Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX
junot111 wrote:Thaddy wrote:Comparing Achiuwa to Mogbo shows a lack of game analysis. Achiuwa would never get a triple double against a NBA team. Mogbo's feel, fluidity, and handle are much better.
You're right I should've just went to reddit instead of writing my own analysis
junot111 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:junot111 wrote:Because he's a 23 year old 31st pick who still looks raw in terms of finishing and scoring. What are the chances he ends up better than a borderline starter? Again, are we still claiming Giannis is scotties ceiling or can we be more realistic with the projection?
Ceiling and likely projection are 2 different things.
I can think Mogbo's ceiling is incredibly high which I do but also be realistic that he's not likely to reach it.
Scottie never had a Giannis type ceiling, they aren't even close to the same level athlete. That's been apparent since day 1.
So what do you think is Mogbo's ceiling?
PushDaRock wrote:junot111 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
Ceiling and likely projection are 2 different things.
I can think Mogbo's ceiling is incredibly high which I do but also be realistic that he's not likely to reach it.
Scottie never had a Giannis type ceiling, they aren't even close to the same level athlete. That's been apparent since day 1.
So what do you think is Mogbo's ceiling?
If everything breaks right, you're probably looking at someone that can be an All-Star level player. Numbers, you're looking at something like 17/10/6 with All-NBA D as an absolute ceiling.
He has All-NBA level defender upside because he has a rare blend of size and quickness to guard 1 through 5. He already gets deflections at a very high rate, next step is gaining experience, learning tendencies and increasing his game processing speed on that end.
Offensively, he's not likely going to be a 20 point scorer but there's a path where he can get to around 15-17 ppg on starter minutes. He's already a good lob threat, gets his fair share of easy dunks on drop offs and can hit FT's at a decent percentage. His corner 3 ball is on very low volume so can't read too much into it but it's at 36%. If he can replicate that at higher volume, it helps. The development in his scoring touch around the rim and in the paint area will determine a lot. The rebounding and assists are at 8.6 rebounds per 36 and 3.8 assists per 36, which are pretty good right now but can get better.
There were murmurs prior to the second day of the draft, that the Raptors were interested in two bigs: Ulrich Chomche & Jonathan Mogbo. As it turned out, with a quick purchase of a back end draft pick, they were able to nab both. Mogbo being the much older prospect, and the much more NBA ready prospect, was the big man who got the chance to stamp himself at the highest level of basketball this season. And his season was a mix of incredible highs and very sobering lows.
Starting off a high note. Mogbo immediately became one of the best switch bigs in the NBA. He was 8 times as likely to switch in the pick n’ roll, as opposed to any other form of coverage. There are three players that defended over 150 possessions against pick n’ roll ball handlers and kept the points per possession under .700, which is a paltry number. Those 3 players? Alex Caruso, Jonathan Mogbo, and Kris Dunn. Excellent company to keep. Mogbo’s ability to step out with a wide array of players and turn their water off is a truly elite NBA skill. That’s a huge deal, and not to be taken for granted.
In addition to Mogbo’s objective utility in the pick n’ roll, he also provides fairly good pop as a roamer who can playmake on the defensive end of the floor. That playmaking hasn’t yet translated to rim defense — where he wasn’t able to provide a lot of pop, and the smaller stature for a big man might always limit this — but he displayed a lot of competence in passing lanes and as a dig man on drives. The combination of all of these things made him a well above-average defender as a rookie. There were limitations on the glass, where he objectively struggled to hold down a frontcourt spot, and the reason why, to some degree, is because Mogbo has trouble fitting next to a big man on defense, because of his limitations on offense. So, let’s discuss that.
Mogbo needs a tremendous amount of development on offense in regards to playing the role of a big man. He needs far more when it comes to player the role of a jumbo wing that the Raptors idealize him in.
Starting off with what improved: Mogbo took a measurable leap as a jump shooter, to 24-percent from downtown and 73-percent from the free throw line. That might sound funny, but it’s true. Mogbo went 0-2 in his last college season from downtown, and improved from 69-percent at the line, and did so in front of NBA crowds. Meaningful, but obviously not close to what is needed. However, that’s about the only improvement that manifested at the NBA level this year. Other things could be on the way, but we’ve not seen anything yet. Oh yeah, he has a decent left to right cross on bigs as well.
Basically everything else was a major struggle on offense. The foundation of his big man offense at college was significantly less potent. Whether it was the fact that he’s a pretty small screener at the NBA level, or the fact that teams played off of him and made him try to create in the space provided, or the fact that his finishing hasn’t translated to the NBA level yet.
