Most likely offseason outcome

[Stratmaster]

If Pwill is being considered a starter from last year (he was before the trade deadline) I am on the "trade 2 starters" line. And before someone says it, don't ask me what the Bulls can get for Pwill, because I am talking about a dump, not a trade of any value.

The problem with that is I'm skeptical a straight dump is even possible. Are you willing to attach positive value assets to him to get him off the roster? I'm not.

If there is someone on this roster that another team really wants, and their name isn't Josh or Matas, I am all for attaching PWill to them; not the other way around. In other words, the Bulls are getting some value back for the unnamed player and offloading PWill as part of it. I did not say "equal" value back for the unnamed player. I am under no illusions of that, and the player they want would have to be one of the Bulls value contracts to offset the Williams contract. I also have to face that a deal at the trade deadline would be much more likely than in the off-season and even that would require the right circumstances (contending team #3 scorer injury and they want Coby White badly, or something along those lines).

Can you believe that Williams has already "earned" 50 million dollars playing basketball; well, actually by "not" playing basketball and playing basketball "poorly". And he has another 72 million coming to him. That player option, instead of team option, in year 5 is a real killer. He should be embarrassed enough to at least give half of it to charity. It would be outright theft if the people he stole it from hadn't willingly offered it to him.

Maybe he will show up with a different attitude and the eye of the tiger in the coming season.

[Stratmaster]

Where’s the Coby/PWill/Jalen Smith/fillers/#12/Portland pick for Jamal Murray trade? Now that’s the AK Special.

Exactly. Make a smart pick, trade Vuc if you can, let the young roster do its thing, evaluate for a year, let the chips fall where they may.

Do not rush. I don’t think this is a playoff or possibly not even play-in team next year unless Matas blows the roof off, which I heavily doubt. To me that’s a year 4 projection for him, late year 3 maybe. Get another solid draft pick to use or trade, get more info about your roster, and then start being a little more affirmative with your moves to start building something more set.

P.S. Just saw the posts calling this type of plan dumb, which I get given AK’s incredible ability to waste player value. But part of evaluating the team means evaluating Coby White. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to evaluate Coby White given the nature of the last two months of the season. If that’s real, that’s a keeper.

As for Ayo and really any other role players on the team, I think most of us assume “standing pat with only minor moves” means trading any of those guys to maybe move up a couple of spots in the draft, trade for other role players, trade for second rounders to open up a roster spot, etc. I don’t think it means “do nothing and let the assets rot.” At least that’s not what I mean.

My issue with the bolded part, is that comment could have just as easily been made in May of 2024. He had an unbelievable March. If you continue to allow him to attempt to score on 25 possessions a game he will certainly put up points. He's getting a couple more free throws per game the last couple seasons compared to previous years (on significantly higher usage), and he hit 90% of them last season. Other than that (usage and getting to the line a little more), I see the same player. Don't take that wrong. That's a good player, and a keeper for a "3rd guy", likely off the bench. But in the role they have given him they will almost certainly significantly overpay if they decide to keep him.

I hope Coby proves me wrong, and you right; because if he doesn't then this team has exactly 2 players worth watching and that is just based on hope for development. I just don't see it.

[sco]

Where’s the Coby/PWill/Jalen Smith/fillers/#12/Portland pick for Jamal Murray trade? Now that’s the AK Special.

Exactly. Make a smart pick, trade Vuc if you can, let the young roster do its thing, evaluate for a year, let the chips fall where they may.

Do not rush. I don’t think this is a playoff or possibly not even play-in team next year unless Matas blows the roof off, which I heavily doubt. To me that’s a year 4 projection for him, late year 3 maybe. Get another solid draft pick to use or trade, get more info about your roster, and then start being a little more affirmative with your moves to start building something more set.

P.S. Just saw the posts calling this type of plan dumb, which I get given AK’s incredible ability to waste player value. But part of evaluating the team means evaluating Coby White. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to evaluate Coby White given the nature of the last two months of the season. If that’s real, that’s a keeper.

As for Ayo and really any other role players on the team, I think most of us assume “standing pat with only minor moves” means trading any of those guys to maybe move up a couple of spots in the draft, trade for other role players, trade for second rounders to open up a roster spot, etc. I don’t think it means “do nothing and let the assets rot.” At least that’s not what I mean.

