2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[CazOnReal]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

[Mark_83]

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

But but but, what about self creation?

You're wrong, I'm right

Nothing against self-creation of course. But people sometimes act like that's supercedes all other considerations. They'd take an inefficient chucker with self creation over an efficient 3 + D player who can possibly develop that skill over time.

[XTC]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

I honestly think gm's and coaches don't value the score first archetype anymore, especially guys like Whitmore who have tunnel vision.

If I was a GM I'd load up with defenders who can hit 3's at every position. 3+D goes beyond wings now, give me a stretch big who can play defense over Jalen Green. Give me Jalen Suggs over Immanuel Quickley, give me Scottie Barnes over Franz Wagner. If you can provide defense plus another skill, that's huge. Give me a team full of defenders with multiple skillsets (passing, 3's, shot blocking, steals). Unless you're an allstar, I honestly think self creation is useless.

I also don't think Fleming is a wing, he's a 4 who can play the 5, and switch onto the perimeter. These type of guys don't come around often.

[grant101]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

While I prefer drafting for potential in the lottery, no issue with this approach… you know, provided they can shoot and defend, not just look the part

[XTC]

But but but, what about self creation?

You're wrong, I'm right

Nothing against self-creation of course. But people sometimes act like that's supercedes all other considerations. They'd take an inefficient chucker with self creation over an efficient 3 + D player who can possibly develop that skill over time.

I think with the way they NBA is going unless you're a legit allstar self creation is overrated. The new NBA isn't about iso scoring, it's about team play, shooting, and defense. Unless you're scoring 20 PPG on a TS of 60%, you need to offer more than just PPGZ!!!11

Like I said before give me a team full of defenders who each have differing skillsets. Give me a stretch big with switchability (Fleming) over a shot creator who can't do much more. Give me a 3+D wing (Bryant) over a score first wing who doesn't offer anything else to the table. I'll be the first to admit Scottie had a bad year, but he's an amazing defender with multiple skillsets, let's load up on these guys. This team badly needs 3+D wings, and stretch bigs who can play defense.

[S.W.A.N]

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

I honestly think gm's and coaches don't value the score first archetype anymore, especially guys like Whitmore who have tunnel vision.

If I was a GM I'd load up with defenders who can hit 3's at every position. 3+D goes beyond wings now, give me a stretch big who can play defense over Jalen Green. Give me Jalen Suggs over Immanuel Quickley, give me Scottie Barnes over Franz Wagner. If you can provide defense plus another skill, that's huge. Give me a team full of defenders with multiple skillsets (passing, 3's, shot blocking, steals). Unless you're an allstar, I honestly think self creation is useless.

I also don't think Fleming is a wing, he's a 4 who can play the 5, and switch onto the perimeter. These type of guys don't come around often.

This is the way.

I've been talking up the Bryant/Fleming/Noa grouping as guys I'd love at 9... Now I'm really trying to talk myself out of wanting Coward as well.

I would love Khaman or Fears for their outlier talents but if you give me one of Kon/Bryant/Fleming/Noa/Coward I feel like we'd added a core piece for the future that fits winning basketball.

And Fleming is totally a 4 and part time 5.

[Psubs]

The way Nesmith just went off, I'd take Tre Johnson #2 and Coward has to be in the top 15.

All 3+D draft prospects team.

PG Jase Richardson
SG Coward
SF Bryant
PF Fleming
C Condon

Would they be able to hold their own against...

PG Harper
SG Tre
SF Ace
PF Flagg
C Queen

[Agimat]

Egor Demin

[S.W.A.N]

So after listening to several podcasts today (no ceilings, locked on, etc.) I had to go back and really look at my wish list.

So far I've narrowed it down a bit
Tre
Kon
Khaman
Bryant
Noa
Fleming
Yak
Coward
Demin
Traore

Such a interesting group. Not as strong as 2023 but way better than 2024.

3 point guards. All with good or great size, super high upside but also lower floors.
2 shooting guards. (Tre,Kon) Both probably gone before we pick, but if they fall, you feel good getting one of them.
3 Wings (Bryant/Noa/Coward) Big wings who defend and can shoot are worth their weight in gold.
1 PF (Fleming) Arms for days, shot blocking mobile 3 point shooter... A bigger stronger Boucher? long term could be an elite 6th man who plays pf/c
1 C (khaman) Defensive monster long term Yak replacement

We don't need a SG, we have 600 of them, but a pg, big wing. stretch big or a true C... All fit our roster needs.

