NBA Trade Thread #12

[Chi town]

Kuminga is fool’s gold. Empty calories. He’d put up big numbers with Giddey and our pace but it wouldn’t be winning ball. He’s more athlete than hooper.

Celts will only trade White if they can’t unload Jrue

I think the Bulls need to take a chance on Kuminga. It’s not the worst possible thing if the Bulls lose a lot of games next year. They need more talent and the draft is the best way to improve the roster.

Kuminga has lots of talent and is very young. He has a chance to be a star. Agreed he may not live up to his potential but the Bulls don’t have many options to improve.

Let’s says get Kuminga on a 3/60 deal for Vuc.

We are effectively paying two bench wings 38M per. Hes not staring over Buz and Bilkybalways plays 2 guards with Giddey.

His salary slot is a problem because of Pat’s dead weight salary.

Only way it works with Kuminga is if he blows up and becomes a positive asset. He would have to drastically develop his 3 ball.

[burlydee]

Kuminga is fool’s gold. Empty calories. He’d put up big numbers with Giddey and our pace but it wouldn’t be winning ball. He’s more athlete than hooper.

Celts will only trade White if they can’t unload Jrue

I think the Bulls need to take a chance on Kuminga. It’s not the worst possible thing if the Bulls lose a lot of games next year. They need more talent and the draft is the best way to improve the roster.

Kuminga has lots of talent and is very young. He has a chance to be a star. Agreed he may not live up to his potential but the Bulls don’t have many options to improve.

I think you make an important point about talent acquisition. The Bulls simply don't have a ton of opportunities to bring in young players. The team needs to acquire young assets. I don't think Kuminga is the answer but they need to talent on the team so they can be in the mix. Let Kuminga come in and improve his value. He's likely a starter on the Bulls.

[Infinity2152]

I totally agree. POR is in an interesting place. The have a bunch of high picks who show varying degrees of promise. They have 3 good guards and 3 good C's, they have Deni, who had a breakout season. They are in a good position to trade for a star. Taking off the restrictions of our pick, could benefit them in terms of putting together a package of future picks to get someone. Separately, I read somewhere that ORL is targeting Simons.

When you look at their highly paid players, it gets worse. Ayton at $35 mill, Grant at $32 mill and Simons at $27 mill. Robert Williams getting $13 mill next season, played 20 games last season, no place to play him. Thybulle at $11.5 mill. That's a lot of money spent for no real stars. And the only players you'd want off their team are on rookie contracts. Horrible cap management. You're right, star trade is a must, they're stuck in the middle.

Not that bad contracts for todays standards and they basically have bunch of expirings next season. They will have ton of flexibility..

Contracts aren't bad individually. Collectively you're spending $119 mill on players who don't move the needle. $35 mill for Ayton, and he's not a great post defender, $32 mill for Grant who's putting up career lows, $13 mill to not play Williams, $11.5 for Thybulle. Only Simons at $27 mill looks worth the money out of the bunch. Your other best players are Deni at $14 mill, Scoot at $10.7, Clingan at $7 mill, Sharpe at $8.3. Seems they could use that $119 mill to much more efficiently put better vets around the young guys. They have flexibility, but access to their picks would make it much easier to move some of those "expensive" guys and add complementary pieces. They're at $171 mill for 13 players, they need to make a big trade to make a leap.

Kuminga's a talent, but Giddey's a big part of our future and we don't know that we're getting a paint protector. Would prefer not to dump a lot into a average-below average defense PF. Bad shooter doesn't help, and if he can't buy into the Warriors system, what are the chances he buys in more with the Bulls? Watching OKC and Wolves, we REALLY need some rangy, athletic defenders. Defensive players period

[HomoSapien]

Random question: If 12 for Clingan was an option would you entertain it?

[Infinity2152]

Random question: If 12 for Clingan was an option would you entertain it?

Absolutely.

[kodo]

From Rip City Project:

There's one nightmare scenario the Portland Trail Blazers must proactively avoid at all costs to fully maximize their return from the blockbuster Damian Lillard deal. If their protected first-round pick conveys to the Chicago Bulls in 2028, the Trail Blazers would lose the ability to use the Milwaukee Bucks' 2028 swap rights because, well, they'd have no pick to swap.

