2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[JCP11]

Not a fan of drafting CMB given our roster construction (and all the moaning from fans about a lack of spacing that would likely follow), but I’ll say this: if anyone in this draft has the potential to have a Kawhi-like outcome, it’s him. In college, kawhi was an elite defensive playmaker, rebounder, and a great on-ball driver for his size/role. Out of the grouping of forwards folks are talking about (Fleming, Bryant, Essengue), CMB is the only one that checks all those boxes. The stats back this up. Also, like Kawhi, His feel for the game is miles ahead of the others.

Bryant is a fine defender, Fleming is an overrated one, and Essengue is quite bad on defense. Bryant is also the only one that I trust will shoot it well enough to where defenses respect him. Nobody in this grouping has much on ball juice (Fleming is particularly bad here). I don’t buy the idea that any of these guys is a safe pick. IMO, we should be going for upside in the lottery.

For me it's simple, if he develops a shot he's a top 3 player in this draft, the rest of his game is already well advanced for a sophomore. Not a lot of people here wants to wait or bet on him developing his shot to a respectable level because of Scottie and I get it but I would take him regardless and do everything I can to improve his shot. At his size when he gets downhill He's like a mini Zion. He's simply just a very good basketball player.

to Grant

Did you watch him shoot at the combine? He won't become a better shooter from 3 than Draymond. Draymond is a 32% 3pt shooter, which is better than MJ and Kobe! Though in today's NBA if he's shooting more than a wide open catch and shoot it's hurting the team.

Fleming isn't overrated. He's being mocked in the teens and even in the 20's. Those that like him know that he can be on Bam's level who was drafted 14th. A taller lankier Bam that can shoot 3's might be his ceiling but damn, that's insane. Maybe a shorter Serge Ibaka that can guard 3-5?

So one bad combine performance is enough to say he won't be better than Draymond? He improved from 0 to 26% from freshman to sophomore, it's still bad but that shows he worked on it and got some results. I don't think his motion is as broken as Draymond's was coming out. In a few years I can see him making open 3s at a 35% clip.

[BoyzNTheHood]

How badly does the team with Cowardly Dick get roasted?

[WuTang_CMB]

fischer

There's an argument to be made that this June's NBA Draft truly starts at pick No. 3, where the Philadelphia 76ers are poised to sift through plenty of optionality between now and Daryl Morey's turn on the clock.



The whole basketball world knows Cooper Flagg is headed to Dallas after the Mavericks shockingly landed the No. 1 pick in last week's lottery drawing. At No. 2, after San Antonio improbably leapt into its own lottery luck, Victor Wembanyama's Spurs certainly don't appear to be a hand-in-glove fit for Rutgers point guard Dylan Harper, but I haven’t spoken to a single NBA figure who projects Harper as anything other than the second player off the board — no matter which team is making the selection.


To this point, furthermore, numerous rival teams continue to believe that the Spurs will ultimately hold onto their pick and welcome Harper into their backcourt alongside De'Aaron Fox and Stephon Castle.
Which brings us to Philly ...


The Sixers are well-positioned to thrust themselves into a lot of leaguewide trade conversation, since there will be teams that rate Rutgers forward Ace Bailey, Harper's star running mate, ahead of the other near-consensus prospect bound for the top four: Baylor's V.J. Edgecombe. Also true? There will be teams that rank them in inverse order on their boards.


So the prospect of Morey, Philadelphia's president of basketball operations, selecting either — or maybe even Texas guard Tre Johnson over Bailey and Edgecombe — should generate significant inbound trade interest in that draft slot.
League sources tell The Stein Line that the Sixers are expected to at least listen to trade-down opportunities ... but likewise stress that they are not expected to trade out of the pick entirely.


