Describing SGA as a foul merchant seems extremely disingenuous.

[Lo Wang]

Lo Wang, you just sent the mods a PM about how you can't wait to come back to the GB and have amazing high quality discussions, and so far you've trolled one poster with a line about Jeremy Lin and now you are baiting another poster with a line about big boy pants.

The ball is in your court as far as avoiding another strike.

How is telling the coach of the Twolves a personal insult? If he wants to stay in the series, he needs to toughen up and focus on his team instead of making up excuses.

Unless he really is Jeremy Lin, how is that a personal attack?

I didn't say anything about a personal attack. I warned you for trolling and baiting.

If you are still not getting what the problem is, it's kinda your problem at this point.

I'm just having a discussion bro. If you guys are this strict and rigid, I don't care. Do what you got to do.

[Patches Perry]

First, the foul was not called at the point of your screenshot. It was called once Ant was even with him and SGA initiated contact into him when Ant was in a legit defensive position.

Could it be called a foul? Yes, but it shouldn't be called as often as it is for players like SGA and Butler. That's kind of what my point is. Marginal contact like this happens on nearly every drive. But players like SGA and Butler get the calls for it more than others.

He was definitely not even with him when they called the foul, he was even further behind than my first screenshot. I used that screenshot to show the point where Ant was no longer in legal position to make contact, but here is the point of the foul. Ant is to the side or almost behind SGA, well out of position.

You keep posting screenshots before the foul was called.

And besides, if you truly wanted it called by the book like you are advocating for here, then the physical OKC defenders would be called for fouls on nearly every drive by an opponent.

There is no point after the screenshots I posted where Ant is even with SGA. He only gets further behind. Go back and watched frame by frame.

If you watch OKC defenders, they are usually very active and physical when in position, but very hands off once out of position. Wallace is very good at this. He prioritizes sprinting back into position rather than trying to guide or nudge guys while behind behind/out of position.

[Quattro]

People have to hate. You know you made it in this league when realgm boils your entire game down to one thing to denigrate.

[sashaturiaf]

since the defense can’t really be physical with the offense

Unless if you wear a thunder jersey especially if your name is Caruso

[Tim_Hardawayy]

As a Heat fan I have rooted for guys known as foul merchants in the past (Wade, Butler). What I'll say is, to me, there's three ways to draw a foul.

#1 - You physically are too much for the opponent and they have to use illegal contact to stop you. Examples would be you get the ball down low and only a foul can stop you from going up with it. Or, you blow by your man with quickness and only a foul can stop you from the layup. This is the least egregious, and the only one that you can call in pickup ball and nobody will look at you funny.

SGA doesn't really get many of these, or not many anyways, since he doesn't have elite athleticism or quickness (very good change of direction though).

#2 - You are making a basketball play, but in doing so, through your own craftiness, have forced your defender into a bad position. You then capitalize on this and draw the foul intentionally, though it wasn't your original intent. Examples would be a series of pump fakes to get the defender into the air and then leaping into them though still in a mostly normal shooting motion. Or, defender is blatantly reaching in and you go up with the shot.

SGA mostly gets these, which is why I don't find him as hard to watch as a Harden (who I'll be describing in #3). I also think Wade/Butler had a lot of these as well, especially Jimmy.

#3 - You are no longer making a natural basketball play, the entirety of the move is designed to draw a foul, and was never intended to actually score or make a play. These are the James Harden specialty that specifically aim at playing by the letter of the law in the rulebook, but not the spirit. Examples include drives where you intentionally try to trip over the defender, kicking legs out, swinging the ball wildly to hit your defenders arms, basically anything that you'd never actually do in any type of casual setting that are simply to exploit the rules as they're written.

SGA doesn't do a lot of these, though I see it occasionally. James Harden is by far the worst offender here, though I saw Luka doing it more than he usually does this season with the Lakers (I think it was a function of his fitness, easier to get to the line than score naturally). Embiid is definitely a big offender here as well.

All that said, I think SGA is mostly #2 with a dash of #3, but the fact he gets very little #1 makes it easy for some fans to dismiss him as nothing more than a foul merchant. I think he's definitely more than that, but it is a huge facet of his game, for sure.