Have to start looking at the second round because I have zero worries about first round. We going to get something good. Can't wait to see who Masai and team love

[SpezNc]

Man... Not gonna lie, CMB would just be the most boring pick possible. After the season we just had, to fall to 9th to draft a Scottie/Mogbo remix? Damnnn that would be tough to see.

It’s the 9th pick . Not top4

We should not expect a franchise altering pick at #9

I don’t see CMB as boring at all even if I would understand that sentiment.

On my end I would be ecstatic . If Masai/Bobby draft him in spite of the fit with Scottie, this would means they think he is the real deal.

I think I prefer defensive minded player over offensive. I tink it’s easier to have a positive impact with defence. Because defence lead to offence

I understand the sentiment of being underwhelmed but I will be pleased with CMB.

There is many options I would be OK at 9 and CMB is definitely one of them.

The disappointment was striking out at the lottery IMO. The dream of a franchise altering pick just died on arrival .

[Brinbe]

On-ball creation is def important for the guys who are primary offensive drivers like a Luka, Trae, Hali or Brunson but even those guys need elite defenders around them to cover up for their defense. SGA is the MVP because he can do that and defend at a high level. Ant is up there too. Otherwise, yes, the best teams like OKC, Minny, Indiana, etc load up on shooting and defense because that's how the game is played nowadays.

Now I could see the argument that we lack that primary guy (though i think we'll see that Ingram can do an ok job of it) but I don't see many in this draft outside Harper, Fears and perhaps Flagg that can do it anyway. Perhaps one of those lower ranked guards breaks out, but that seems like a crapshoot.

Marginally decent secondary playmaking in guys like Kasp or Demin is overrated as I don't they'll ever be given the guys like that to lead an offense so what else can they give you off-ball? Too many trade-offs.

Exactly why I've been so high on Bryant as his defense is that good as a leading trait and I think Maluach can get there too as a shot deterrer in the paint, though I understand the hesitancy there. Same reason why I'm high on Kon as I think he'll be a knock-down shooter and I think he'll be an adequate enough defender to get by without being someone marked like a Grady.

But regardless, at a minimum you gotta do some of both at a decent level to potentially see the floor when it matters in the playoffs and those are the guys I want to draft.

[Clutch0z24]

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

I honestly think gm's and coaches don't value the score first archetype anymore, especially guys like Whitmore who have tunnel vision.

If I was a GM I'd load up with defenders who can hit 3's at every position. 3+D goes beyond wings now, give me a stretch big who can play defense over Jalen Green. Give me Jalen Suggs over Immanuel Quickley, give me Scottie Barnes over Franz Wagner. If you can provide defense plus another skill, that's huge. Give me a team full of defenders with multiple skillsets (passing, 3's, shot blocking, steals). Unless you're an allstar, I honestly think self creation is useless.

I also don't think Fleming is a wing, he's a 4 who can play the 5, and switch onto the perimeter. These type of guys don't come around often.

That take is a little bit of a false narrative because the reasons these teams are in the dance to begin with (Knicks/Pacers) Because they do in fact BOTH have players that can self create/shot creation/hit tough shots when it matters.....Brunson/Hailiburton have been 2 of the best self creation/shot creators in this playoffs...That is why they are in the NBA Conf Finals....At times both Brunson/Haili carried these teams to wins or hit big time clutch or game winners...

Ofc 3&D type players are very important....But first you must have that kind of a player on your team ^ to make it to the dance to begin with....All 4 teams in the Conf Finals have these players Ant/Shai/Brunson/Hali....Now ofc you have 3&D role players....The only one we have is potentially Ingram...Problem with Ingram is he has not been to the playoffs much and hes injury prone...So we have no idea how he will be next year...

Ofc 3&D matters but a team full of them would only be able to take you so far....Prolly a fringe playoff team if you do not have a player like a Hali/Brunson...

[OakleyDokely]

But but but, what about self creation?

You're wrong, I'm right

Nothing against self-creation of course. But people sometimes act like that's supercedes all other considerations. They'd take an inefficient chucker with self creation over an efficient 3 + D player who can possibly develop that skill over time.

