The Ace Bailey Thread

[Snidely FC]

Jonathan Givony’s take on Ace’s maturity:

Givony shot down the skepticism. “Absolutely not. I love Ace Bailey,” Givony said, even after acknowledging valid questions about Bailey’s track record. Givony stressed Bailey’s maturity, competitiveness and game-changing potential: “He’s 18 years old, doesn’t turn 19 until August. … I firmly believe Ace Bailey is going to be a star in the NBA.”

Givony urges Bailey: “I’m 100% drafting him third.”

[JMAC3]

Ace Bailey shot 46% from midrange- which is 75th percentile in the NBA- way above league average and people act like that is biggest reason to not draft him. It makes no sense.

Steph 47.6%
Cade 47.7%
Garland 47.5%
Murray 46.4%
Donovan Mitchell 46%
Dame 47%
Tatum 41%
Kyrie 44%
Jimmy 37%
Reaves 45%
Maxey 45%

Imagine watching any of these guys shoot a midrange in the league and immediately thinking wow terrible shot what a losing player. Yet here we are with Ace.

[fatlever]

If MJ, Kobe, Anthony Edwards interview from the combine from the past was brought up now saying the same things it would be called Alpha, Killer Mentality, Confident...

Ace Bailey does it and it's immature.

You are lying to yourself if you don't think 18 yr old Kobe had the same mentality.

I would say the difference is that while Kobe had the mentality that he was always the best player on the floor he was always incredibly mature for his age. I mean he was someone that was very composed even at 18 having spent his entire life around professional athletes and also growing up in Italy tends to have that type of impact.

And that's great when you are in fact the best player on the floor. But as we saw with Kai Jones it's a **** nightmare when you're not the best player on the floor and you think you are. Now I know that Kai is an An extreme example of when confidence can ruin your career, just Pointing out that having confidence in your ability can go both ways. And I think there's a difference between confidence and irrational confidence. Thinking you can make every shot you take versus understanding what is a good shot and a bad shot and potentially passing out of a shot to a teammate that might have a better shot.

These are the things that scouts are trying to figure out with ace. Does he have confidence or irrational confidence. Are his abysmal assist numbers and the fact that he took so many tough shots because his teammates were **** awful or is because he's a selfish player? If it's the latter do you feel confident that this is something you can coach out of him in the next few years. I mean these are the only things keeping him from being absolutely locked in at number three.

You think Kobe was a better prospect as the 13th pick in the draft than Ace Bailey, the #2 ranked high school prospect and projected #3 pick?
Ace Bailey was the #2 ranked player in the nation, up to this point in his life he has been the best player on the floor.

Kai Jones was a sophomore who averaged under 9 ppg and was the 50th ranked recruit in the country- you think Ace is closer to Kai as an example then he is currently to Kobe Bryant?

Anthony Edwards shot 37-122 (30%) from midrange in college and 69-237 (29.1%) from three in college on a 16-16 team. Do you think his career goes better if he would have looked at that and said, I clearly am not a very good shooter and should lower my confidence as a basketball player?

Ace Bailey shot 46% from midrange on 200 shots and 35% from three on 136 threes.

did i say that?

kobe vs ace as prospects? different era. different world. not the conversation.

i literally said kai was "extreme" example of irrational confidence impacting a career negatively. never compared them as prospects. you only see what you want in my responses, like aways.

Do you think I'm the only one Bringing up these concerns about ace as a prospect? I am literally regurgitating stuff I hear/read both pro and con for every one of these prospects. So when I say here are the concerns people are talking about regarding ace, and here is why that might impact his draft position or his ability to reach his peak, does not necessarily mean that I am supporting that particular opinion. I get that ace is your dude and you want to go to bat for him which is fine. But don't spin this as if I'm over here making up crazy negative concerns about ace when these are literally all over the place from draft scouts as to what their concerns of him as a player might be. I don't know why anyone would be taking this personal when we are literally just discussing best and worst case scenarios for each of these guys. What are the red flags for all of these prospects? And what are there realistic outcomes as a player if we draft them..

[Rich4114]

Why are we cherry picking certain words and building narratives around them? Like the Ace concerns are clearly valid. Whether they'll end up causing him to be a whiff or not, nobody knows. It certainly is worth at least discussing and sharing opinions though, no?

[fatlever]

Jonathan Givony’s take on Ace’s maturity:

Givony shot down the skepticism. “Absolutely not. I love Ace Bailey,” Givony said, even after acknowledging valid questions about Bailey’s track record. Givony stressed Bailey’s maturity, competitiveness and game-changing potential: “He’s 18 years old, doesn’t turn 19 until August. … I firmly believe Ace Bailey is going to be a star in the NBA.”