Sources say Philadelphia greatly values the opportunity to add a young player to its core, which already features 24-year-old Tyrese Maxey and soon-to-be-second-year guard Jared McCain to complement the veteran duo of Joel Embiid and Paul George.
Don't expect that duo, furthermore, to be broken up. Sources say that recent reports suggesting that the Sixers will be looking to explore George's trade market in conjunction with the draft are a misread. There have been no indications that they are looking to package George with the No. 3 pick or try to move him on his own. The Sixers surely understand that there is little-to-no chance they could optimize a trade return for the 35-year-old after his injury-riddled maiden season as a Sixer ... especially with three seasons remaining on George's max deal.
It has been whispered often in league circles, going back to Philadelphia's free agency courtship of George last summer, that the Sixers would not turn around and try to move their marquee acquisition in the early stages of his Philly tenure unless George asked for a deal himself.
Something else the Sixers understand very clearly: Their hopes of competing for a championship after this season's 24-58 misery almost certainly hinge on Embiid's health and effectiveness rather than trying to concoct some George deal.
Perhaps there will be significant trade intrigue emanating from The City of Brotherly Love starting next Dec. 15, when Trade Season 2025-26 commences, if Embiid can't return to form. But the Sixers' short-term focus is the forthcoming infusion of high-lottery youth.
Productive players who are on rookie-scale contracts, as the Sixers discovered early this season before McCain sustained a season-ending meniscus injury, have never been more valuable in this era of dreaded luxury tax aprons.


A picture from the Sixers' Twitter feed of Jared McCain, who was chosen as their on-stage representative, clutching the card that confirmed Philadelphia had soared to No. 3 in last week's NBA Draft Lottery.


Over in Phoenix ...
Tantalizing as it might be to try match George's salary with Kevin Durant's in Trade Machine hypotheticals, Phoenix has not yet initiated any trade bidding for its superstar forward.
It has been widely anticipated that Durant, who turns 37 in September, will be back on the trade market this summer in the wake of the Suns' myriad trade explorations involving No. 35 leading up to February's in-season trade deadline. A return to the desert next season, though, has not been fully ruled out.
Not yet.

New Suns general manager Brian Gregory has been focused initially on the team's search for a new head coach, which — as detailed in Sunday's around-the-league notes from the founder of The Stein Line — has just moved into its second phase.
One roster rumble that has emerged from the desert: Sources say that Phoenix, whether or not Durant is ultimately dealt before training camp, will be prioritizing the addition of a starting-level center this offseason. The Suns want a further upgrade on the move they made during the season to deal away Jusuf Nurkić and replace him with Nick Richards via Charlotte.


Back to the Atlantic Division ...
For all the speculation already in circulation about Boston potentially making Jrue Holiday available via trade this offseason to ease their mounting luxury tax concerns, bear in mind that actually trading Holiday might be harder than it sounds.
Multiple rival executives have passed along that, for all of Holiday's unquestioned championship know-how after contributing to title teams in Milwaukee and Boston, some form of incentive (such as draft compensation) might have to be attached to Holiday's contract by the Celtics to convince someone to absorb the $104 million remaining on the 34-year-old's deal over the next three seasons.
Holiday and Kristaps Porziņģis — who is under contract for only one more season at $30.7 million — are frequently mentioned as potential trade candidates should Boston ultimately decide to try to reduce its payroll in the wake of Jayson Tatum's devastating Achilles tear. Porziņģis' expiring deal is naturally regarded as the easier contract to move.
"I know there will be a lot of questions about what's next," Stevens said Monday at his end-of-season news conference. "At the end of the day I think that will all be driven by the same thing that's always driven us. And that's: 'How do we get ourselves in the mix to compete for championships best?' I think that we'll get more clarity as we take a deep breath [and] get a little more sleep than we have the last three nights."
Stevens added: "I'd rather not talk about the CBA and all that crap. The reality is we blew the first two games [against the Knicks] and that's why we put ourselves in a tough spot."

[dohboy_24]

So one bad combine performance is enough to say he won't be better than Draymond? He improved from 0 to 26% from freshman to sophomore, it's still bad but that shows he worked on it and got some results. I don't think his motion is as broken as Draymond's was coming out. In a few years I can see him making open 3s at a 35% clip.

