OKC Thunder Free Throw conspiracy is so funny…

[VeggieBurger]

I’ve seen a lot of emotional posts stating that OKC is treated differently by the refs. If that is true, over the course of 82 games there should be glaring statistical evidence which substantiates that claim, right?

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=FTA

Per NBA stats, Thunder are 26th out of 30 teams in free throw attempts.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PF

Per NBA stats, Thunder are 25th out of 30 teams in fouls called against, meaning only 5 teams are called for more fouls.

As far as Shai goes, he’s number one in drives per game which account for just under half of his free throw attempts.

What this data shows is that the Thunder are:

A) penalized as they should be in accordance with their aggressive defensive style

B) not rewarded enough as a team in accordance with their offensive aggression

C) Shai is rewarded in accordance with his offensive aggression

There simply is no evidence statistically that indicates the Thunder are treated differently. If anything, it further substantiates just how amazing this team is by being one of the highest fouling teams and least free throw shooting teams.

At some point we just have to accept that the Thunder are not treated differently at all. Otherwise, you have to come with glaring statistical evidence which shows otherwise.

[RB34]

Another thread that misses the point.

[reload141]

Can’t we merge all of these threads into one? It’s getting ridiculous

[Johnny Firpo]

That's not the premise at all, my man. I'm not saying I fully agree, but this is the premise: OKC is a team that fouls the most on defense, and therefore their games often feel like old school basketball. You, as an opposing team, want to react, defend the same way on your end, since that is how the game apparently is. Only to find out that it's not actually how everyone is reffed in that particular game, because there is one guy who they can just spam against your defense, whenever they are in trouble or even if they just want to build a lead, and it's working. And it somehow feels like a different game outside of the game that you are trying to play on the court. Now whether that's true or not, I will not say, but that is the premise, not that OKC gets more free throws than anyone. They obviously don't.

[Rendei]

The eye test tells me that SGA gets some pretty soft calls. No stat that you throw in front of me will change what I see with my own eyes.

[Deivork]

As stated by some replies, that's not it. OKC plays great team game and are not favoured by design. It's just that players like Shai and Brunson know how to trick the refs to blow the whistle when there's minimal contact and that to me, it's cheating the game. That's my issue with competitiveness and joy in watching.

[Hohum]

The history of the world is nothing but men's eyes lying to them because emotions outweigh senses. Everyone thought the sun revolved around the Earth because of the eye test. SGA is the sun, we revolve around him.

[Johnny Bball]

What?

[Karate Diop]

I’ve seen a lot of emotional posts stating that OKC is treated differently by the refs. If that is true, over the course of 82 games there should be glaring statistical evidence which substantiates that claim, right?

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=FTA

Per NBA stats, Thunder are 26th out of 30 teams in free throw attempts.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=PF

Per NBA stats, Thunder are 25th out of 30 teams in fouls called against, meaning only 5 teams are called for more fouls.

As far as Shai goes, he’s number one in drives per game which account for just under half of his free throw attempts.

What this data shows is that the Thunder are:

A) penalized as they should be in accordance with their aggressive defensive style

B) not rewarded enough as a team in accordance with their offensive aggression

C) Shai is rewarded in accordance with his offensive aggression

There simply is no evidence statistically that indicates the Thunder are treated differently. If anything, it further substantiates just how amazing this team is by being one of the highest fouling teams and least free throw shooting teams.

At some point we just have to accept that the Thunder are not treated differently at all. Otherwise, you have to come with glaring statistical evidence which shows otherwise.

As always people miss the point... It's more so about what they're able to get away with than what is called.

The Thunder absolutely have been given a longer leash than certain other teams when it comes to physical play.

This isn't a new thing in the NBA, historically the Lakers and Celtics are the poster boys for this preferential treatment. Recently we've seen Golden State get their own rulebook when it comes to moving screens and physical play, this is a continuation of a problem - that everyone other than Thunder fans seem willing to acknowledge.

[Hohum]

As stated by some replies, that's not it. OKC plays great team game and are not favoured by design. It's just that players like Shai and Brunson know how to trick the refs to blow the whistle when there's minimal contact and that to me, it's cheating.

Are catchers who can frame pitches in baseball cheating?

[cgf]

Certainly an element of perspective. You see the fouls called against OKC as evidence that refs don’t let them get away with a lot. Others will see that as evidence that OKC leans heavily into the “foul on every play because they won’t call a foul on every play” ethos.

And SGA is the only Thunder player I’ve seen people complain about foul baiting, so it’s unsurprising that they don’t take a ton of FTs as a team. Especially with how much the score in transition and from behind the arc.

[The Master]

Yeah, OKC had the 2nd-worst free throw differential in the NBA in regular season.

That's why these discussions about free throws are so incoherent: people for years now were arguing that Lakers are favored by the referees based on FTA differential, and simultaneously all year people are complaining how Thunder can do much more defensively than any other team, despite the fact they have the 2nd worst FTA differential in the NBA.

Even in the playoffs Thunder are almost even in FTA differential and yet based purely on narrative you would've thought that they're extremely up in this measure.

So yeah, SGA is a foul baiter, they play intensive defense and get more calls than other teams, and that would be it.