That would ruin a significant part of the Trail Blazers' Lillard trade. It's even more critical that they do everything they can to avoid this outcome now that Milwaukee's roster is hanging on by a thread. Any external additions like Kyle Kuzma were just band-aid solutions, but this Bucks roster is badly wounded and needs far more than that.

Blazers must make sure they can actually cash in on Bucks’ downfall

Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

[HomoSapien]

From Rip City Project:

There's one nightmare scenario the Portland Trail Blazers must proactively avoid at all costs to fully maximize their return from the blockbuster Damian Lillard deal. If their protected first-round pick conveys to the Chicago Bulls in 2028, the Trail Blazers would lose the ability to use the Milwaukee Bucks' 2028 swap rights because, well, they'd have no pick to swap.

That would ruin a significant part of the Trail Blazers' Lillard trade. It's even more critical that they do everything they can to avoid this outcome now that Milwaukee's roster is hanging on by a thread. Any external additions like Kyle Kuzma were just band-aid solutions, but this Bucks roster is badly wounded and needs far more than that.

Blazers must make sure they can actually cash in on Bucks’ downfall

Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Not a fan but I could see it happening. I don't see how the Warriors would work due to salary.

Read on Twitter

[burlydee]

From Rip City Project:

There's one nightmare scenario the Portland Trail Blazers must proactively avoid at all costs to fully maximize their return from the blockbuster Damian Lillard deal. If their protected first-round pick conveys to the Chicago Bulls in 2028, the Trail Blazers would lose the ability to use the Milwaukee Bucks' 2028 swap rights because, well, they'd have no pick to swap.

That would ruin a significant part of the Trail Blazers' Lillard trade. It's even more critical that they do everything they can to avoid this outcome now that Milwaukee's roster is hanging on by a thread. Any external additions like Kyle Kuzma were just band-aid solutions, but this Bucks roster is badly wounded and needs far more than that.

Blazers must make sure they can actually cash in on Bucks’ downfall

Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

[sco]

From Rip City Project:


Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

[Infinity2152]

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

I just think the trade is the Portland pick for their pick this year. Maybe the Bulls throw in a 2nd. Im certainly not trading two firsts for one to get back Ayton. We get out of the PWill contract, but I don't think that is worth a pick. If that pick swap is so important, gives us the # 11, we'll give you #45 and Terry.

Great points in all of these posts!

I agree that sending 12 and POR 1st for #1 is a bad idea. I feel like there was value placed on Ayton, but he's another non-defending, non-3pt shooting big (aka another "AK Special"). To be fair, I tried to come up with something else that would be mutually interesting, but mine were worse. All I could possibly see would be Pat + Vuc + Por 1st for Grant + 11 + filler. I look at Grant as slightly better than Pat and with a 1 yr shorter, but worse deal. 11 is better than Por 1st to us, but Por 1st is likely more valuable to POR than #11. I think I'd do it for the pick value and not having to watch Vuc next season. I'd probably end-up preferring Ayton to Grant at the end of the day because he's on a shorter deal.

Don't think we'd actually want Grant or Ayton at this point. Anybody noticing so many of these 6'7-6'8 slim PF's have horrible rebounding numbers? Grant averaged 3.5 rebounds in over 32 mins last two years. His numbers hit a 5 year low last year, PER 10.9 and he just turned 31. Would rather use that $32 mill on somebody else. And how much better than Vucevic is Ayton? Last season:

Vucevic 18.5 pts, 10.1 rbs, 3.3 assts, FG 53%, 3pt 40%, TS 61%, .7 steals, .8 blocks in 31 mins PER 20.3, BPM 2.6, DPBM .1, VORP 2.7
Ayton 14.4pts, 10.2 rbs, 1.6 assts, FG 57%, 3pt 19%, TS 58% .8 steals, 1 block in 30 mins PER 17.7, BPM -.7, DPBM -.4, VORP .4

Ayton's worse in almost every area, including advanced stats and costs $15 mill more.

Only player I'd want off that team is Shaedon Sharpe. Other than that, they can give up pick 11 for their pick back and that's it.

[Infinity2152]

Not related, I think Coby White's trade value could be pretty damn high. Looking at multiple trade rumors, and although they're just rumors, gives you a base for what outsiders are thinking. Lot of people think Dallas or Orlando will come calling.

