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The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#221 » by Slim Charless » Wed May 21, 2025 10:05 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:Fischer reporting Suns are looking for a starting center. Any thoughts on who we should target?

It has to be via trade. I would love Nick Claxton, but his value could be pretty high.



Who is this Fischer dude?

Seems like PG should be the #1 priority


If we can pull off this KD for Podcast P and the #3 deal, there's a couple PGs available. GoK can fill you in but look at Kasparas Jakučionis or Egor Demin.

I wouldn't either at #3 but if we trade down to Utah's pick then they would be good picks
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#222 » by BobbieL » Wed May 21, 2025 10:06 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:Fischer reporting Suns are looking for a starting center. Any thoughts on who we should target?

It has to be via trade. I would love Nick Claxton, but his value could be pretty high.



Who is this Fischer dude?

Seems like PG should be the #1 priority


Agree. I see the PHNX_Suns guys talking about Center too but the Suns top priority is easily a PG.

The model for a team centered around Booker is a very good PG.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#223 » by bwgood77 » Wed May 21, 2025 10:19 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:Fischer reporting Suns are looking for a starting center. Any thoughts on who we should target?

It has to be via trade. I would love Nick Claxton, but his value could be pretty high.



Who is this Fischer dude?

Seems like PG should be the #1 priority


I don't know who I see us getting in trade. I don't want to make up a bunch of trades. But we do have the 29th pick.

Will Tyler Kolek turn it around? His shooting was solid when he was an upperclassmen, 40% then 39% from 3, 55% from 2. But he was awful shooting as a rookie (though barely played).

Tankathon has us projected to take Yaxel Lendeborg if he is there and I'd love to get him. He's a PF but could maybe play some C. Lots of strengths, few weaknesses.. https://tankathon.com/players/yaxel-lendeborg Strong Reb/Ast/Blk/Stl, 7'4 wingspan, 35.7% from 3

But if he is gone and we did go PG, would it be better to get one of these guys maybe in our range or to trade the pick for Kolek who is likely to get a lot better than he was as a rookie on a team with depth at PG (Brunson, Payne)? I probably like Walter Clayton Jr the best out of this year's group in that range.

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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#224 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 21, 2025 10:56 pm

thamadkant wrote:No one is going to take Beal.
And thats fine. He just needs to stay healthy, he is a professional and can be turned around... but step 1 is health.
Suns cant get rid of him without sending out more of the future and its not going to happen. Stretching him is stupid because Suns still doing have any assets to bring cheaper replacements and Suns wont have enough cap room. He is most likely staying and again, thats fine, because his value can only go up.

There's a pattern here though.... Booker is a player value killer. That is all I will say. A team that caters for Booker first, means the supporting star gets shafted and end up unhappy with no value. KD, worth Mikal, Cam and 7 firsts is now just lucky to get 2 firsts.... thats just sad. Thing is, KD is still the Suns best player. But the losing has devalued him....

I'd rather we try to rehab him and his value than just cut bait and get stuck with $20m in dead salary for another 4 years. IF we're able to rehab his value, he could very well be a moveable contract at the trade deadline and if not, at least next offseason he would be a expiring contract that represents almost 34% of the salary cap and might have real value to another team if not us.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#225 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 21, 2025 10:59 pm

King4Day wrote:
Puff wrote:I expect the big three to be together on opening night. I expect whichever coach that comes up with a plan to make it work will be our new head coach. Not sure about Beal but Vogel won 49 games with him alongside Book.

I am just hoping that we get a couple of guys in the draft that are fun to watch as well as free agent PF and or PG that was not on last years roster.

It was nice to see Nick Richards at the Mercury's opening night game.

We need some team unity building this summer similar to Kyler Muray's softball game this past weekend. We used to have that prior to KD. Miss those days.


I will comfortably not watch next season (I'll scoreboard watch) if the big 3 return.
I also believe season ticket sales will plummet and, if we have any 'sold out' streak...well, that will end too

I'm probably not going to renew league pass this upcoming season. Unless we make some big moves to at least make the team somewhat enjoyable to watch even if it's worse
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#226 » by lilfishi22 » Wed May 21, 2025 11:12 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


If Beal was willing to accept this trade, would you guys do this knowing that yes, you'd take the hit next season to have Lillard in 27??