[walk with me]

since the defense can’t really be physical with the offense

Unless if you wear a thunder jersey especially if your name is Caruso

Bring physical outside of making a scoring play (drive or shot) is different than being physical during a scoring play.

Okc defenders are smart. They don’t get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, especially during drives and shots. Their physicality gets in offenses heads and make them play outside of themselves. Everyone wants “equal” treatment but not everyone is doing what okcs defense and SGA can do.

[levon]

He was definitely not even with him when they called the foul, he was even further behind than my first screenshot. I used that screenshot to show the point where Ant was no longer in legal position to make contact, but here is the point of the foul. Ant is to the side or almost behind SGA, well out of position.

You keep posting screenshots before the foul was called.

And besides, if you truly wanted it called by the book like you are advocating for here, then the physical OKC defenders would be called for fouls on nearly every drive by an opponent.

There is no point after the screenshots I posted where Ant is even with SGA. He only gets further behind. Go back and watched frame by frame.

If you watch OKC defenders, they are usually very active and physical when in position, but very hands off once out of position. Wallace is very good at this. He prioritizes sprinting back into position rather than trying to guide or nudge guys while behind behind/out of position.

You don't even have to watch OKC to see this. Randle guarded SGA really well on one position by pulling his hands back and squaring up with contact to the chest. No advantage created by the offensive player = no foul, miss. There was another player where he reached in with his hands and it was called a foul. McDaniels all night was reaching in stupidly, and so was Ant.

And so was OKC! There were 2 or 3 players where a help defender was in position (Caruso for the charge) and the man who got beat swiped down. Fouls called on all plays. Then there were swipedowns not called (Conley on made SGA layup) and swipedowns that probably weren't fouls, but were called (Conley attacking).

That was not officiating biased towards OKC. Overall I thought it forced both teams to play super clean. Next crew might make them get away with stuff on both ends, and you have to adjust. I've seen one-sided officiating and that wasn't even close, and the numbers don't bear it out either.

People also fundamentally misunderstand what good defense is. Just like good offenses take risky shots that don't always pan out, good defenses take risks that don't always pan out too, but sometimes they do (uncalled fouls). That doesn't mean the defense is systematically taking advantage of officials or that it's rigged. The NBA actually rewards physical defense.

[MrBigShot]

It does feel like he gets a regular season whistle while everyone else is officiated with a playoff whistle. And he is an egregious foul baiter...even more than Brunson.

[Enso]

As a Heat fan I have rooted for guys known as foul merchants in the past (Wade, Butler). What I'll say is, to me, there's three ways to draw a foul.

#1 - You physically are too much for the opponent and they have to use illegal contact to stop you. Examples would be you get the ball down low and only a foul can stop you from going up with it. Or, you blow by your man with quickness and only a foul can stop you from the layup. This is the least egregious, and the only one that you can call in pickup ball and nobody will look at you funny.

SGA doesn't really get many of these, or not many anyways, since he doesn't have elite athleticism or quickness (very good change of direction though).

#2 - You are making a basketball play, but in doing so, through your own craftiness, have forced your defender into a bad position. You then capitalize on this and draw the foul intentionally, though it wasn't your original intent. Examples would be a series of pump fakes to get the defender into the air and then leaping into them though still in a mostly normal shooting motion. Or, defender is blatantly reaching in and you go up with the shot.

SGA mostly gets these, which is why I don't find him as hard to watch as a Harden (who I'll be describing in #3). I also think Wade/Butler had a lot of these as well, especially Jimmy.

#3 - You are no longer making a natural basketball play, the entirety of the move is designed to draw a foul, and was never intended to actually score or make a play. These are the James Harden specialty that specifically aim at playing by the letter of the law in the rulebook, but not the spirit. Examples include drives where you intentionally try to trip over the defender, kicking legs out, swinging the ball wildly to hit your defenders arms, basically anything that you'd never actually do in any type of casual setting that are simply to exploit the rules as they're written.

