 first round picks. Even overpaying, there are not a ton of vets signing up for that.

Their 2nd highest salary in Cam Johnson is most likely on the move to a contender, eventually.

The Nets are set at the 3 (Johnson), 4 (Clowney) and 5 (Claxton). They need a dynamic guard(s) which is where trading for a guard makes sense and that's where Jrue would come into play. I'm sure the Celtics, if they decide to reset, would be happy to take back a late 2025 1st for Jrue to get him off the books. Then the Nets can use their first pick on a PG to groom under him like Demin at #8. At #18 they can take backups at the 5 (Raynaud). At #26 they can take a backup at the 3 (Thiero) In this scenario none of the rookies are getting major minutes but just enough to develop and be part of their core going forward. Between matching Thomas, Williams and taking on Jrue they'll reach the cap.

Holiday-Demin
Thomas-Whitehead
Johnson-Williams-Thiero
Clowney-Wilson
Claxton-Raynaud

imho that is a roster of try-hards and would be fun to watch. It's very possible for them to make the play-in or better. Like the Pacers they can throw bodies at you with their incredible depth and it's a well-constructed team with complimentary pieces.

The Nets are not set at a single position.

[syrus3]

The glazing I’ve seen for Presti should be reserved for Brad Stevens.

[jfs1000d]

An Anfernee Simons for Jrue Holiday trade would shave 5 million off of Boston's books (plus Simons is expiring). Holiday could be a good vet mentor for the young Blazers backcourt/team and still help them win games, even as an expensive backup/spot-starter.

Regarding Porzingis... I honestly don't know. But he is an expiring. Maybe Ainge will do them a solid for John Collins, if they add a pick (which would save Boston another 4 million).

Hard pass for POR.

Ouch .


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[jfs1000d]

gotta love the celtics fans who think they will just be able to give away Jrue for a 10 year younger player without also including 3-4 FRPs to go with him

Old Takes Exposed.


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