I would do it. I get a strong impression that we just don't want Beal on the team anymore and that's why there's all the talk about waive/stretching, neither of which are particularly intriguing to me. So if the idea is just to move on from Beal and we don't want to package him with other assets to try and move him, then you're stuck with buying him out and stretching.

This accomplishes three things

1. We get to move on from Beal with no long term salary cap implications (ie no dead money)
2. We actually get some value back in those draft picks
3. I think Dame adds value to the locker room with his experience, leadership and I think he has a lot of respect around the league.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#227 » by BobbieL » Wed May 21, 2025 11:28 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
thamadkant wrote:No one is going to take Beal.
And thats fine. He just needs to stay healthy, he is a professional and can be turned around... but step 1 is health.
Suns cant get rid of him without sending out more of the future and its not going to happen. Stretching him is stupid because Suns still doing have any assets to bring cheaper replacements and Suns wont have enough cap room. He is most likely staying and again, thats fine, because his value can only go up.

There's a pattern here though.... Booker is a player value killer. That is all I will say. A team that caters for Booker first, means the supporting star gets shafted and end up unhappy with no value. KD, worth Mikal, Cam and 7 firsts is now just lucky to get 2 firsts.... thats just sad. Thing is, KD is still the Suns best player. But the losing has devalued him....

I'd rather we try to rehab him and his value than just cut bait and get stuck with $20m in dead salary for another 4 years. IF we're able to rehab his value, he could very well be a moveable contract at the trade deadline and if not, at least next offseason he would be a expiring contract that represents almost 34% of the salary cap and might have real value to another team if not us.


I think this is the most sensible plan. Or just buying him out - if he would accept $95m over two years and get the big expiring
I think the value of player(s) you can get if you are able to use him as a large expiring along with maybe moving Allen &/or O'neale for other expirings by 2027 is more than just getting the MLE.

But I think a big reason Mat wants to buy him out and stretch him - is money. I think he saves a lot of money
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#228 » by Puff » Wed May 21, 2025 11:35 pm

Blonde wrote:They need to do the easy, and uncontroversial thing and fire Josh Bartelstein. He’s effectively been a terrorist to this organization since he arrived. I don’t want this guy anywhere near basketball operations or anywhere else in the organization. Do the right thing Mat.


I have suggested this numerous times and that was prior to knowing that he was porking Cunningham.

He is the main reason we are stuck with Beal and everyone seems to think the best move is to move on from two productive players.

We could have added some good complimentary players without Beal's NTC contract. Quite possibly the dumbest move in Suns history and Josh has remained on staff.

Whisbia fired Monty because he could not get along with Ayton. Then he traded Ayton for Nurkic. Then he traded Nurkic. Now we have no center worth a crap. He also traded the only PG we have had since Steve Nash for Bradley freaking Beal.

How any of you geniuses can say that Book and KD are the biggest problems, wake up.

The 2 major problems with this team are the front office and Bradley Beal's contract.
      "Oh I wish the days of Monty and CP3, or the days of Mike and Steve Nash were here instead of this mess. Ish please go away! .:crazy:
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#229 » by TeamTragic » Wed May 21, 2025 11:39 pm

Puff wrote:
Blonde wrote:They need to do the easy, and uncontroversial thing and fire Josh Bartelstein. He’s effectively been a terrorist to this organization since he arrived. I don’t want this guy anywhere near basketball operations or anywhere else in the organization. Do the right thing Mat.


I have suggested this numerous times and that was prior to knowing that he was porking Cunningham.

He is the main reason we are stuck with Beal and everyone seems to think the best move is to move on from two productive players.

Who could we have added without Beal's NTC contract. Quite possibly the dumbest move in Suns history and Josh has remained on staff.

Whisbia fired Monty because he could not get along with Ayton. Then he traded Ayton for Nurkic. Then he traded Nurkic. Now we have no center worth a crap. He also traded the only PG we have had since Steve Nash for Bradley freaking Beal.

How any of you geniuses can say that Book and KD are the biggest problems, wake up.

The 2 major problems with this team are the front office and Bradley Beal's contract.


Now we are looking for a starting center AGAIN. I don't care about his personal life but Bart should be fired for that Ayton trade.