[Butterfingers1]

Even in okc timberwolves game 1, where Timberwolves shoot nothing but 3’s all game… still the Wolves got to pretty much even with OKC in free throws. OKC gets called for a lot of fouls, but yes, they also have defenders that are better than your average Joe defender at disciplined physicality, so they end up with an elite defense despite giving up lots of free throws

[VeggieBurger]

None of these arguments I’m seeing make sense. I keep hearing that OKC is being given a longer leash, yet they are already one of the highest fouling teams in the NBA. Is the implication that OKC should be far and away the number one fouling team? Are they that egregious physically that they are overrated as good defenders? I just don’t understand it. What about the fact that they don’t go to the free throw line nearly as much as they should - commensurate to the amount of drives they take. So the argument only goes one way? This sounds like hater territory to me instead of actual fact.

What do these players have in common?
LeBron
Doncic
Jokic
Brunson
Giannis
Harden
SGA
Young
Edwards

All considered more or less top 20 players. All have multiple video examples of them flailing, flopping, pushing off, grabbing arms, etc to draw fouls. The only reason that SGA seems like he “gets away” with a lot is because he also happens to spend more time forcing his way to the hole than anyone. If SGA is considered unwatchable, the those guys should be clumped in the same boat.

This eye test, league has to stop, etc is just soft sounding to me. Is the league going to start granting the rest of the Thunder more free throws to make up the seemingly gross disparity between SGA and the rest of the team? It’s silly.

The moral is - if you have talent like SGA, you’d be getting calls too.

[kazyv]

None of these arguments I’m seeing make sense. I keep hearing that OKC is being given a longer leash, yet they are already one of the highest fouling teams in the NBA. Is the implication that OKC should be far and away the number one fouling team? Are they that egregious physically that they are overrated as good defenders? I just don’t understand it. What about the fact that they don’t go to the free throw line nearly as much as they should - commensurate to the amount of drives they take. So the argument only goes one way? This sounds like hater territory to me instead of actual fact.

What do these players have in common?
LeBron
Doncic
Jokic
Brunson
Giannis
Harden
SGA
Young
Edwards

All considered more or less top 20 players. All have multiple video examples of them flailing, flopping, pushing off, grabbing arms, etc to draw fouls. The only reason that SGA seems like he “gets away” with a lot is because he also happens to spend more time forcing his way to the hole than anyone. If SGA is considered unwatchable, the those guys should be clumped in the same boat.

This eye test, league has to stop, etc is just soft sounding to me. Is the league going to start granting the rest of the Thunder more free throws to make up the seemingly gross disparity between SGA and the rest of the team? It’s silly.

The moral is - if you have talent like SGA, you’d be getting calls too.

You might as well have written: What do all of those players have in common? They all dribble the ball and shoot it sometimes. What a nonstatement. It's clear that some of those are not like the others.

Has Lebron flopped before? Yes he has. Has jokic flopped in these playoffs? Yep, we've all seen it. Are Harden and SGA just not even in the same plane of existence when it comes to free throws compared to Lebron/Jokic? Most definitely anybody who has watched basketball will agree.

So wtf is the point of lumping them all together, other than trying to exonerate a playstyle that nobody wants to see. There is universal hatred for Harden and now increasingly for SGA. But it isn't some conspiracy by the "haters". The more FTA they get by cheating the game, they more hated they are. As Harden regressed and got less free throws, he received less hate. This isn't rocket science. You can game the system, but you're gonna have to deal with the consequences of being hated. Those are the rules

[Ckay]

[Aeternus]

None of these arguments I’m seeing make sense. I keep hearing that OKC is being given a longer leash, yet they are already one of the highest fouling teams in the NBA. Is the implication that OKC should be far and away the number one fouling team? Are they that egregious physically that they are overrated as good defenders? I just don’t understand it. What about the fact that they don’t go to the free throw line nearly as much as they should - commensurate to the amount of drives they take. So the argument only goes one way? This sounds like hater territory to me instead of actual fact.

What do these players have in common?
LeBron
Doncic
Jokic
Brunson
Giannis
Harden
SGA
Young
Edwards

All considered more or less top 20 players. All have multiple video examples of them flailing, flopping, pushing off, grabbing arms, etc to draw fouls. The only reason that SGA seems like he “gets away” with a lot is because he also happens to spend more time forcing his way to the hole than anyone. If SGA is considered unwatchable, the those guys should be clumped in the same boat.

This eye test, league has to stop, etc is just soft sounding to me. Is the league going to start granting the rest of the Thunder more free throws to make up the seemingly gross disparity between SGA and the rest of the team? It’s silly.

The moral is - if you have talent like SGA, you’d be getting calls too.

Yes, this is literally the implication I've seen in every basketball forum/social since the start of the playoffs.
You can go wherever and find comments like "if I was allowed to foul that much without a whistle I'd be able to shut down Jokic as well as Caruso did", which no they **** wouldn't, but damned if the guy didn't resemble a proud father hugging his pregnant wife more than an nba defender.

[TheNG]

Isn't this what a "great defensive player" means? A player who knows the fine limit how to play hard without getting calls by the refs?
And maybe it's just OKC have a lot of these players, plus a player who is very good at foul baiting?

[ThunderBolt]

Another thread that misses the point.

It doesn't miss the point. You just don't like the point it's making.

[Deivork]

As stated by some replies, that's not it. OKC plays great team game and are not favoured by design. It's just that players like Shai and Brunson know how to trick the refs to blow the whistle when there's minimal contact and that to me, it's cheating.

Are catchers who can frame pitches in baseball cheating?

I know jack about baseball. I'm about to quit watching NBA after 20 years back to euroleague... if it wasn't for the Pacers