My issue with the bolded part, is that comment could have just as easily been made in May of 2024. He had an unbelievable March. If you continue to allow him to attempt to score on 25 possessions a game he will certainly put up points. He's getting a couple more free throws per game the last couple seasons compared to previous years (on significantly higher usage), and he hit 90% of them last season. Other than that (usage and getting to the line a little more), I see the same player. Don't take that wrong. That's a good player, and a keeper for a "3rd guy", likely off the bench. But in the role they have given him they will almost certainly significantly overpay if they decide to keep him.

I hope Coby proves me wrong, and you right; because if he doesn't then this team has exactly 2 players worth watching and that is just based on hope for development. I just don't see it.

Yeah, I am admittedly confused on Coby. He did things last season that I haven't seen him do consistently (improved handle, scoring in the paint, drawing fouls). If he plays like that all next season, he's a keeper at $30M. I suspect that teams will/already figure(d) him out and his efficiency will drop back to normal levels, at which point you have a guy you don't want for more than MLE $ in a 6th man role. The "trade him this season" noise takes that risk off the table; however, say we get two (non-lotto) firsts back for him, it's likely neither is even that good, but, then again, they could be bundles to bring back a potentially better player. Tough call.

[League Circles]

Exactly. Make a smart pick, trade Vuc if you can, let the young roster do its thing, evaluate for a year, let the chips fall where they may.

Do not rush. I don’t think this is a playoff or possibly not even play-in team next year unless Matas blows the roof off, which I heavily doubt. To me that’s a year 4 projection for him, late year 3 maybe. Get another solid draft pick to use or trade, get more info about your roster, and then start being a little more affirmative with your moves to start building something more set.

P.S. Just saw the posts calling this type of plan dumb, which I get given AK’s incredible ability to waste player value. But part of evaluating the team means evaluating Coby White. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to evaluate Coby White given the nature of the last two months of the season. If that’s real, that’s a keeper.

As for Ayo and really any other role players on the team, I think most of us assume “standing pat with only minor moves” means trading any of those guys to maybe move up a couple of spots in the draft, trade for other role players, trade for second rounders to open up a roster spot, etc. I don’t think it means “do nothing and let the assets rot.” At least that’s not what I mean.

My issue with the bolded part, is that comment could have just as easily been made in May of 2024. He had an unbelievable March. If you continue to allow him to attempt to score on 25 possessions a game he will certainly put up points. He's getting a couple more free throws per game the last couple seasons compared to previous years (on significantly higher usage), and he hit 90% of them last season. Other than that (usage and getting to the line a little more), I see the same player. Don't take that wrong. That's a good player, and a keeper for a "3rd guy", likely off the bench. But in the role they have given him they will almost certainly significantly overpay if they decide to keep him.

I hope Coby proves me wrong, and you right; because if he doesn't then this team has exactly 2 players worth watching and that is just based on hope for development. I just don't see it.

Yeah, I am admittedly confused on Coby. He did things last season that I haven't seen him do consistently (improved handle, scoring in the paint, drawing fouls). If he plays like that all next season, he's a keeper at $30M. I suspect that teams will/already figure(d) him out and his efficiency will drop back to normal levels, at which point you have a guy you don't want for more than MLE $ in a 6th man role. The "trade him this season" noise takes that risk off the table; however, say we get two (non-lotto) firsts back for him, it's likely neither is even that good, but, then again, they could be bundles to bring back a potentially better player. Tough call.

I wouldn't take any number of non lottery draft picks for Coby. Quantity isn't quality in the NBA. I'd trade him, but only for someone who has a solid chance to actually be better than him, which would probably mean a top 5 pick in this draft. Which almost certainly won't happen.

[MikeDC]

In general I think it's kind of odd to be talking about the need for some lengthy "evaluation" of a guy who's played 6 seasons of NBA ball and is finishing his second contract.