Beal was a dumb panic move. Ayton trade made everything that much worse.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#230 » by BobbieL » Wed May 21, 2025 11:51 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:
Read on Twitter


If Beal was willing to accept this trade, would you guys do this knowing that yes, you'd take the hit next season to have Lillard in 27??

I would do it. I get a strong impression that we just don't want Beal on the team anymore and that's why there's all the talk about waive/stretching, neither of which are particularly intriguing to me. So if the idea is just to move on from Beal and we don't want to package him with other assets to try and move him, then you're stuck with buying him out and stretching.

This accomplishes three things

1. We get to move on from Beal with no long term salary cap implications (ie no dead money)
2. We actually get some value back in those draft picks
3. I think Dame adds value to the locker room with his experience, leadership and I think he has a lot of respect around the league.


He would be a huge expiring in 2027 like Beal and you get a FRP out of it...
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#231 » by KdoubleDees23 » Wed May 21, 2025 11:55 pm

Slim Charless wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:It has to be via trade. I would love Nick Claxton, but his value could be pretty high.



Who is this Fischer dude?

Seems like PG should be the #1 priority


If we can pull off this KD for Podcast P and the #3 deal, there's a couple PGs available. GoK can fill you in but look at Kasparas Jakučionis or Egor Demin.

I wouldn't either at #3 but if we trade down to Utah's pick then they would be good picks


If we are #3 we are taking Ace Bailey or Edgecomb
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#232 » by Slim Charless » Thu May 22, 2025 12:03 am

TeamTragic wrote:
Puff wrote:
Blonde wrote:They need to do the easy, and uncontroversial thing and fire Josh Bartelstein. He’s effectively been a terrorist to this organization since he arrived. I don’t want this guy anywhere near basketball operations or anywhere else in the organization. Do the right thing Mat.


I have suggested this numerous times and that was prior to knowing that he was porking Cunningham.

He is the main reason we are stuck with Beal and everyone seems to think the best move is to move on from two productive players.

Who could we have added without Beal's NTC contract. Quite possibly the dumbest move in Suns history and Josh has remained on staff.

Whisbia fired Monty because he could not get along with Ayton. Then he traded Ayton for Nurkic. Then he traded Nurkic. Now we have no center worth a crap. He also traded the only PG we have had since Steve Nash for Bradley freaking Beal.

How any of you geniuses can say that Book and KD are the biggest problems, wake up.

The 2 major problems with this team are the front office and Bradley Beal's contract.


Now we are looking for a starting center AGAIN. I don't care about his personal life but Bart should be fired for that Ayton trade.

Beal was a dumb panic move. Ayton trade made everything that much worse.


That's a lot of revisionist history on the Ayton trade. Sooo many guys on here were loving it when it happened.

I hated the trade then and said so. I was 1 of the few that spoke up during and after that dumb trade.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#233 » by bwgood77 » Thu May 22, 2025 12:53 am

BobbieL wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
Saberestar wrote:It has to be via trade. I would love Nick Claxton, but his value could be pretty high.



Who is this Fischer dude?

Seems like PG should be the #1 priority


Agree. I see the PHNX_Suns guys talking about Center too but the Suns top priority is easily a PG.

The model for a team centered around Booker is a very good PG.


Only if the guy is defensive. I think starting Tyus Jones kind of hurt us given all the other playmaking we had on the floor. Booker is going to be the de facto PG regardless at this point, given his improved playmaking. When you have Jones, the best ast/to guy in the league and Booker still ends up being the main PG all year, I don't see a huge case for PG when our biggest need is size and defense.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#234 » by Ghost of Kleine » Thu May 22, 2025 1:22 am

Read on Twitter


Earlier today, so sorry for the late posting. Jake Fischer put out a report talking about how they're inclined to run things back and keep the 3rd pick whilst running things back and seeing if George can recoup some value while another year drops off his contract.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#235 » by bullsaficianado » Thu May 22, 2025 1:39 am

You know Beal sucks when you are willing to trade him for a guy that won't even play next season.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#236 » by thamadkant » Thu May 22, 2025 2:16 am

ChuckS wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
Puff wrote:I expect the big three to be together on opening night. I expect whichever coach that comes up with a plan to make it work will be our new head coach. Not sure about Beal but Vogel won 49 games with him alongside Book.