These are the last ten (10) prospects drafted from South Carolina:

GG Jackson (2023 - #45 pick)
Sindarius Thornwell (2017 - #48 pick)
Renaldo Balkman (2006 - #20 pick)
Ryan Stack (1998 - #48 pick)
Jamie Watson (1994 - #47 pick)
Michael Foster (1987 - #144 pick)
Duan Kendall (1986 - #140 pick)
Mike Brittain (1985 - #29 pick)
Jim Foster (1984 - #102 pick)
Brad Jergenson (1984 - #182 pick)

Aside from his skills as a prospect and ability to improve his 3pt shooting rate, I'm not conceived the South Carolina Gamecocks can produce a lottery-level talent or even a solid rotational NBA player.

[WuTang_CMB]

klutch does the best hype machine vids lol

Read on Twitter

[billy_hoyle]

I'd trade Dick for the 16th pick in a second.

Then i'm very glad you're not making decisions for this FO because that is egregious asset management.

The only case in point is your continued smug arrogance like you know it all

It doesn't take a genius to determine you can get better value for Gradey than the 16th pick in any draft. Like, i'm not advocating for trading Dick right now, but aim higher than that if you're going to make a proposal for getting another pick in this draft.

Yes you gave examples of trades that you have no idea whether or not the other team would have any interest in and/or if the asking price would be higher since they are in fact more established pieces than even Gradey himself (which btw you also edited in AFTER I had already responded hence why it's not in this quote -- just like I see you did this one but I'm not responding to all that added junk now lol).

By that same logic, you have no idea whether the Magic wouldn't prefer using the 16th pick instead of trading for Dick when they quite literally passed over him in the 2023 NBA Draft. Hell, maybe they do rate him but they value him as the 24th pick - or they could very well prefer someone like Anfernee Simons. After all, you you have no idea whether or not the other team would have any interest.

For the Magic specifically, Orlando is notorious for not making phone calls to other FOs to make trades, they just pick it up the phone when someone calls them: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ad-injury-impact-bold-quotes-from-dallas-james-harden/id293376147?i=1000690796818

But I guess considering Orlando might not even want Gradey Dick is Super Smug Bros. 2: The Lost Smugness.

Also no one disputed using Ochai or RJ instead, that was you just thinking you're so much smarter than everyone else lol I'm sure if that were an option most would agree to that route instead but the whole reason why people mention Dick's name would be the higher perceived value to get an asset you desire. It's unlikely in this hypothetical that ORL wants to trade their 1st for a potential year rental like Ochai (and want a higher upside) and they certainly don't want to take on more salary with RJ especially with his lack of shooting.

It's very funny for someone to make a judgement call about my reading comprehension when they clearly are either unable or unwilling to grasp the simple concept of "We do not need to make this decision right now for the 16th pick in the draft so the best course of action is to evaluate who does/not fit and then move them once you get to see what this team looks like with a presumably healthy roster".

It is not that complicated, it shouldn't have to be spelled out and yet, here we are.

Also Ochai is an RFA in 2026 if he isn't extended so calling them a "1 year rental" is just straight up misleading. No team is trading for Agbaji and then letting him walk when they'll be cheap to retain and offers a useful skillset in the modern NBA, regardless of what they evaluate his value to be.

The last part is just your usual smugness and/or just poor comprehension because I didn't say Battle was THE reason, only a PART of it.

In no world should Jamison Battle be a factor in your team's decision-making for the future of 3 players who are better than him. KJ Simpson is not going to be a factor for the Hornets in figuring out what they do with LaMelo Ball and if they were, then that's just another example of Charlotte's management engaging in malpractice.

The previous poster mentioned the value of Dick's movement shooting which Battle has just factually been substantially better at no matter how you try (and fail) to mock but that was only a part of it.

Do you know what the word "factually" means? Because not only is that not "factually true", it's ignoring context such as where Dick is in the pecking order for opposing team's scouting report vs. Battle.

KJ Simpson should be a consideration when determining what to do with Nick Smith Jr. Comparing bench players to all stars is silly.

Battle shot the 3 at an elite rate. Dick has been average at best. If that trend continues, Battle should definitely eat into Dicks minutes.

Should FVV been prioritized over Delon Wright? Of course. Production matters, not draft pedigree.