There's no mystery here to be unravelled. Coby is a guy who shoots well and can be a good scorer and pretty good passer w/o being ball dominant. He'd be an outstanding fit as the 3rd or 4th best player on a team with a couple of all-NBA guys. Otherwise, well, he's like pretty much every other guy in the 60-150 range of NBA players. Because of the nature of basketball, these guys will put up numbers even on a trash team. But nobody should confuse that with them actually being, like, a top 25 player.

Truly, all the AK inspired sage head-nodding about patience and hand-waving about "evaluation" is actually a substitute for evaluation. It's what people say when they're, like AK, in over their head and simply ending up wherever circumstances lead them to be.

To put it simply, if the Bulls throw a wad of cash at Coby, it won't be because they made some "evaluation" that he deserved it. It'll be because they looked around and decided, like with resigning Pat and Vuc, and trading Lavine and DeRozan, it was basically the path of least resistance. If they don't resign him... also the path of least resistance. This is not a front office that is digging into details and fighting hard to get the most favorable contract/best player/most value from deal/most ideal fit of players.

[sco]

In general I think it's kind of odd to be talking about the need for some lengthy "evaluation" of a guy who's played 6 seasons of NBA ball and is finishing his second contract.

There's no mystery here to be unravelled. Coby is a guy who shoots well and can be a good scorer and pretty good passer w/o being ball dominant. He'd be an outstanding fit as the 3rd or 4th best player on a team with a couple of all-NBA guys. Otherwise, well, he's like pretty much every other guy in the 60-150 range of NBA players. Because of the nature of basketball, these guys will put up numbers even on a trash team. But nobody should confuse that with them actually being, like, a top 25 player.

Truly, all the AK inspired sage head-nodding about patience and hand-waving about "evaluation" is actually a substitute for evaluation. It's what people say when they're, like AK, in over their head and simply ending up wherever circumstances lead them to be.

To put it simply, if the Bulls throw a wad of cash at Coby, it won't be because they made some "evaluation" that he deserved it. It'll be because they looked around and decided, like with resigning Pat and Vuc, and trading Lavine and DeRozan, it was basically the path of least resistance. If they don't resign him... also the path of least resistance. This is not a front office that is digging into details and fighting hard to get the most favorable contract/best player/most value from deal/most ideal fit of players.

True enough. I would say that Coby was doing things this season that we haven't seen before, coupling that with his work ethic, it is conceivable that he made some sort of a leap that is sustainable, and it would be meaningful from the perspective that he could be a 2nd option guy, and not a 3rd option guy.

[drosestruts]

It's a bit of an odd spot going into an offseason with 12 players already under contract, and two additional players entering free agency that you could see the team re-signing (Giddey and Tre Jones).

If we "do nothing" but re-sign our two free agents and draft players with both of our picks, we'll actually be at 16 players.

I do think we'll make a play for Kuminga. I think our front office can be pretty transparent at times. When Caruso to Golden State rumors were happening the hangup seemed to be that the Bulls wanted Kuminga and the Warriors wanted to keep him. Much like when we were rumored to be interested in Lonzo then didn't acquire him till the summer, I think we'll see a similar situation unfold with Kuminga - I'm just not sure who we'll be sending out on our end.

If there were a player I liked at #3 I'd be interested to see if the Bulls could get in on these PG13 + #3 rumors, but I'm just not sure that's worth it.

We no doubt have a glut of guards with Giddey, White, Jones, Ball, Dosunmu, Huerter, and Carter. Which could be come even worse if we draft a guard (which we should not be afraid to do if that's what the best player available is). It's possible what we offer in exchange for Kuminga could be some of our guards (most people assume Vuc, but not sure Golden State is all that interested).

Which does bring me to Vuc. I am and have been so over watching Vucevic play. If we can't trade him I'd seriously consider negotiating a buyout with him. It's just time to move on, and he's stated he'd like to opportunity to compete.

While I would like to re-sign Tre Jones and felt he was playing real well for us - it would be a miss to not explore the sign and trade market for him. Orlando is a young team who could use a point guard upgrade and could offer draft compensation in exchange for someone like Jones. Our value received from trading LaVine doesn't have to have ended with the LaVine trade itself. Between sign and trade opportunities for Jones, and the expiring contracts of players like Huerter and Collins - there does exist the opportunity to continue extracting value from this trade. And any front office doing their due diligence would explore these opportunities.