I am just hoping that we get a couple of guys in the draft that are fun to watch as well as free agent PF and or PG that was not on last years roster.

It was nice to see Nick Richards at the Mercury's opening night game.

We need some team unity building this summer similar to Kyler Muray's softball game this past weekend. We used to have that prior to KD. Miss those days.


I just don't see it with Booker, Beal and Durant. It hasn't worked And since the organization won't get move on from Booker, they have to trade Durant - -that is if they want to start winning and moving forward

Booker and Durant together I just don't think are the right players next to each other. Need to complement each other and they don't which is the point you made. Before Durant, this was a team. KD was not good for Booker


A few herein seem to believe that KD is some Svengali who has somehow corrupted or manipulated the otherwise intelligent and competent Booker. But Books' last seven years have been remarkably consistent, with his two best scoring years since KD's arrival. I can't attribute his highest season scoring year to KD who played only 8 regular season games with the team in 22/23. But the playoff loss to Denver was another matter. KD, to me, was still not acclimated, but averaged 29 points per to outperform Murray. Devin, on the other hand was awesome. He had the best of his four playoff performances, averaging 33.7PPG @58.5/50.8/86.6% to offset Jokic. We lost, but not because of our two best players doing their jobs by outscoring theirs. The next year with KD the Suns were swept by the larger/better team but Booker averaged 27.5PPG @49.2/35.1/95.1. His in season average was his second highest at 27.1 per. (KD equaled that in season number, was an all star, and 2d team NBA, Book NBA3d.)

It's common to remember the most recent happening. This year was Book's lowest with KD at 25.6, with his 2d worst 3pt%. But the difference wasn't Durant, but a new coach with an emphasis on shooting threes, and also the necessity for Book to oftentimes play the one. I think the two are very compatible, and have balanced their talents to excellently co-exist.


Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#237 » by Fo-Real » Thu May 22, 2025 2:21 am

bullsaficianado wrote:You know Beal sucks when you are willing to trade him for a guy that won't even play next season.


Our roster building and roles suck. Beal sucks for how high paid he is BUT he has averaged 17 pts, 4 boards and 3 assists in a flawed situation. Brad can be useful but won't ever approach 50 mil a year production. He can still ball a bit more than he has been allowed.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#238 » by ChuckS » Thu May 22, 2025 4:58 am

thamadkant wrote:
ChuckS wrote:
BobbieL wrote:
I just don't see it with Booker, Beal and Durant. It hasn't worked And since the organization won't get move on from Booker, they have to trade Durant - -that is if they want to start winning and moving forward

Booker and Durant together I just don't think are the right players next to each other. Need to complement each other and they don't which is the point you made. Before Durant, this was a team. KD was not good for Booker


A few herein seem to believe that KD is some Svengali who has somehow corrupted or manipulated the otherwise intelligent and competent Booker. But Books' last seven years have been remarkably consistent, with his two best scoring years since KD's arrival. I can't attribute his highest season scoring year to KD who played only 8 regular season games with the team in 22/23. But the playoff loss to Denver was another matter. KD, to me, was still not acclimated, but averaged 29 points per to outperform Murray. Devin, on the other hand was awesome. He had the best of his four playoff performances, averaging 33.7PPG @58.5/50.8/86.6% to offset Jokic. We lost, but not because of our two best players doing their jobs by outscoring theirs. The next year with KD the Suns were swept by the larger/better team but Booker averaged 27.5PPG @49.2/35.1/95.1. His in season average was his second highest at 27.1 per. (KD equaled that in season number, was an all star, and 2d team NBA, Book NBA3d.)

It's common to remember the most recent happening. This year was Book's lowest with KD at 25.6, with his 2d worst 3pt%. But the difference wasn't Durant, but a new coach with an emphasis on shooting threes, and also the necessity for Book to oftentimes play the one. I think the two are very compatible, and have balanced their talents to excellently co-exist.


Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.


Kevin Durant played only eight regular season games, so his in season affect on anyone was minimal. Ayton averaged 18 points per and CP3 13.9.

In the playoffs is when Ayton went from 18 points and 10 boards to 13.4 PPG and 5 rebounds, on 2 less shots per (13.2 to 11.1). I remain convinced that his problem was Jokic, who averaged 34.5 points and 13.2 rebounds, not Devin or KD.