White/Williams for Gafford, PJ Washington and Jaden Hardy
White for Jaden Hardy, Kobe Bufkin and 2031 Dallas 1st
White, Vucevic, Carter for Zion Williamson

These are not my suggestions, but I think I'd take any of the 3. Hardy is signed at $6 mill/yr for the next three years.

[Am2626]

Kuminga is fool’s gold. Empty calories. He’d put up big numbers with Giddey and our pace but it wouldn’t be winning ball. He’s more athlete than hooper.

Celts will only trade White if they can’t unload Jrue

I think the Bulls need to take a chance on Kuminga. It’s not the worst possible thing if the Bulls lose a lot of games next year. They need more talent and the draft is the best way to improve the roster.

Kuminga has lots of talent and is very young. He has a chance to be a star. Agreed he may not live up to his potential but the Bulls don’t have many options to improve.

Let’s says get Kuminga on a 3/60 deal for Vuc.

We are effectively paying two bench wings 38M per. Hes not staring over Buz and Bilkybalways plays 2 guards with Giddey.

His salary slot is a problem because of Pat’s dead weight salary.

Only way it works with Kuminga is if he blows up and becomes a positive asset. He would have to drastically develop his 3 ball.

Why can’t Kuminga and Matas both start as forwards? Kuminga is a 3 and Matas a 4. Why do you need to start 3 guards? Also Kuminga can play the 2.

[Infinity2152]

Huge plus for Kuminga is he's only 22. Plenty of time to shore up weaknesses and improve his shooting. He shot 34% from 3 and 37% his first two seasons, so it's reasonable he could get to NBA average (36%). Wouldn't worry about his offense as much as defense. Rebounding not quite as bad as I thought (6.8 per 36 last season), but defense numbers don't look great. Haven't seen him a lot, so have to rely on stats a lot with him. Maybe some here are just tired of so many offense first starters (Giddey, White, Lavine, Derozan, Vucevic). Saw a trade suggestion today for Vucevic, Ball and a top 5 protected first. More than I would give, but I'll admit if he develops, that would be a good deal for us (minus the pick).

Ball is not a throw in for me. He's our best or second-best defender, best or second-best passer, one of the best rebounders, highest BBall IQ, one of the best shooters and best floor leader. Plus adding him pushes Kuminga to $30 mill. Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

[boozapalooza]

From Rip City Project:

There's one nightmare scenario the Portland Trail Blazers must proactively avoid at all costs to fully maximize their return from the blockbuster Damian Lillard deal. If their protected first-round pick conveys to the Chicago Bulls in 2028, the Trail Blazers would lose the ability to use the Milwaukee Bucks' 2028 swap rights because, well, they'd have no pick to swap.

That would ruin a significant part of the Trail Blazers' Lillard trade. It's even more critical that they do everything they can to avoid this outcome now that Milwaukee's roster is hanging on by a thread. Any external additions like Kyle Kuzma were just band-aid solutions, but this Bucks roster is badly wounded and needs far more than that.

Blazers must make sure they can actually cash in on Bucks’ downfall

Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

Toumani Camara is pretty sick. Great wing defender with an evolving offensive game (11.5ppg/37.5% 3Pt last year). The cost for him is likely too high, but would love to see that happen.

If not, I like the idea here of moving off of PWill’s contract and taking an expiring in Ayton.

[Guy Rodgers fan]

Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

Infinity, you may be on to something. A sign and trade of Kuminga at about $28 mil/year works in a trade for Vuc with base year compensation rules. But not with Ayo. However, the Warriors have a $8.6 mil trade exception that would separately allow a trade for Ayo. I like Ayo but this could be a good value trade for both teams.

[sco]

Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

Infinity, you may be on to something. A sign and trade of Kuminga at about $28 mil/year works in a trade for Vuc with base year compensation rules. But not with Ayo. However, the Warriors have a $8.6 mil trade exception that would separately allow a trade for Ayo. I like Ayo but this could be a good value trade for both teams.

It's unclear what GS would do S&Twise but Kuminga needs to sign-up for the deal. IIRC, he turned down 5/$150 already...maybe he's facing a market reality test, but hard to imagine him signing up for less, assuming GS is willing to facilitate a deal to another team.