There aren’t really numbers to convey the first two points, but the ebb and flow of the offense definitely suffered if we appeal to the eye test, and the Raptors offense was much worse with him on the floor on average. It was a struggle. The finishing in particular though, was a disaster:
Hook shots: 38-percent
Runners/Floaters: 32-percent
Layups: 39-percent
For an NBA big, that really is not going to cut it. If those numbers don’t improve immediately in year 2, his presence will continue to crater the offense completely. It’s good that Mogbo registered 66 dunks (he missed 10 on the season) to help his impact as a play finisher, but shooting sub-55 percent as a big man is very difficult to stomach.
WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2025/05/20/jonathan-mogbo-almost-did-it-all/There were murmurs prior to the second day of the draft, that the Raptors were interested in two bigs: Ulrich Chomche & Jonathan Mogbo. As it turned out, with a quick purchase of a back end draft pick, they were able to nab both. Mogbo being the much older prospect, and the much more NBA ready prospect, was the big man who got the chance to stamp himself at the highest level of basketball this season. And his season was a mix of incredible highs and very sobering lows.
Starting off a high note. Mogbo immediately became one of the best switch bigs in the NBA. He was 8 times as likely to switch in the pick n’ roll, as opposed to any other form of coverage. There are three players that defended over 150 possessions against pick n’ roll ball handlers and kept the points per possession under .700, which is a paltry number. Those 3 players? Alex Caruso, Jonathan Mogbo, and Kris Dunn. Excellent company to keep. Mogbo’s ability to step out with a wide array of players and turn their water off is a truly elite NBA skill. That’s a huge deal, and not to be taken for granted.
In addition to Mogbo’s objective utility in the pick n’ roll, he also provides fairly good pop as a roamer who can playmake on the defensive end of the floor. That playmaking hasn’t yet translated to rim defense — where he wasn’t able to provide a lot of pop, and the smaller stature for a big man might always limit this — but he displayed a lot of competence in passing lanes and as a dig man on drives. The combination of all of these things made him a well above-average defender as a rookie. There were limitations on the glass, where he objectively struggled to hold down a frontcourt spot, and the reason why, to some degree, is because Mogbo has trouble fitting next to a big man on defense, because of his limitations on offense. So, let’s discuss that.
Mogbo needs a tremendous amount of development on offense in regards to playing the role of a big man. He needs far more when it comes to player the role of a jumbo wing that the Raptors idealize him in.
Starting off with what improved: Mogbo took a measurable leap as a jump shooter, to 24-percent from downtown and 73-percent from the free throw line. That might sound funny, but it’s true. Mogbo went 0-2 in his last college season from downtown, and improved from 69-percent at the line, and did so in front of NBA crowds. Meaningful, but obviously not close to what is needed. However, that’s about the only improvement that manifested at the NBA level this year. Other things could be on the way, but we’ve not seen anything yet. Oh yeah, he has a decent left to right cross on bigs as well.
Basically everything else was a major struggle on offense. The foundation of his big man offense at college was significantly less potent. Whether it was the fact that he’s a pretty small screener at the NBA level, or the fact that teams played off of him and made him try to create in the space provided, or the fact that his finishing hasn’t translated to the NBA level yet.
There aren’t really numbers to convey the first two points, but the ebb and flow of the offense definitely suffered if we appeal to the eye test, and the Raptors offense was much worse with him on the floor on average. It was a struggle. The finishing in particular though, was a disaster:
Hook shots: 38-percent
Runners/Floaters: 32-percent
Layups: 39-percent
For an NBA big, that really is not going to cut it. If those numbers don’t improve immediately in year 2, his presence will continue to crater the offense completely. It’s good that Mogbo registered 66 dunks (he missed 10 on the season) to help his impact as a play finisher, but shooting sub-55 percent as a big man is very difficult to stomach.
Duffman100 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:junot111 wrote:So what do you think is Mogbo's ceiling?
If everything breaks right, you're probably looking at someone that can be an All-Star level player. Numbers, you're looking at something like 17/10/6 with All-NBA D as an absolute ceiling.
He has All-NBA level defender upside because he has a rare blend of size and quickness to guard 1 through 5. He already gets deflections at a very high rate, next step is gaining experience, learning tendencies and increasing his game processing speed on that end.
Offensively, he's not likely going to be a 20 point scorer but there's a path where he can get to around 15-17 ppg on starter minutes. He's already a good lob threat, gets his fair share of easy dunks on drop offs and can hit FT's at a decent percentage. His corner 3 ball is on very low volume so can't read too much into it but it's at 36%. If he can replicate that at higher volume, it helps. The development in his scoring touch around the rim and in the paint area will determine a lot. The rebounding and assists are at 8.6 rebounds per 36 and 3.8 assists per 36, which are pretty good right now but can get better.