Chris Paul was less affected. He only dropped from 13.9 to 12.4, but with 2 more shots per. But he, too, had his hands full with Murray who went from 20 in season to 26.1.

I think it is consistent, but beyond disingenuous, to fault the the team's only two great performances -- Books' 33.7 PPG and KD's 29 per. I believe the real world, as do most Suns' fans, know who are the best players.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#239 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 22, 2025 5:29 am

ChuckS wrote:
thamadkant wrote:
ChuckS wrote:
A few herein seem to believe that KD is some Svengali who has somehow corrupted or manipulated the otherwise intelligent and competent Booker. But Books' last seven years have been remarkably consistent, with his two best scoring years since KD's arrival. I can't attribute his highest season scoring year to KD who played only 8 regular season games with the team in 22/23. But the playoff loss to Denver was another matter. KD, to me, was still not acclimated, but averaged 29 points per to outperform Murray. Devin, on the other hand was awesome. He had the best of his four playoff performances, averaging 33.7PPG @58.5/50.8/86.6% to offset Jokic. We lost, but not because of our two best players doing their jobs by outscoring theirs. The next year with KD the Suns were swept by the larger/better team but Booker averaged 27.5PPG @49.2/35.1/95.1. His in season average was his second highest at 27.1 per. (KD equaled that in season number, was an all star, and 2d team NBA, Book NBA3d.)

It's common to remember the most recent happening. This year was Book's lowest with KD at 25.6, with his 2d worst 3pt%. But the difference wasn't Durant, but a new coach with an emphasis on shooting threes, and also the necessity for Book to oftentimes play the one. I think the two are very compatible, and have balanced their talents to excellently co-exist.


Troy Brown from Nuggets said it best when they defeated Suns... he described the suns as not a good team. KD and Booker played a two man game team be damned. Ayton averaged 13fga before KD which was already low and his fga went down to 7fga... look it up. His averages as well as CP3'S drastically went down post KD.


Kevin Durant played only eight regular season games, so his in season affect on anyone was minimal. Ayton averaged 18 points per and CP3 13.9.

In the playoffs is when Ayton went from 18 points and 10 boards to 13.4 PPG and 5 rebounds, on 2 less shots per (13.2 to 11.1). I remain convinced that his problem was Jokic, who averaged 34.5 points and 13.2 rebounds, not Devin or KD.

Chris Paul was less affected. He only dropped from 13.9 to 12.4, but with 2 more shots per. But he, too, had his hands full with Murray who went from 20 in season to 26.1.

I think it is consistent, but beyond disingenuous, to fault the the team's only two great performances -- Books' 33.7 PPG and KD's 29 per. I believe the real world, as do most Suns' fans, know who are the best players.

Honestly, that roster was dog doo-doo after the KD trade. Our 3rd leader in FGA was not DA, it was no CP3, it was Cam Payne. That was the depth of shot creation we had on that team. DA wasn't going to create shots for you, god knows neither is T.Ross, Shamet nor TJ. It was Book and KD with Payne being that 3rd guy. CP3 doing his best to set everyone else up.

At the end of the day, that team relied so much on two guys because they were the only two guys who were effective in creating offense. The fact that the series even went 6 games was because those two gave us a twin 36pt performance in one win and 47pts/39pts in the other win.
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Re: The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2 

Post#240 » by lilfishi22 » Thu May 22, 2025 5:58 am

Celtics May Have To Attach Draft Pick To Trade Jrue Holiday

Jrue Holiday is a trade candidate this offseason as the Boston Celtics look to shed salary and reset their roster ahead of Jayson Tatum's probable return from Achilles surgery in 26-27. Holiday is owed $104 million over the next three seasons and multiple rival executives have asserted that the Celtics may need to attach some form of draft compensation to trade him.

Holiday, who is represented by Jason Glushon, averaged 11.1 points, 4.3 rebounds and 3.9 assists 30.6 minutes over 62 games this past season at the age of 34.

The Celtics could fill Holiday's vacated minutes with some combination of Payton Pritchard and Baylor Scheierman.

After the Celtics were eliminated from the playoffs, Holiday said his preference is to remain with the franchise.

I would love to be able to do some sort of Beal for Jrue swap but both teams are so deep in the 2nd apron, it's not really feasible.

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