Offseason check-list:

- Re-sign Giddey
- Explore S&T opportunities for Tre Jones or Re-sign him
- Explore trading for Kuminga
- One way or another, end the relationship with Vuc
- Draft BPA at 12 and 45

[sco]

It's a bit of an odd spot going into an offseason with 12 players already under contract, and two additional players entering free agency that you could see the team re-signing (Giddey and Tre Jones).

If we "do nothing" but re-sign our two free agents and draft players with both of our picks, we'll actually be at 16 players.

I do think we'll make a play for Kuminga. I think our front office can be pretty transparent at times. When Caruso to Golden State rumors were happening the hangup seemed to be that the Bulls wanted Kuminga and the Warriors wanted to keep him. Much like when we were rumored to be interested in Lonzo then didn't acquire him till the summer, I think we'll see a similar situation unfold with Kuminga - I'm just not sure who we'll be sending out on our end.

If there were a player I liked at #3 I'd be interested to see if the Bulls could get in on these PG13 + #3 rumors, but I'm just not sure that's worth it.

We no doubt have a glut of guards with Giddey, White, Jones, Ball, Dosunmu, Huerter, and Carter. Which could be come even worse if we draft a guard (which we should not be afraid to do if that's what the best player available is). It's possible what we offer in exchange for Kuminga could be some of our guards (most people assume Vuc, but not sure Golden State is all that interested).

Which does bring me to Vuc. I am and have been so over watching Vucevic play. If we can't trade him I'd seriously consider negotiating a buyout with him. It's just time to move on, and he's stated he'd like to opportunity to compete.

While I would like to re-sign Tre Jones and felt he was playing real well for us - it would be a miss to not explore the sign and trade market for him. Orlando is a young team who could use a point guard upgrade and could offer draft compensation in exchange for someone like Jones. Our value received from trading LaVine doesn't have to have ended with the LaVine trade itself. Between sign and trade opportunities for Jones, and the expiring contracts of players like Huerter and Collins - there does exist the opportunity to continue extracting value from this trade. And any front office doing their due diligence would explore these opportunities.


Offseason check-list:

- Re-sign Giddey
- Explore S&T opportunities for Tre Jones or Re-sign him
- Explore trading for Kuminga
- One way or another, end the relationship with Vuc
- Draft BPA at 12 and 45

Get out of my head!!!

I don't see a S&T for Jones just given that he'll cost less than the MLE.

The Kuminga noise seems to be for Vuc/Ball, which would increase my desire to keep Jones. That said, GSW is supposedly targeting BroLo, which would make a ton of sense for them, but they might prefer the Vuc/Ball combo...dunno.

[jnrjr79]

In general I think it's kind of odd to be talking about the need for some lengthy "evaluation" of a guy who's played 6 seasons of NBA ball and is finishing his second contract.

There's no mystery here to be unravelled. Coby is a guy who shoots well and can be a good scorer and pretty good passer w/o being ball dominant. He'd be an outstanding fit as the 3rd or 4th best player on a team with a couple of all-NBA guys. Otherwise, well, he's like pretty much every other guy in the 60-150 range of NBA players. Because of the nature of basketball, these guys will put up numbers even on a trash team. But nobody should confuse that with them actually being, like, a top 25 player.

Truly, all the AK inspired sage head-nodding about patience and hand-waving about "evaluation" is actually a substitute for evaluation. It's what people say when they're, like AK, in over their head and simply ending up wherever circumstances lead them to be.

To put it simply, if the Bulls throw a wad of cash at Coby, it won't be because they made some "evaluation" that he deserved it. It'll be because they looked around and decided, like with resigning Pat and Vuc, and trading Lavine and DeRozan, it was basically the path of least resistance. If they don't resign him... also the path of least resistance. This is not a front office that is digging into details and fighting hard to get the most favorable contract/best player/most value from deal/most ideal fit of players.

True enough. I would say that Coby was doing things this season that we haven't seen before, coupling that with his work ethic, it is conceivable that he made some sort of a leap that is sustainable, and it would be meaningful from the perspective that he could be a 2nd option guy, and not a 3rd option guy.