[dohboy_24]

klutch does the best hype machine vids lol

Not sure I would agree, especially since it's a DraftExpress video...

[JCP11]

So one bad combine performance is enough to say he won't be better than Draymond? He improved from 0 to 26% from freshman to sophomore, it's still bad but that shows he worked on it and got some results. I don't think his motion is as broken as Draymond's was coming out. In a few years I can see him making open 3s at a 35% clip.

These are the last ten (10) prospects drafted from South Carolina:

GG Jackson (2023 - #45 pick)
Sindarius Thornwell (2017 - #48 pick)
Renaldo Balkman (2006 - #20 pick)
Ryan Stack (1998 - #48 pick)
Jamie Watson (1994 - #47 pick)
Michael Foster (1987 - #144 pick)
Duan Kendall (1986 - #140 pick)
Mike Brittain (1985 - #29 pick)
Jim Foster (1984 - #102 pick)
Brad Jergenson (1984 - #182 pick)

Aside from his skills as a prospect and ability to improve his 3pt shooting rate, I'm not conceived the South Carolina Gamecocks can produce a lottery-level talent or even a solid rotational NBA player.

These guys have nothing to do with him and his career. I remember in college football Jeff Tedford had the reputation that all his QBs flamed in the NFL and then Aaron Rodgers came along. CMB is his own man and his future is not tied to these guys and he'll probably be the one who breaks that streak.

[dohboy_24]

These guys have nothing to do with him and his career. I remember in college football Jeff Tedford had the reputation that all his QBs flamed in the NFL and then Aaron Rodgers came along. CMB is his own man and his future is not tied to these guys and he'll probably be the one who breaks that streak.

Agreed, but I'm still not convinced until proven otherwise. Even though CMB is arguably the best prospect to ever come out of South Carolina, I'm not going to risk a top 10 draft pick on him breaking the mold...

[WuTang_CMB]

I still also really like thomas sorber. solid measurements and a stock feen

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[earthtone]

I'd trade Dick for the 16th pick in a second.

Then i'm very glad you're not making decisions for this FO because that is egregious asset management.

The only case in point is your continued smug arrogance like you know it all

It doesn't take a genius to determine you can get better value for Gradey than the 16th pick in any draft. Like, i'm not advocating for trading Dick right now, but aim higher than that if you're going to make a proposal for getting another pick in this draft.

Yes you gave examples of trades that you have no idea whether or not the other team would have any interest in and/or if the asking price would be higher since they are in fact more established pieces than even Gradey himself (which btw you also edited in AFTER I had already responded hence why it's not in this quote -- just like I see you did this one but I'm not responding to all that added junk now lol).

By that same logic, you have no idea whether the Magic wouldn't prefer using the 16th pick instead of trading for Dick when they quite literally passed over him in the 2023 NBA Draft. Hell, maybe they do rate him but they value him as the 24th pick - or they could very well prefer someone like Anfernee Simons. After all, you you have no idea whether or not the other team would have any interest.

For the Magic specifically, Orlando is notorious for not making phone calls to other FOs to make trades, they just pick it up the phone when someone calls them: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ad-injury-impact-bold-quotes-from-dallas-james-harden/id293376147?i=1000690796818

But I guess considering Orlando might not even want Gradey Dick is Super Smug Bros. 2: The Lost Smugness.

Also no one disputed using Ochai or RJ instead, that was you just thinking you're so much smarter than everyone else lol I'm sure if that were an option most would agree to that route instead but the whole reason why people mention Dick's name would be the higher perceived value to get an asset you desire. It's unlikely in this hypothetical that ORL wants to trade their 1st for a potential year rental like Ochai (and want a higher upside) and they certainly don't want to take on more salary with RJ especially with his lack of shooting.

It's very funny for someone to make a judgement call about my reading comprehension when they clearly are either unable or unwilling to grasp the simple concept of "We do not need to make this decision right now for the 16th pick in the draft so the best course of action is to evaluate who does/not fit and then move them once you get to see what this team looks like with a presumably healthy roster".

It is not that complicated, it shouldn't have to be spelled out and yet, here we are.