SGA doesn't do a lot of these, though I see it occasionally. James Harden is by far the worst offender here, though I saw Luka doing it more than he usually does this season with the Lakers (I think it was a function of his fitness, easier to get to the line than score naturally). Embiid is definitely a big offender here as well.

All that said, I think SGA is mostly #2 with a dash of #3, but the fact he gets very little #1 makes it easy for some fans to dismiss him as nothing more than a foul merchant. I think he's definitely more than that, but it is a huge facet of his game, for sure.

Well said.

Wade was a combo of the first two and in his earlier years a lot of it was #1. He was just too quick and strong. He would literally put his body on the line to the detriment of his long term health.

I think why people were freaking out last night was because SGA was mostly doing #3 with some #2 sprinkled in. I haven't seen him enough but last night he was playing more like Harden than anything.

[G R E Y]

I can't read through 14 now.

Has anyone posted a Merchant of OKC compilation yet?

[Hoop Hunter]

Read on Twitter

This is **** crazy. I've never seen this before. Props, a new **** level.

[Kawaii Leonard]

Read on Twitter

[sashaturiaf]

As a Heat fan I have rooted for guys known as foul merchants in the past (Wade, Butler). What I'll say is, to me, there's three ways to draw a foul.

#1 - You physically are too much for the opponent and they have to use illegal contact to stop you. Examples would be you get the ball down low and only a foul can stop you from going up with it. Or, you blow by your man with quickness and only a foul can stop you from the layup. This is the least egregious, and the only one that you can call in pickup ball and nobody will look at you funny.

SGA doesn't really get many of these, or not many anyways, since he doesn't have elite athleticism or quickness (very good change of direction though).

#2 - You are making a basketball play, but in doing so, through your own craftiness, have forced your defender into a bad position. You then capitalize on this and draw the foul intentionally, though it wasn't your original intent. Examples would be a series of pump fakes to get the defender into the air and then leaping into them though still in a mostly normal shooting motion. Or, defender is blatantly reaching in and you go up with the shot.

SGA mostly gets these, which is why I don't find him as hard to watch as a Harden (who I'll be describing in #3). I also think Wade/Butler had a lot of these as well, especially Jimmy.

#3 - You are no longer making a natural basketball play, the entirety of the move is designed to draw a foul, and was never intended to actually score or make a play. These are the James Harden specialty that specifically aim at playing by the letter of the law in the rulebook, but not the spirit. Examples include drives where you intentionally try to trip over the defender, kicking legs out, swinging the ball wildly to hit your defenders arms, basically anything that you'd never actually do in any type of casual setting that are simply to exploit the rules as they're written.

SGA doesn't do a lot of these, though I see it occasionally. James Harden is by far the worst offender here, though I saw Luka doing it more than he usually does this season with the Lakers (I think it was a function of his fitness, easier to get to the line than score naturally). Embiid is definitely a big offender here as well.

All that said, I think SGA is mostly #2 with a dash of #3, but the fact he gets very little #1 makes it easy for some fans to dismiss him as nothing more than a foul merchant. I think he's definitely more than that, but it is a huge facet of his game, for sure.

You summed it up very well, bravo.

I agree SGAs game is less offensive to the game than Hardens, but Harden was a more likeable and genuine personality than SGA who feels pretentious and forced.

[OxAndFox]

Read on Twitter

This is **** crazy. I've never seen this before. Props, a new **** level.

I'm pretty sure the Knicks rushed Jalen to the nearest hospital in a Waaahmbulance.
His neck must be strained from whipping it back 152 times during the game.
Now, I will give him that he went through a lot more contact than FTA, but boy oh boy, there are still some phantom calls. The one in your clip should literally be a fine and flop warning. Like its the closest thing to giving yourself an uppercut.
You have people wondering if this game was played on Broadway and not MSG.

The funniest thing though, is FTA was still worse than him. At least Brunson plays through contact on occasion. Maybe they're just going for the most egregious though, and if that's the case, Brunson just won the title and I seriously don't think it can be topped.

[DB23]

As a Heat fan I have rooted for guys known as foul merchants in the past (Wade, Butler). What I'll say is, to me, there's three ways to draw a foul.