It seems perfectly natural to me that Coby would be getting reevaluated at this stage in his career. He's almost always had a couple of guys ahead of him in the pecking order and wasn't the lead offensive option until the 2nd half of this season after Zach was traded. He obviously ended the year producing at a higher level than earlier in his career. It raises questions like "is that sustainable" and "even if so, how good can you be if Coby is in the lead role?" (I think the answer to #2 is "not very," FWIW).

It doesn't strike me as all that different than the Bulls never seeing what they had in Markkanen because they never gave him the keys, instead having him stand around on the perimeter while Zach did his thing. And while Lauri didn't become a first-tier star once he landed in Utah, he certainly showed a lot more, and it's pretty clear the Bulls never fully realized his potential.

[drosestruts]

It's a bit of an odd spot going into an offseason with 12 players already under contract, and two additional players entering free agency that you could see the team re-signing (Giddey and Tre Jones).

If we "do nothing" but re-sign our two free agents and draft players with both of our picks, we'll actually be at 16 players.

I do think we'll make a play for Kuminga. I think our front office can be pretty transparent at times. When Caruso to Golden State rumors were happening the hangup seemed to be that the Bulls wanted Kuminga and the Warriors wanted to keep him. Much like when we were rumored to be interested in Lonzo then didn't acquire him till the summer, I think we'll see a similar situation unfold with Kuminga - I'm just not sure who we'll be sending out on our end.

If there were a player I liked at #3 I'd be interested to see if the Bulls could get in on these PG13 + #3 rumors, but I'm just not sure that's worth it.

We no doubt have a glut of guards with Giddey, White, Jones, Ball, Dosunmu, Huerter, and Carter. Which could be come even worse if we draft a guard (which we should not be afraid to do if that's what the best player available is). It's possible what we offer in exchange for Kuminga could be some of our guards (most people assume Vuc, but not sure Golden State is all that interested).

Which does bring me to Vuc. I am and have been so over watching Vucevic play. If we can't trade him I'd seriously consider negotiating a buyout with him. It's just time to move on, and he's stated he'd like to opportunity to compete.

While I would like to re-sign Tre Jones and felt he was playing real well for us - it would be a miss to not explore the sign and trade market for him. Orlando is a young team who could use a point guard upgrade and could offer draft compensation in exchange for someone like Jones. Our value received from trading LaVine doesn't have to have ended with the LaVine trade itself. Between sign and trade opportunities for Jones, and the expiring contracts of players like Huerter and Collins - there does exist the opportunity to continue extracting value from this trade. And any front office doing their due diligence would explore these opportunities.


Offseason check-list:

- Re-sign Giddey
- Explore S&T opportunities for Tre Jones or Re-sign him
- Explore trading for Kuminga
- One way or another, end the relationship with Vuc
- Draft BPA at 12 and 45

Get out of my head!!!

I don't see a S&T for Jones just given that he'll cost less than the MLE.

The Kuminga noise seems to be for Vuc/Ball, which would increase my desire to keep Jones. That said, GSW is supposedly targeting BroLo, which would make a ton of sense for them, but they might prefer the Vuc/Ball combo...dunno.

I think Vucevic being the outgoing piece in a Kuminga sing and trade is wishful thinking from Bulls fans.

In my opinion, the outgoing value will have to be closer to something like Coby White and one of Jalen Smith, Jevon Carter, or Dalen Terry.

[ghostinthepost1]

It's a bit of an odd spot going into an offseason with 12 players already under contract, and two additional players entering free agency that you could see the team re-signing (Giddey and Tre Jones).

If we "do nothing" but re-sign our two free agents and draft players with both of our picks, we'll actually be at 16 players.

I do think we'll make a play for Kuminga. I think our front office can be pretty transparent at times. When Caruso to Golden State rumors were happening the hangup seemed to be that the Bulls wanted Kuminga and the Warriors wanted to keep him. Much like when we were rumored to be interested in Lonzo then didn't acquire him till the summer, I think we'll see a similar situation unfold with Kuminga - I'm just not sure who we'll be sending out on our end.

If there were a player I liked at #3 I'd be interested to see if the Bulls could get in on these PG13 + #3 rumors, but I'm just not sure that's worth it.