[Infinity2152]

Would strongly consider send Vuc, Ayo for Kuminga at around $26-$27 mill.

Infinity, you may be on to something. A sign and trade of Kuminga at about $28 mil/year works in a trade for Vuc with base year compensation rules. But not with Ayo. However, the Warriors have a $8.6 mil trade exception that would separately allow a trade for Ayo. I like Ayo but this could be a good value trade for both teams.

It's unclear what GS would do S&Twise but Kuminga needs to sign-up for the deal. IIRC, he turned down 5/$150 already...maybe he's facing a market reality test, but hard to imagine him signing up for less, assuming GS is willing to facilitate a deal to another team.

Didn't the exact same thing happen to Caleb Martin last year? Turned down 5yr/$65 mi extension and ended up setting a week later for 4yrs/$32 mill. Not all that uncommon that players overestimate their market value. Kuminga has no leverage, there's only one team with cap space enough to sign him outright. It's not just his actual market value, it's there are no teams able to pay him what he wants. If a team is giving up assets to get him, are they also going to want to pay him his maximum contract value at the same time? Be like signing him in free agency at full price, and giving up picks and players to do it.

Maybe the best thing is the Nets make a $30 mill offer to him day 1, and we get in on a three way. Kuminga to Nets, Vucevic/Carter to Warriors, pick assets or young player to us. We basically move Vucevic/Carter for cap space and pick(s). Not sure of the exact moves required to make that happen, but it should be possible.

[Chi town]

Infinity, you may be on to something. A sign and trade of Kuminga at about $28 mil/year works in a trade for Vuc with base year compensation rules. But not with Ayo. However, the Warriors have a $8.6 mil trade exception that would separately allow a trade for Ayo. I like Ayo but this could be a good value trade for both teams.

It's unclear what GS would do S&Twise but Kuminga needs to sign-up for the deal. IIRC, he turned down 5/$150 already...maybe he's facing a market reality test, but hard to imagine him signing up for less, assuming GS is willing to facilitate a deal to another team.

Didn't the exact same thing happen to Caleb Martin last year? Turned down 5yr/$65 mi extension and ended up setting a week later for 4yrs/$32 mill. Not all that uncommon that players overestimate their market value. Kuminga has no leverage, there's only one team with cap space enough to sign him outright. It's not just his actual market value, it's there are no teams able to pay him what he wants. If a team is giving up assets to get him, are they also going to want to pay him his maximum contract value at the same time? Be like signing him in free agency at full price, and giving up picks and players to do it.

Maybe the best thing is the Nets make a $30 mill offer to him day 1, and we get in on a three way. Kuminga to Nets, Vucevic/Carter to Warriors, pick assets or young player to us. We basically move Vucevic/Carter for cap space and pick(s). Not sure of the exact moves required to make that happen, but it should be possible.

Don’t think ST can be 3 way.

Lots of players have overplayed their hand. Dennis Shroeder says hello.

Kuminga should not be worth more than 20M. He missed lots of games last season.
- He’s not a winning player but could become one
- His 3 ball hurts spacing big time with Giddey and he needs Giddey to get him lobs and dunks
- His D is ok but should be much better. Same for rebounding
- Billy believes two guards and Giddey gives us more pace and space.

Nothing makes me believe Kuminga will become what he will paid to be.

[Chi town]

From Rip City Project:


Looks like that pick has suddenly become very important.

I wish Portland had more obviously available assets to make it interesting for us. Here's one idea:

Blazers Trade: DeAndre Ayton and the 11th Pick in the 2025 Draft
Bulls Trade: Patrick Williams, Zach Collins, the 12th (2025), Portland's Future 1st Round Pick

It gives them full control of their own pick back and clears the way for Clingan. They take on a meh contract, but two serviceable players (one they're familiar with) and only move down one spot in the draft.

Toumani Camara is pretty sick. Great wing defender with an evolving offensive game (11.5ppg/37.5% 3Pt last year). The cost for him is likely too high, but would love to see that happen.

If not, I like the idea here of moving off of PWill’s contract and taking an expiring in Ayton.

Camara on this team instead of Pat would make us a top 6 seed. That’s how darn good and versatile his D is.