Givony urges Bailey: “I’m 100% drafting him third.”

yup... As I said polarizing. jon g Has been a huge supporter of the ace throughout the process. And I trust his opinion more than most analysts. But there are certainly other draft analysts that have concerns and have voiced such.

And there can be all of these concerns in the world and it still doesn't matter at the end of the day and he goes number three because he's by far the best prospect.

I mean let's be clear vj has some pretty huge holes in his game as does Tre and certainly the concerns over kon have been widely discussed.
Difference between the four prospects is that the major concerns regarding ace other than him measuring out smaller than anticipated have to do with his style of play And potential selfishness as a player. vj... The concerns are can you shoot and can you dribble with his left hand and why are his finishing numbers so terrible. tre... Can he play defense? kon, How much will his lack of athleticism hurt him at the next level.

Ace has by far more God given ability than all of these dudes. if He puts it all together his ceiling is certainly the highest of the bunch.

[JMAC3]

I would say the difference is that while Kobe had the mentality that he was always the best player on the floor he was always incredibly mature for his age. I mean he was someone that was very composed even at 18 having spent his entire life around professional athletes and also growing up in Italy tends to have that type of impact.

And that's great when you are in fact the best player on the floor. But as we saw with Kai Jones it's a **** nightmare when you're not the best player on the floor and you think you are. Now I know that Kai is an An extreme example of when confidence can ruin your career, just Pointing out that having confidence in your ability can go both ways. And I think there's a difference between confidence and irrational confidence. Thinking you can make every shot you take versus understanding what is a good shot and a bad shot and potentially passing out of a shot to a teammate that might have a better shot.

These are the things that scouts are trying to figure out with ace. Does he have confidence or irrational confidence. Are his abysmal assist numbers and the fact that he took so many tough shots because his teammates were **** awful or is because he's a selfish player? If it's the latter do you feel confident that this is something you can coach out of him in the next few years. I mean these are the only things keeping him from being absolutely locked in at number three.

You think Kobe was a better prospect as the 13th pick in the draft than Ace Bailey, the #2 ranked high school prospect and projected #3 pick?
Ace Bailey was the #2 ranked player in the nation, up to this point in his life he has been the best player on the floor.

Kai Jones was a sophomore who averaged under 9 ppg and was the 50th ranked recruit in the country- you think Ace is closer to Kai as an example then he is currently to Kobe Bryant?

Anthony Edwards shot 37-122 (30%) from midrange in college and 69-237 (29.1%) from three in college on a 16-16 team. Do you think his career goes better if he would have looked at that and said, I clearly am not a very good shooter and should lower my confidence as a basketball player?

Ace Bailey shot 46% from midrange on 200 shots and 35% from three on 136 threes.

did i say that?

kobe vs ace as prospects? different era. different world. not the conversation.

i literally said kai was "extreme" example of irrational confidence impacting a career negatively. never compared them as prospects. you only see what you want in my responses, like aways.

Do you think I'm the only one Bringing up these concerns about ace as a prospect? I am literally regurgitating stuff I hear/read both pro and con for every one of these prospects. So when I say here are the concerns people are talking about regarding ace, and here is why that might impact his draft position or his ability to reach his peak, does not necessarily mean that I am supporting that particular opinion. I get that ace is your dude and you want to go to bat for him which is fine. But don't spin this as if I'm over here making up crazy negative concerns about ace when these are literally all over the place from draft scouts as to what their concerns of him as a player might be. I don't know why anyone would be taking this personal when we are literally just discussing best and worst case scenarios for each of these guys. What are the red flags for all of these prospects? And what are there realistic outcomes as a player if we draft them..

Ace = same level of prospect as Ant and Kobe why is his confidence irrational but theirs was okay? Yeah if Ace Bailey was a 2nd round pick and averaged 8 ppg in college and said he was the next KD sure I would have issues. I don't have any issues with the #2 ranked high schooler in the country thinking he should be a NBA superstar in the league after averaging 17+ ppg as a freshman.

You act like you post 100% unbiased but it is very easy to tell which players you like and don't like in your posts.

[JDR720]

My concern about his immaturity is that we have a team full of immature players. Our veteran "leader" of the core (Miles) has more baby mamma drama than your average episode of Maury. Our best player (Melo) is a dummy.