We no doubt have a glut of guards with Giddey, White, Jones, Ball, Dosunmu, Huerter, and Carter. Which could be come even worse if we draft a guard (which we should not be afraid to do if that's what the best player available is). It's possible what we offer in exchange for Kuminga could be some of our guards (most people assume Vuc, but not sure Golden State is all that interested).

Which does bring me to Vuc. I am and have been so over watching Vucevic play. If we can't trade him I'd seriously consider negotiating a buyout with him. It's just time to move on, and he's stated he'd like to opportunity to compete.

While I would like to re-sign Tre Jones and felt he was playing real well for us - it would be a miss to not explore the sign and trade market for him. Orlando is a young team who could use a point guard upgrade and could offer draft compensation in exchange for someone like Jones. Our value received from trading LaVine doesn't have to have ended with the LaVine trade itself. Between sign and trade opportunities for Jones, and the expiring contracts of players like Huerter and Collins - there does exist the opportunity to continue extracting value from this trade. And any front office doing their due diligence would explore these opportunities.


Offseason check-list:

- Re-sign Giddey
- Explore S&T opportunities for Tre Jones or Re-sign him
- Explore trading for Kuminga
- One way or another, end the relationship with Vuc
- Draft BPA at 12 and 45

Get out of my head!!!

I don't see a S&T for Jones just given that he'll cost less than the MLE.

The Kuminga noise seems to be for Vuc/Ball, which would increase my desire to keep Jones. That said, GSW is supposedly targeting BroLo, which would make a ton of sense for them, but they might prefer the Vuc/Ball combo...dunno.

I think Vucevic being the outgoing piece in a Kuminga sing and trade is wishful thinking from Bulls fans.

In my opinion, the outgoing value will have to be closer to something like Coby White and one of Jalen Smith, Jevon Carter, or Dalen Terry.

I feel like Vuce being involved in a Kuminga S+T makes a lot of sense considering the Warriors had some level of interest in him as recently as 3/4 months ago and his salary roughly matches up with what you'd think someone like Kuminga would make after this trainwreck of a season.

[burlydee]

It's a bit of an odd spot going into an offseason with 12 players already under contract, and two additional players entering free agency that you could see the team re-signing (Giddey and Tre Jones).

If we "do nothing" but re-sign our two free agents and draft players with both of our picks, we'll actually be at 16 players.

I do think we'll make a play for Kuminga. I think our front office can be pretty transparent at times. When Caruso to Golden State rumors were happening the hangup seemed to be that the Bulls wanted Kuminga and the Warriors wanted to keep him. Much like when we were rumored to be interested in Lonzo then didn't acquire him till the summer, I think we'll see a similar situation unfold with Kuminga - I'm just not sure who we'll be sending out on our end.

If there were a player I liked at #3 I'd be interested to see if the Bulls could get in on these PG13 + #3 rumors, but I'm just not sure that's worth it.

We no doubt have a glut of guards with Giddey, White, Jones, Ball, Dosunmu, Huerter, and Carter. Which could be come even worse if we draft a guard (which we should not be afraid to do if that's what the best player available is). It's possible what we offer in exchange for Kuminga could be some of our guards (most people assume Vuc, but not sure Golden State is all that interested).

Which does bring me to Vuc. I am and have been so over watching Vucevic play. If we can't trade him I'd seriously consider negotiating a buyout with him. It's just time to move on, and he's stated he'd like to opportunity to compete.

While I would like to re-sign Tre Jones and felt he was playing real well for us - it would be a miss to not explore the sign and trade market for him. Orlando is a young team who could use a point guard upgrade and could offer draft compensation in exchange for someone like Jones. Our value received from trading LaVine doesn't have to have ended with the LaVine trade itself. Between sign and trade opportunities for Jones, and the expiring contracts of players like Huerter and Collins - there does exist the opportunity to continue extracting value from this trade. And any front office doing their due diligence would explore these opportunities.


Offseason check-list:

- Re-sign Giddey
- Explore S&T opportunities for Tre Jones or Re-sign him
- Explore trading for Kuminga
- One way or another, end the relationship with Vuc
- Draft BPA at 12 and 45

Get out of my head!!!

