2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[Pointgod]

Cam Whitmore has been struggling to get minutes because they have too many of "those guys". Similar to the Raptors having too many SGs, you absolutely can have too many 3 & D wings and need to consolidate so you're not having difficulty getting your guys minutes and especially reps for development sake.

I honestly think gm's and coaches don't value the score first archetype anymore, especially guys like Whitmore who have tunnel vision.

If I was a GM I'd load up with defenders who can hit 3's at every position. 3+D goes beyond wings now, give me a stretch big who can play defense over Jalen Green. Give me Jalen Suggs over Immanuel Quickley, give me Scottie Barnes over Franz Wagner. If you can provide defense plus another skill, that's huge. Give me a team full of defenders with multiple skillsets (passing, 3's, shot blocking, steals). Unless you're an allstar, I honestly think self creation is useless.

I also don't think Fleming is a wing, he's a 4 who can play the 5, and switch onto the perimeter. These type of guys don't come around often.

That take is a little bit of a false narrative because the reasons these teams are in the dance to begin with (Knicks/Pacers) Because they do in fact BOTH have players that can self create/shot creation/hit tough shots when it matters.....Brunson/Hailiburton have been 2 of the best self creation/shot creators in this playoffs...That is why they are in the NBA Conf Finals....At times both Brunson/Haili carried these teams to wins or hit big time clutch or game winners...

Ofc 3&D type players are very important....But first you must have that kind of a player on your team ^ to make it to the dance to begin with....All 4 teams in the Conf Finals have these players Ant/Shai/Brunson/Hali....Now ofc you have 3&D role players....The only one we have is potentially Ingram...Problem with Ingram is he has not been to the playoffs much and hes injury prone...So we have no idea how he will be next year...

Ofc 3&D matters but a team full of them would only be able to take you so far....Prolly a fringe playoff team if you do not have a player like a Hali/Brunson...

Yeah priority should be to draft an on ball offensive creator with a lottery pick, not a 3 and D guy. 3 and D guys are found in every draft throughout the draft while on ball creators are harder to find outside of the lottery.

[OakleyDokely]

Mock drafts at #9

Tankathon - K Maluach
Yahoo - K Maluach
USA Today - K Maluach
ESPN - C Murray-Boyles
Nbadraft.net - N Traore
The Ringer - K Jakucionis
NBA.com - N Essengue
Bleacher Report - K Knueppel

[God Squad]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

We have Neismith at home in JaKobe Walter (I think/hope).

[Pointgod]

Mock drafts at #9

Tankathon - K Maluach
Yahoo - K Maluach
USA Today - K Maluach
ESPN - C Murray-Boyles
Nbadraft.net - N Traore
The Ringer - K Jakucionis
NBA.com - N Essengue
Bleacher Report - K Knueppel

Brother throw that NBadraft.net mock in the garbage

[WuTang_CMB]

Watch on YouTube

[WuTang_CMB]

Did more film on traore. Im out on him. I dont see how we would take him at 9 with his flaws

[DG88]

I think right now these are the player I've narrowed things down to for me.

Jase Richardson
Cedric Coward
Kasparas Jakucionis
Rasheer Fleming
Carter Bryant

This may expand but I'm out on Traore, just doesn't do enough defensively and Essengue, just too much jack of all trades master of none.

Richardson to me has the most upside while also providing 3 level scoring. It would be great if he was a few inches taller and longer, but he still produced at a high level as a freshman for Tom Izzo of all coaches.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[WuTang_CMB]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

[PhilBlackson]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

It's not bad asset management though if he pans out, then you look like a genius

I (like some others) have been advocating trading back into the mid first or so for Fleming but seeing Yang moving well out there, I think he's taken RF's place for me lol and now I'm hoping we can find a way to grab Yang. I loved him last year and that cooled off when some posters were saying he looked heavy/slow. But now that I've seen him in good shape and moving really well all back aboard lol.

I like him so much I wouldn't care if we took both him & Maluach even though I know it's obviously preferable that we'd use our pick on a different position which would obviously be the better/smarter route that I'd agree we should take. But I don't think it would be the worst thing having two 7'2 monsters lol we're seeing the value of big men go back up and whichever of the 2 isn't quite living up to expectations we could trade at a later date. Again not the way I'd go about it but I like Hansen so much that I'd be willing to pass on Maluach if we knew we had a deal lined up for another pick in the mid 1st, then just take the true BPA at 9 which would actually be my plan if I were the FO.