Miller and TJ are more mature, so is Mark. But TJ obviously is a project, Mark may end up traded, and Miller isn't old enough to lead anything yet.

[JMAC3]

My concern about his immaturity is that we have a team full of immature players. Our veteran "leader" of the core (Miles) has more baby mamma drama than your average episode of Maury. Our best player (Melo) is a dummy.

Miller and TJ are more mature, so is Mark. But TJ obviously is a project, Mark may end up traded, and Miller isn't old enough to lead anything yet.

If Miller is too young to be the leader, then I really don't value whether I pick someone this year based on maturity level. If Hornets are worried about that they need to use some of their picks to trade for a 26 yr old that can play 30+ minutes per night that can be the leader. Not a 38 yr old Taj Gibson who is the 14th man, not a 20 yr old rookie who is going to be the 4th best player on the team next year.

Also, Kemba was a great leader and I don't think that had any type of positive development effects on our rookie selections in his era MKG, Biz, Zeller, Monk, Frank... did any of those guys benefit as a player long term because we had Kemba in place as opposed to LaMelo?

[fatlever]

You think Kobe was a better prospect as the 13th pick in the draft than Ace Bailey, the #2 ranked high school prospect and projected #3 pick?
Ace Bailey was the #2 ranked player in the nation, up to this point in his life he has been the best player on the floor.

Kai Jones was a sophomore who averaged under 9 ppg and was the 50th ranked recruit in the country- you think Ace is closer to Kai as an example then he is currently to Kobe Bryant?

Anthony Edwards shot 37-122 (30%) from midrange in college and 69-237 (29.1%) from three in college on a 16-16 team. Do you think his career goes better if he would have looked at that and said, I clearly am not a very good shooter and should lower my confidence as a basketball player?

Ace Bailey shot 46% from midrange on 200 shots and 35% from three on 136 threes.

did i say that?

kobe vs ace as prospects? different era. different world. not the conversation.

i literally said kai was "extreme" example of irrational confidence impacting a career negatively. never compared them as prospects. you only see what you want in my responses, like aways.

Do you think I'm the only one Bringing up these concerns about ace as a prospect? I am literally regurgitating stuff I hear/read both pro and con for every one of these prospects. So when I say here are the concerns people are talking about regarding ace, and here is why that might impact his draft position or his ability to reach his peak, does not necessarily mean that I am supporting that particular opinion. I get that ace is your dude and you want to go to bat for him which is fine. But don't spin this as if I'm over here making up crazy negative concerns about ace when these are literally all over the place from draft scouts as to what their concerns of him as a player might be. I don't know why anyone would be taking this personal when we are literally just discussing best and worst case scenarios for each of these guys. What are the red flags for all of these prospects? And what are there realistic outcomes as a player if we draft them..

Ace = same level of prospect as Ant and Kobe why is his confidence irrational but theirs was okay? Yeah if Ace Bailey was a 2nd round pick and averaged 8 ppg in college and said he was the next KD sure I would have issues. I don't have any issues with the #2 ranked high schooler in the country thinking he should be a NBA superstar in the league after averaging 17+ ppg as a freshman.

You act like you post 100% unbiased but it is very easy to tell which players you like and don't like in your posts.

I'll admit I have biases. We all do. And I do not like selfish basketball players. Never have, never will. I don't know if Ace is actually selfish or just an unfair stigma he can't shake.

Fwiw... Right now I'm
Vj
Ace
Tre
Kon

Same as I posted last week. Nothing has changed that yet. Vj still scares me if he can't improve handle and finishing.

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[JustBuzzin]

Miller is also a pretty goofy personality. When he steps on the court he's anything but goofy.

I see a similar prospect with Ace. If we have a chance to pair these 2 wings we potentially have our Tatum/Brown wing duo for the next 10 years.

I'm more impressed with his on ball defense then his scoring tbh. He is a really good on ball defender. I think he has potential as a defensive wing.

Then you have the Melo factor, I can see him pushing the team to draft another Miller clone on the wing.

[yosemiteben]

You act like you post 100% unbiased but it is very easy to tell which players you like and don't like in your posts.

Kind of like comparing Kon and Kispert as prospects by comparing Kon's freshman stats to Kispert's senior ones, but not mentioning that in the statistical comparison?

Diverse opinions are welcome and encouraged, but this is very much a pot calling the kettle black comment IMO.

[yosemiteben]

Did fat just set the record for the longest post on the forum?

Might've topped the Mark Williams novel I wrote.