I don't see a S&T for Jones just given that he'll cost less than the MLE.

The Kuminga noise seems to be for Vuc/Ball, which would increase my desire to keep Jones. That said, GSW is supposedly targeting BroLo, which would make a ton of sense for them, but they might prefer the Vuc/Ball combo...dunno.

I think Vucevic being the outgoing piece in a Kuminga sing and trade is wishful thinking from Bulls fans.

In my opinion, the outgoing value will have to be closer to something like Coby White and one of Jalen Smith, Jevon Carter, or Dalen Terry.

Golden State has little leverage here. No way they get a player who is better than Kuminga for Kuminga. You're basically paying them for facilitating the trade. So maybe they don't want Vuc, but they aren't getting more than Ball or a couple of seconds in any return. They botched this.

[MrSparkle]

With Kuminga, you need to understand he’s not a SF. The league has trended this way, and you have to respect the trend. Tweener PFs can’t really play SF anymore, unless their 3P% is elite.

So honestly, the question becomes how many spot minutes will he play at C? Definitively moving Pat to the deep bench, until he finds some game. I don’t have a problem with any of this.

But Matas and Kuminga likely won’t do very well unless Kuminga is at C.

But imo you take a gamble on upside youth. Little to lose.. I’d say Harrison Barnes and Wiggins are the likely comps. Both did better after they left their first team (coincidentally GS involved both ways). Issues with IQ/teamwork-hustle.

Hard for me to not get behind a Vuc swap, but I also wouldn’t expect much.

[jnrjr79]

Get out of my head!!!

I don't see a S&T for Jones just given that he'll cost less than the MLE.

The Kuminga noise seems to be for Vuc/Ball, which would increase my desire to keep Jones. That said, GSW is supposedly targeting BroLo, which would make a ton of sense for them, but they might prefer the Vuc/Ball combo...dunno.

I think Vucevic being the outgoing piece in a Kuminga sing and trade is wishful thinking from Bulls fans.

In my opinion, the outgoing value will have to be closer to something like Coby White and one of Jalen Smith, Jevon Carter, or Dalen Terry.

I feel like Vuce being involved in a Kuminga S+T makes a lot of sense considering the Warriors had some level of interest in him as recently as 3/4 months ago and his salary roughly matches up with what you'd think someone like Kuminga would make after this trainwreck of a season.

Yeah, I think Kuminga is pretty dicey as a trade prospect, but Vooch makes a lot of sense. They were interested before, they really need shooting (which is a crazy thing to say about GS), and they need size. Draymond also helps with some of Vooch's defensive shortcomings, and Vooch would help them with rebounding.

Plus, for GS, with everyone getting old, it's just a one-year commitment on Vooch to see if they can make a run next season in exchange for a guy they don't want to keep anyway.

It really seems to come down to what kind of a trade market there will be for Kuminga. He's shown a bunch of flashes and also has fallen totally out of the rotation, so I have no idea how the league views him at this point.

[TheJordanRule]

I hate being as skeptical as I am but the repeated futility remains unacceptable. They ain't gon do nothing over the offseason. We grabbed Buz last year, and it's a deeper draft this year so I's praying they hit on the pick, because after Draft Night, we know you guys ain't bringing us squat. Not trying to be a jerk, not even to the jerks who can't come up with a good trade or vision except for last year. We got Giddey. What is your follow up, or vision if you have any? I'll wait...

[ChiTownHero1992]

It'll be the AKME special 100%, can't see any other outcome at this point. They dont EVER admit defeat! Why trade Vooch, it would show they f*d p the last several seasons. Why trade P-Will, it will show they f*d up drafting him and paying him. Nope they 100% will extend Giddey, draft a "middle-of-the-road" guy at #12, add 1-2 bench pieces and preach continuity!

[drosestruts]

I hate being as skeptical as I am but the repeated futility remains unacceptable. They ain't gon do nothing over the offseason. We grabbed Buz last year, and it's a deeper draft this year so I's praying they hit on the pick, because after Draft Night, we know you guys ain't bringing us squat. Not trying to be a jerk, not even to the jerks who can't come up with a good trade or vision except for last year. We got Giddey. What is your follow up, or vision if you have any? I'll wait...