Self creation is important...if you can do it at a high level, efficiently. But not many guys can, even at the college level. I agree that people tend to overrate high volume scorers with average to below average efficiency. Those guys aren't out there in big moments, unless they can D up.

[ATLTimekeeper]

You're wrong, I'm right

Nothing against self-creation of course. But people sometimes act like that's supercedes all other considerations. They'd take an inefficient chucker with self creation over an efficient 3 + D player who can possibly develop that skill over time.

I think with the way they NBA is going unless you're a legit allstar self creation is overrated. The new NBA isn't about iso scoring, it's about team play, shooting, and defense. Unless you're scoring 20 PPG on a TS of 60%, you need to offer more than just PPGZ!!!11

Like I said before give me a team full of defenders who each have differing skillsets. Give me a stretch big with switchability (Fleming) over a shot creator who can't do much more. Give me a 3+D wing (Bryant) over a score first wing who doesn't offer anything else to the table. I'll be the first to admit Scottie had a bad year, but he's an amazing defender with multiple skillsets, let's load up on these guys. This team badly needs 3+D wings, and stretch bigs who can play defense.

You're comparing Scottie to Bryant, but Scottie isn't a 3&D wing. Go through the top 4 teams and very few players were 3&D at the lower level. They were usually stars that couldn't be stars in the NBA. When the games get tough, just standing in a corner and cutting is just scouted away. Teams adjust in games to who is hitting and who isn't, so if you are cold you are shrinking the floor.

There's a simple truth that ppg gets paid. That isn't to say that 3&D isn't important, but it should be sourced cheaply because you're going to pay your scorers. This is pick #9 and the aim should be higher.

[OakleyDokely]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

The game plan for everyteam should be to load up with 3+D players. You can never have too many of these guys, look at Houston.

It's a huge reason why so many people want Fleming, Bryant, and Coward.

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

The problem with Cam is the efficiency. No top team is going to give a large role to a guy with career splits of 44/35/70 and a 55 TS%, unless that guy also possesses a lot of other top skills like playmaking, rebounding, defending etc which Cam does not.

If you're a one dimensional scorer, you better be great at it, you can't be average.

[Westside Gunn]

The audacity of social media to compare Hali's shot to Kawhi's GAME WINNING shot. Not the same at all

[Pericles]

If the Fears rumours are correct, and he’ll be long gone before the 9th pick, the draft is shaping up wonderfully for Toronto.

One of Tre Johnson, Kon Knueppel, Derik Queen, Khaman Maluach, VJ Edgecombe, or Ace Bailey will be available at 9.

We’ll either end up with a top tier big man or a young shot creator with tremendous upside.

[Clutch0z24]

Thats why i might be higher on Jase in this draft than most people here....Most want 3&D players in this draft and imo all the 3&D guys have role player upside...Noa is not a 3&D as well hes more a Slasher/Defender...

As for Jase i feel he can play good defense, Quick with his feet, gets blocks for his size, while also stealing the ball at a good clip, Has the athletic ability, Also has a better 3 point shot than all of the "3&D" players being talked about here.....All while also having the Brunson like shot creation/iso scoring/Ball handling break down defenders upside...

I think out of the players left at 9 Jase has the highest chance to reach the Haili/Brunson level player than anyone else at 9 and thats what teams really need the most....If you can make a case why you think any other player around 9th can reach that with stats or footage to back it up please do...

[OakleyDokely]

I hope Jase does well, his dad was an exciting and awesome player in his day.

If Jase had his dads size, he'd go top 3.

[Clutch0z24]

If the Fears rumours are correct, and he’ll be long gone before the 9th pick, the draft is shaping up wonderfully for Toronto.

One of Tre Johnson, Kon Knueppel, Derik Queen, Khaman Maluach, VJ Edgecombe, or Ace Bailey will be available at 9.

We’ll either end up with a top tier big man or a young shot creator with tremendous upside.

That would be the idea....That was my thought process as well and can't really rule it out either....Because people on these boards in the past 2 drafts expected Masai to pick off board and go with guys who fit a certain skill set they thought Masai would value more....But ...Masai just ended up going BPA....Both times when Dick/Walter fell to us (Which was unexpected)....

I get people have concerns with that percieved top 9 but it is very possible Masai just picks w/e player falls to him regardless of position or need/fit....He might like the 9 guys...So i wouldn't be shocked if we end up with one of them guys on draft night....Its not the popular choice but a likely one imo...