Also Ochai is an RFA in 2026 if he isn't extended so calling them a "1 year rental" is just straight up misleading. No team is trading for Agbaji and then letting him walk when they'll be cheap to retain and offers a useful skillset in the modern NBA, regardless of what they evaluate his value to be.

The last part is just your usual smugness and/or just poor comprehension because I didn't say Battle was THE reason, only a PART of it.

In no world should Jamison Battle be a factor in your team's decision-making for the future of 3 players who are better than him. KJ Simpson is not going to be a factor for the Hornets in figuring out what they do with LaMelo Ball and if they were, then that's just another example of Charlotte's management engaging in malpractice.

The previous poster mentioned the value of Dick's movement shooting which Battle has just factually been substantially better at no matter how you try (and fail) to mock but that was only a part of it.

Do you know what the word "factually" means? Because not only is that not "factually true", it's ignoring context such as where Dick is in the pecking order for opposing team's scouting report vs. Battle.

KJ Simpson should be a consideration when determining what to do with Nick Smith Jr. Comparing bench players to all stars is silly.

Battle shot the 3 at an elite rate. Dick has been average at best. If that trend continues, Battle should definitely eat into Dicks minutes.

Should FVV been prioritized over Delon Wright? Of course. Production matters, not draft pedigree.

Battle has the ability to knock down open shots, which is valuable and will get him a long career in the league if he keeps that up. Dick has the ability to generate open shots for others, which is a much more valuable skill. He can run around a stagger screen, draw multiple defenders out past the 3pt line, hit a pump fake and create a paint touch. He can attack off the catch and get to the rim. He can grab a defensive rebound and hit a pull-up three in transition. He can also, like Jamison, hit open shots others have created.

Dick's role is so much harder and he's been very good at it for his age. If he was only asked to stand and hit open corner threes like Battle is, I'm sure their percentages would look very similar. I like Jamison and hope he carves out a long term role on this team/in the league, but him and Gradey aren't the same caliber of prospect at all.

[Duffman100]

I still also really like thomas sorber. solid measurements and a stock feen

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Someone said "Duncan lite".

I like the idea of an under the radar, high impact player who isn't sexy.

[WuTang_CMB]

klutch does the best hype machine vids lol

Not sure I would agree, especially since it's a DraftExpress video...

This is klutch event, they take all the vids
givony doesnt have camera ppl following him lol

[RoteSchroder]

Not a fan of drafting CMB given our roster construction (and all the moaning from fans about a lack of spacing that would likely follow), but I’ll say this: if anyone in this draft has the potential to have a Kawhi-like outcome, it’s him. In college, kawhi was an elite defensive playmaker, rebounder, and a great on-ball driver for his size/role. Out of the grouping of forwards folks are talking about (Fleming, Bryant, Essengue), CMB is the only one that checks all those boxes. The stats back this up. Also, like Kawhi, His feel for the game is miles ahead of the others.

Bryant is a fine defender, Fleming is an overrated one, and Essengue is quite bad on defense. Bryant is also the only one that I trust will shoot it well enough to where defenses respect him. Nobody in this grouping has much on ball juice (Fleming is particularly bad here). I don’t buy the idea that any of these guys is a safe pick. IMO, we should be going for upside in the lottery.

For me it's simple, if he develops a shot he's a top 3 player in this draft, the rest of his game is already well advanced for a sophomore. Not a lot of people here wants to wait or bet on him developing his shot to a respectable level because of Scottie and I get it but I would take him regardless and do everything I can to improve his shot. At his size when he gets downhill He's like a mini Zion. He's simply just a very good basketball player.

to Grant

Did you watch him shoot at the combine? He won't become a better shooter from 3 than Draymond. Draymond is a 32% 3pt shooter, which is better than MJ and Kobe! Though in today's NBA if he's shooting more than a wide open catch and shoot it's hurting the team.

Fleming isn't overrated. He's being mocked in the teens and even in the 20's. Those that like him know that he can be on Bam's level who was drafted 14th. A taller lankier Bam that can shoot 3's might be his ceiling but damn, that's insane. Maybe a shorter Serge Ibaka that can guard 3-5?