[fatlever]

Did fat just set the record for the longest post on the forum?

Might've topped the Mark Williams novel I wrote.

I get carried away with voice to text. Lol.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[Diop]

Why are we cherry picking certain words and building narratives around them? Like the Ace concerns are clearly valid. Whether they'll end up causing him to be a whiff or not, nobody knows. It certainly is worth at least discussing and sharing opinions though, no?

we all want the best option at 4 and some of us are struggling to decide. reports come from an event which is designed to evaluate prospects that question someone's maturity/mentality, of course we should discuss it and share opinions.

ace is still definitely an intriguing prospect.

[Bassman]

I totally understand Fat’s post; he is citing some NBA sources for concerns SOME had with Ace’s interviews. That’s legit. Whether someone here is in agreement or offended by that, take it up with the scouts/analysts.

I also get being wary of drafting another knucklehead.

For those who say interviews and background checks don’t matter…come on! This is standard operating procedure in the NBA. Some teams do it much better than others, which is how the Hornets got down into this freaking pit in the first place. BAD DECISIONS.

Peterson took a huge gamble last year cause he wanted to reset the culture. Not sure Tiddy was really inspiring anyone to work harder. Leadership comes by example but also by being the best. I have no clue how their interview and review of Ace will go, but anyone wanting to guess who this team will pick needs to think like they do. If Ace comes off arrogant, selfish, or trips any wires outside the “culture”, they may go a different direction.

For me it’s still Ace, VJ then Tre. Once workout reports and other info filters out, could change. It probably will also for the teams picking from 3 down.

[Liver_Pooty]

I can’t name my mind up on the kid. As long as we don’t draft hung yang I’m okay with VJ Ace or Trey with Kon as a sleeper.

[JustBuzzin]

https://youtu.be/YW_SQOtaAF8?si=D0vCNtEc-JNlgt_a

1:20 he gives you signs of potential with his ball handling skills.

Sorry, but this kid is a legit scorer on the next level. Pair him with Miller on the wings and we go from there.

[wilson115]

I totally understand Fat’s post; he is citing some NBA sources for concerns SOME had with Ace’s interviews. That’s legit. Whether someone here is in agreement or offended by that, take it up with the scouts/analysts.

I also get being wary of drafting another knucklehead.

For those who say interviews and background checks don’t matter…come on! This is standard operating procedure in the NBA. Some teams do it much better than others, which is how the Hornets got down into this freaking pit in the first place. BAD DECISIONS.

Peterson took a huge gamble last year cause he wanted to reset the culture. Not sure Tiddy was really inspiring anyone to work harder. Leadership comes by example but also by being the best. I have no clue how their interview and review of Ace will go, but anyone wanting to guess who this team will pick needs to think like they do. If Ace comes off arrogant, selfish, or trips any wires outside the “culture”, they may go a different direction.

For me it’s still Ace, VJ then Tre. Once workout reports and other info filters out, could change. It probably will also for the teams picking from 3 down.

I clearly remember Anthony Edwards getting labeled a dumb*** and a bust waiting to happen after they had him go through interviews pre-draft. Hoping this FO isn't dumb enough to let this sort of **** sway them over things like on-court stats and actually looking at the tape. For my part, I'm more inclined to call Ace's love of 21.99999-foot 2-point jumpers a skill issue (needs to work on his on-ball skills so he doesn't get shut down 21.99999 feet from the hoop) more than a character one.

[JMAC3]

You act like you post 100% unbiased but it is very easy to tell which players you like and don't like in your posts.

Kind of like comparing Kon and Kispert as prospects by comparing Kon's freshman stats to Kispert's senior ones, but not mentioning that in the statistical comparison?

Diverse opinions are welcome and encouraged, but this is very much a pot calling the kettle black comment IMO.

Is it? I feel like I am pretty straight forward about who I like and don't like. I have Kon 11th on my board, I don't want Kon at all.... I don't think I am trying to act like I like Kon....

What I said about Fats, is he tries to make it seem like he is just posting neutral about these players but it is very obvious who he actually likes and dislikes.

IF I had Kon "4th" on my board and said nothing but negative stuff then that would be the kettle black moment, not whatever comparison you just tried to make.

[Emhoward]

Confidence is needed on the court, maybe even arrogance, delusion however is a red flag. But it's a thin line between the two. And how can you determine where an 18 year old lands on that spectrum? People aren't easy to know, least of all 18 year olds who hardly know themselves yet.

I say all that to say that player evaulation isn't easy. Which we all knew.