For him it's all about that 3 ball and that touch around the rim. He's already such a positive defender and passer.
I always say this, find whereever the hell Zach Randolph is and get him in a gym with Mogbo. Teach him the key to whatever magical touch that guy had around the rim.
oldncreaky wrote:Duffman100 wrote:PushDaRock wrote:
If everything breaks right, you're probably looking at someone that can be an All-Star level player. Numbers, you're looking at something like 17/10/6 with All-NBA D as an absolute ceiling.
He has All-NBA level defender upside because he has a rare blend of size and quickness to guard 1 through 5. He already gets deflections at a very high rate, next step is gaining experience, learning tendencies and increasing his game processing speed on that end.
Offensively, he's not likely going to be a 20 point scorer but there's a path where he can get to around 15-17 ppg on starter minutes. He's already a good lob threat, gets his fair share of easy dunks on drop offs and can hit FT's at a decent percentage. His corner 3 ball is on very low volume so can't read too much into it but it's at 36%. If he can replicate that at higher volume, it helps. The development in his scoring touch around the rim and in the paint area will determine a lot. The rebounding and assists are at 8.6 rebounds per 36 and 3.8 assists per 36, which are pretty good right now but can get better.
For him it's all about that 3 ball and that touch around the rim. He's already such a positive defender and passer.
I always say this, find whereever the hell Zach Randolph is and get him in a gym with Mogbo. Teach him the key to whatever magical touch that guy had around the rim.
Zach Randolph had talent. He showed that now-famous shooting touch as a 19 year-old freshman at Michigan State
Mogbo might learn enough to become playable of O, and therefore a rotation piece, but I don't think he can be taught what Zach Randolph showed as a teenager.
Dalek wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2025/05/20/jonathan-mogbo-almost-did-it-all/There were murmurs prior to the second day of the draft, that the Raptors were interested in two bigs: Ulrich Chomche & Jonathan Mogbo. As it turned out, with a quick purchase of a back end draft pick, they were able to nab both. Mogbo being the much older prospect, and the much more NBA ready prospect, was the big man who got the chance to stamp himself at the highest level of basketball this season. And his season was a mix of incredible highs and very sobering lows.
Starting off a high note. Mogbo immediately became one of the best switch bigs in the NBA. He was 8 times as likely to switch in the pick n’ roll, as opposed to any other form of coverage. There are three players that defended over 150 possessions against pick n’ roll ball handlers and kept the points per possession under .700, which is a paltry number. Those 3 players? Alex Caruso, Jonathan Mogbo, and Kris Dunn. Excellent company to keep. Mogbo’s ability to step out with a wide array of players and turn their water off is a truly elite NBA skill. That’s a huge deal, and not to be taken for granted.
In addition to Mogbo’s objective utility in the pick n’ roll, he also provides fairly good pop as a roamer who can playmake on the defensive end of the floor. That playmaking hasn’t yet translated to rim defense — where he wasn’t able to provide a lot of pop, and the smaller stature for a big man might always limit this — but he displayed a lot of competence in passing lanes and as a dig man on drives. The combination of all of these things made him a well above-average defender as a rookie. There were limitations on the glass, where he objectively struggled to hold down a frontcourt spot, and the reason why, to some degree, is because Mogbo has trouble fitting next to a big man on defense, because of his limitations on offense. So, let’s discuss that.
Mogbo needs a tremendous amount of development on offense in regards to playing the role of a big man. He needs far more when it comes to player the role of a jumbo wing that the Raptors idealize him in.
Starting off with what improved: Mogbo took a measurable leap as a jump shooter, to 24-percent from downtown and 73-percent from the free throw line. That might sound funny, but it’s true. Mogbo went 0-2 in his last college season from downtown, and improved from 69-percent at the line, and did so in front of NBA crowds. Meaningful, but obviously not close to what is needed. However, that’s about the only improvement that manifested at the NBA level this year. Other things could be on the way, but we’ve not seen anything yet. Oh yeah, he has a decent left to right cross on bigs as well.
Basically everything else was a major struggle on offense. The foundation of his big man offense at college was significantly less potent. Whether it was the fact that he’s a pretty small screener at the NBA level, or the fact that teams played off of him and made him try to create in the space provided, or the fact that his finishing hasn’t translated to the NBA level yet.