Although I have doubts that CMB would be able to improve much in the near future, shooting is a bit hard to project. Even crazy hard workers like Derozan, Butler have yet to perfect 3 point shooting, and we thought Siakam would never get there, but he started improving as he was about to be traded.

I more so dislike the modern day socialites and prefer the old school Kobe, DD, Siakam types, which is why I have my concerns about CMB. He has star potential if he gets that shot down, whereas Fleming is a role player through and through.

Fleming being compared to Ibaka and Bam is overrating him.

[dohboy_24]

Every year there is at least one player who rises up the draft boards between now and the day of the draft.

Last year, it was Tidjane Saluan. In 2023, it was Bilal Coulibaly. In 2022, it was Shaedon Sharpe. In 2021, it was Scottie Barnes. In 2020, it was Jalen Smith and Isaiah Stewart.

This year, who do you think is going to be the biggest draft riser?

[JCP11]

These guys have nothing to do with him and his career. I remember in college football Jeff Tedford had the reputation that all his QBs flamed in the NFL and then Aaron Rodgers came along. CMB is his own man and his future is not tied to these guys and he'll probably be the one who breaks that streak.

Agreed, but I'm still not convinced until proven otherwise. Even though CMB is arguably the best prospect to ever come out of South Carolina, I'm not going to risk a top 10 draft pick on him breaking the mold...

To that I say don't scout the jersey scout the player. I would rather you telling me that you just don't believe in him ever developing his shot than linking his future to his college program but hey it's your opinion and I respect it.

[PhilBlackson]

klutch does the best hype machine vids lol

Not sure I would agree, especially since it's a DraftExpress video...

This is klutch event, they take all the vids
givony doesnt have camera ppl following him lol

Khaman keeps looking pretty impressive though, it’s getting to the point where I’m almost letting go of hope he’ll fall to us.

I don’t see all 3 teams ahead of us passing on him….sigh.

[niQ]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Yallbecrazy]

So one bad combine performance is enough to say he won't be better than Draymond? He improved from 0 to 26% from freshman to sophomore, it's still bad but that shows he worked on it and got some results. I don't think his motion is as broken as Draymond's was coming out. In a few years I can see him making open 3s at a 35% clip.

These are the last ten (10) prospects drafted from South Carolina:

GG Jackson (2023 - #45 pick)
Sindarius Thornwell (2017 - #48 pick)
Renaldo Balkman (2006 - #20 pick)
Ryan Stack (1998 - #48 pick)
Jamie Watson (1994 - #47 pick)
Michael Foster (1987 - #144 pick)
Duan Kendall (1986 - #140 pick)
Mike Brittain (1985 - #29 pick)
Jim Foster (1984 - #102 pick)
Brad Jergenson (1984 - #182 pick)

Aside from his skills as a prospect and ability to improve his 3pt shooting rate, I'm not conceived the South Carolina Gamecocks can produce a lottery-level talent or even a solid rotational NBA player.

These guys have nothing to do with him and his career. I remember in college football Jeff Tedford had the reputation that all his QBs flamed in the NFL and then Aaron Rodgers came along. CMB is his own man and his future is not tied to these guys and he'll probably be the one who breaks that streak.

It's an absolutely ridiculous comment, and actually goes against what he is trying to prove. If a player goes to a crap program with crap coaching and players and is incredibly impactful shouldn't that be worth more than doing it at Duke?
He went to USC because he's from Columbus and his dad was a huge Gamecock fan. GG Jackson had a negative BPM while on USC. CMB had one of the highest in all of college basketball and nearly 3x his closest teammate.

[earthtone]

Every year there is at least one player who rises up the draft boards between now and the day of the draft.

Last year, it was Tidjane Saluan. In 2023, it was Bilal Coulibaly. In 2022, it was Shaedon Sharpe. In 2021, it was Scottie Barnes. In 2020, it was Jalen Smith and Isaiah Stewart.

This year, who do you think is going to be the biggest draft riser?

I think it's gonna be Essengue for sure. That combination of age/size/production level has Top 10 written all over it, I think he's in play anywhere from #5 down