The Bulls look good playing with pace. Giddey, Ball, and Jones are very good high-pace passers.

If you're looking to build upon the trade for Giddey i'd ask some very simple questions of current and potentially future players:

- Can you play fast
- Can you finish at the rim
- Can you space the floor

If the answer to any of those questions are "no", they shouldn't be a part of this team.

When it comes to the draft I think some different prospects pop with this in mind.

Will Riley - shoots 61% at the rim in Half-court sets. I imagine that's only higher if counting fast break opportunities. The 32% 3P% isn't ideal.

Kon Knueppel - 62% at the rim in HC sets. 40% 3P%. Starts looking real attractive if you want to be a fast-paced offense.

Nique Clifford - 65% at the rim. 37% 3P%

Carter Bryant - 72% at the rim. 37% 3P% - eye-popping numbers


and these are just wings. Someone like Joan Beringer as a big who can run the floor and be a vertical spacing threat could completely change the dynamic of our offense.

[Dominator83]

Would love to see them trade #12 for Mark Williams. Not sure that Charlotte does that, but perhaps theres someone they like who still there at #12? Worth a phone call atleast

[drosestruts]

Would love to see them trade #12 for Mark Williams. Not sure that Charlotte does that, but perhaps theres someone they like who still there at #12? Worth a phone call atleast

I like Mark Williams in theory, but in reality he's only played in 106 games over three years.

If that's what we're looking for I'd rather just draft one of Khaman Maluach, Thomas Sorber, Joan Beringer

Can even double down with a second round pick of Maxime Raynaud, Ryan Kalkbrenner.

[MikeDC]

In general I think it's kind of odd to be talking about the need for some lengthy "evaluation" of a guy who's played 6 seasons of NBA ball and is finishing his second contract.

There's no mystery here to be unravelled. Coby is a guy who shoots well and can be a good scorer and pretty good passer w/o being ball dominant. He'd be an outstanding fit as the 3rd or 4th best player on a team with a couple of all-NBA guys. Otherwise, well, he's like pretty much every other guy in the 60-150 range of NBA players. Because of the nature of basketball, these guys will put up numbers even on a trash team. But nobody should confuse that with them actually being, like, a top 25 player.

Truly, all the AK inspired sage head-nodding about patience and hand-waving about "evaluation" is actually a substitute for evaluation. It's what people say when they're, like AK, in over their head and simply ending up wherever circumstances lead them to be.

To put it simply, if the Bulls throw a wad of cash at Coby, it won't be because they made some "evaluation" that he deserved it. It'll be because they looked around and decided, like with resigning Pat and Vuc, and trading Lavine and DeRozan, it was basically the path of least resistance. If they don't resign him... also the path of least resistance. This is not a front office that is digging into details and fighting hard to get the most favorable contract/best player/most value from deal/most ideal fit of players.

True enough. I would say that Coby was doing things this season that we haven't seen before, coupling that with his work ethic, it is conceivable that he made some sort of a leap that is sustainable, and it would be meaningful from the perspective that he could be a 2nd option guy, and not a 3rd option guy.

Man, I really don't think it is conceivable. I think you can come at it from a couple different directions and get to that conclusion.
1. What do teams look like that have a Coby White type player at their 1st or 2nd option? Well, you had last year's Bulls and this year's Bulls. And you can look at teams with broadly similar players... Tyler Herro, DLo, Anfernee Simons. Like, swap Herro and Coby and imagine the Heat this year. Are they much different? Nah, not really. Is Herro a good player? Yeah, in the same sense that Coby is. He actually squeaked into the all-star game. But a team with him and Bam Adebayo (who is a demonstrably more accomplished player than anyone we have) is nothing special.

2. What would an actual contending teams look like with him. Like, put Coby any of the second round teams. I think it would clearly help most of those teams, but I don't think he's actually the 2nd option on any, and in most he's not even the 3rd.
GSW,CLE,DEN,BOS,IND,NYK,OKC

It's pretty obvious, if we stop and think about it:
1. What a team looks like if he's at the top of a heirarchy.
2. Where he'd slot in on a good team.