#1 - You physically are too much for the opponent and they have to use illegal contact to stop you. Examples would be you get the ball down low and only a foul can stop you from going up with it. Or, you blow by your man with quickness and only a foul can stop you from the layup. This is the least egregious, and the only one that you can call in pickup ball and nobody will look at you funny.

SGA doesn't really get many of these, or not many anyways, since he doesn't have elite athleticism or quickness (very good change of direction though).

#2 - You are making a basketball play, but in doing so, through your own craftiness, have forced your defender into a bad position. You then capitalize on this and draw the foul intentionally, though it wasn't your original intent. Examples would be a series of pump fakes to get the defender into the air and then leaping into them though still in a mostly normal shooting motion. Or, defender is blatantly reaching in and you go up with the shot.

SGA mostly gets these, which is why I don't find him as hard to watch as a Harden (who I'll be describing in #3). I also think Wade/Butler had a lot of these as well, especially Jimmy.

#3 - You are no longer making a natural basketball play, the entirety of the move is designed to draw a foul, and was never intended to actually score or make a play. These are the James Harden specialty that specifically aim at playing by the letter of the law in the rulebook, but not the spirit. Examples include drives where you intentionally try to trip over the defender, kicking legs out, swinging the ball wildly to hit your defenders arms, basically anything that you'd never actually do in any type of casual setting that are simply to exploit the rules as they're written.

SGA doesn't do a lot of these, though I see it occasionally. James Harden is by far the worst offender here, though I saw Luka doing it more than he usually does this season with the Lakers (I think it was a function of his fitness, easier to get to the line than score naturally). Embiid is definitely a big offender here as well.

All that said, I think SGA is mostly #2 with a dash of #3, but the fact he gets very little #1 makes it easy for some fans to dismiss him as nothing more than a foul merchant. I think he's definitely more than that, but it is a huge facet of his game, for sure.

This is pretty accurate and fair.

Part of it is on the refs for allowing it. Watching the end of the Knicks/pistons is just a totally different level of physicality allowed. And yes I think other fans have a fair complaint against Dort and Caruso but especially Dort who gets away with murder.

[RB34]

I can't read through 14 now.

Has anyone posted a Merchant of OKC compilation yet?

I saw one set to the song Whistle by Flo Rida, I chuckled.

[ImmortalD24]

From @bleacherreport

I agree with the SGA being slippery take. His ability to change directions and find the gaps reminds me of an a slower yet longer Tony Parker.

[Ari_Emanuel]

Nah. He has a lot of cushion, ball out of not. More than other stars.

That's ok, but I have to call it as I see it.

Like I called out him resting before the back to back against Denver and for scoring 12 points in the fourth of G7 against Denver when OKC was already up 25.

Spinning things does no one any favors.

Did you see the Thunder go up huge in the 3rd when he started making everything?

I did and the point still stands.

SGA can shoot under 40% and OKC can still thrive. Why? Because the team can hang in the game when he's shooting 2/13 or whatever it is in the first half.

Not everyone is in that situation.

You can feel however you want. I'm going to think and write how I feel.

Majority of perimeter stars chuck 7+ threes per game and drive to the hoop 1/3 as much as SGA does.

[Edrees]

I used to think so, but if it's working in the playoffs it means he is also good in other areas. So while he does get a huge benefit of the whistle, he's actually really good in all areas as well so he is still able to succeed even when the foul mercantile business isn't quite going well, so I'm a little hesitant saying he's full on foul merchant. I am actually undecided on this. The next 2 rounds will help me decide on him, especially the finals.

To me foul merchant means you are truly only relient on that and your game dissapears when it's not happening (like Harden in the playoffs)

[Ari_Emanuel]

His playstyle is Harden-ic and Embiiid-ish; of course it’s frowned upon and even hated.

The good news (for the entire NBA fandom) so far is that both those guys are career losers. Those same playstyles are what has stopped them from going deep into the playoffs and win the title.

An SGA championship will validate that playstyle and of course, the NBA fans does not want that because validation means replication in this copycat league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He shot over 50% during the regular season and is at 48% right now. 2 weeks away from winning it all.

Have you ever actually played basketball?