There aren’t really numbers to convey the first two points, but the ebb and flow of the offense definitely suffered if we appeal to the eye test, and the Raptors offense was much worse with him on the floor on average. It was a struggle. The finishing in particular though, was a disaster:
Hook shots: 38-percent
Runners/Floaters: 32-percent
Layups: 39-percent
For an NBA big, that really is not going to cut it. If those numbers don’t improve immediately in year 2, his presence will continue to crater the offense completely. It’s good that Mogbo registered 66 dunks (he missed 10 on the season) to help his impact as a play finisher, but shooting sub-55 percent as a big man is very difficult to stomach.
I am harsh in thinking Mogbo is a wasted pick and maybe I end up wrong about him, but he ended up how I projected. He is an excellent defender in space, but too small/light in the post to be a rim deterrer, and his offense game is that of a center and in the NBA it just doesn't fly so his floaters and layups stink against NBA length. It is reminding me of Josh Okogie being an impact defender but homeless on offense.
People seem to like his passing, so maybe something is there. Overall, Mogbo got drafted because they dreamed of him being a mini Draymond Green. I absolutely hate that draft archetype. Draymond was one of one mainly because he played with the greatest offensive player in our generation.
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
YogurtProducer wrote:Dalek wrote:WuTang_OG wrote:https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2025/05/20/jonathan-mogbo-almost-did-it-all/
I am harsh in thinking Mogbo is a wasted pick and maybe I end up wrong about him, but he ended up how I projected. He is an excellent defender in space, but too small/light in the post to be a rim deterrer, and his offense game is that of a center and in the NBA it just doesn't fly so his floaters and layups stink against NBA length. It is reminding me of Josh Okogie being an impact defender but homeless on offense.
People seem to like his passing, so maybe something is there. Overall, Mogbo got drafted because they dreamed of him being a mini Draymond Green. I absolutely hate that draft archetype. Draymond was one of one mainly because he played with the greatest offensive player in our generation.
You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
nikster wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:Dalek wrote:
I am harsh in thinking Mogbo is a wasted pick and maybe I end up wrong about him, but he ended up how I projected. He is an excellent defender in space, but too small/light in the post to be a rim deterrer, and his offense game is that of a center and in the NBA it just doesn't fly so his floaters and layups stink against NBA length. It is reminding me of Josh Okogie being an impact defender but homeless on offense.
People seem to like his passing, so maybe something is there. Overall, Mogbo got drafted because they dreamed of him being a mini Draymond Green. I absolutely hate that draft archetype. Draymond was one of one mainly because he played with the greatest offensive player in our generation.
You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
Draymond has got to be the most underrated player of the last 10 years
DreamTeam09 wrote:nikster wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
Draymond has got to be the most underrated player of the last 10 years
Some like myself would call him the most overrated player. His antics, his horrible stats without Steph, barely improved over the years n years, horrible teammate, not to mention all the off the court stuff -
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
nikster wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:Dalek wrote:
I am harsh in thinking Mogbo is a wasted pick and maybe I end up wrong about him, but he ended up how I projected. He is an excellent defender in space, but too small/light in the post to be a rim deterrer, and his offense game is that of a center and in the NBA it just doesn't fly so his floaters and layups stink against NBA length. It is reminding me of Josh Okogie being an impact defender but homeless on offense.
People seem to like his passing, so maybe something is there. Overall, Mogbo got drafted because they dreamed of him being a mini Draymond Green. I absolutely hate that draft archetype. Draymond was one of one mainly because he played with the greatest offensive player in our generation.
You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
Draymond has got to be the most underrated player of the last 10 years
Dalek wrote:I am harsh in thinking Mogbo is a wasted pick
Dalek wrote:He is an excellent defender in space, but too small/light in the post to be a rim deterrer, and his offense game is that of a center and in the NBA it just doesn't fly so his floaters and layups stink against NBA length.
Dalek wrote:People seem to like his passing, so maybe something is there. Overall, Mogbo got drafted because they dreamed of him being a mini Draymond Green. I absolutely hate that draft archetype. Draymond was one of one mainly because he played with the greatest offensive player in our generation.
brownbobcat wrote:nikster wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
Draymond has got to be the most underrated player of the last 10 years
Offensively, he's hard to judge because he's always played beside the greatest shooter and off-ball player of all time. His value as a "hub" doesn't exist if he doesn't get to play 4-on-3 as much as he does.
brownbobcat wrote:nikster wrote:YogurtProducer wrote:You are selling Draymond very, very, very short.
Draymond has got to be the most underrated player of the last 10 years
Offensively, he's hard to judge because he's always played beside the greatest shooter and off-ball player of all time. His value as a "hub" doesn't exist if he doesn't get to play 4-on-3 as much as he does.