[Raptorfan2012]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

Why is it bad asset management? Because online mock drafts don't have him in the lotto? If you believe this guy is the real deal, then you just take him and roll the dice. The re-draft a few years down the road is more important than the mock drafts prior.

[WuTang_CMB]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/2025-nba-draft-workout-tracker-where-are-prospects-working-out/

Lamont Buttler and Tahooey added

[PhilBlackson]

I think right now these are the player I've narrowed things down to for me.

Jase Richardson
Cedric Coward
Kasparas Jakucionis
Rasheer Fleming
Carter Bryant

This may expand but I'm out on Traore, just doesn't do enough defensively and Essengue, just too much jack of all trades master of none.

Richardson to me has the most upside while also providing 3 level scoring. It would be great if he was a few inches taller and longer, but he still produced at a high level as a freshman for Tom Izzo of all coaches.

I have such a hard time getting on the Jase wagon...I get it, he's good at shooting but he can barely dribble using his right hand and of course he's small. People have thrown out Brunson's name but the reason why Brunson can be as effective as he is, is that he both has a better handle and more importantly his strength which is obv a result of his thick frame. Jalen is able to use that strength to bump back defenders and his handle to work his way into whatever area of the court he's trying to get to for his shot. Maybe I need to see more footage of Jase but all I had seen was a kid that was really good at finding angles and taking a few dribbles before he pulls up.

For context...

IQ is listed at 6'3 with a 6'8 wingspan
Jase is 6'1 3/4 with a 6'6 wingspan

Brunson is listed at 198 pounds
Jase is 178 pounds

To me he seems substantially smaller than I think many people realize and if he doesn't have an elite handle or extra strength that's where my doubts come in that he'll ever be good enough to become an all-star level player. Not to say he can't be a good player but I'm not sure I see the same level of upside others do.

Him and Tahaad Pettiford are basically the same size but Tahaad actually scored at a slightly higher clip and was a better passer with Jase being a slightly better rebounder. So idk what to think of Jase personally. I'm not hating, I'm just a little skeptical.

[RoteSchroder]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

Might need to get a top 15 for Yang. Hawks, Nets, Houston and maybe even Chicago are threats to take him. Hawks desperately need a big and they have 13.

Houston has 10. They’ve got the Yao connection and they took a similar archetype in Sengun

[Psubs]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

Why is it bad asset management? Because online mock drafts don't have him in the lotto? If you believe this guy is the real deal, then you just take him and roll the dice. The re-draft a few years down the road is more important than the mock drafts prior.

Ya, like Thon Maker at #10 and Darko Milicic at #2. Ironically both franchises went on to win a championship after those fumbles.

[Psubs]

So...did every 3+D guy just see their value rise after tonight's game?

Lol

We have Neismith at home in JaKobe Walter (I think/hope).

No, Ja'Kobe is SGA.

Battle is our Nesmith.

[billy_hoyle]

I honestly think gm's and coaches don't value the score first archetype anymore, especially guys like Whitmore who have tunnel vision.

If I was a GM I'd load up with defenders who can hit 3's at every position. 3+D goes beyond wings now, give me a stretch big who can play defense over Jalen Green. Give me Jalen Suggs over Immanuel Quickley, give me Scottie Barnes over Franz Wagner. If you can provide defense plus another skill, that's huge. Give me a team full of defenders with multiple skillsets (passing, 3's, shot blocking, steals). Unless you're an allstar, I honestly think self creation is useless.

I also don't think Fleming is a wing, he's a 4 who can play the 5, and switch onto the perimeter. These type of guys don't come around often.

That take is a little bit of a false narrative because the reasons these teams are in the dance to begin with (Knicks/Pacers) Because they do in fact BOTH have players that can self create/shot creation/hit tough shots when it matters.....Brunson/Hailiburton have been 2 of the best self creation/shot creators in this playoffs...That is why they are in the NBA Conf Finals....At times both Brunson/Haili carried these teams to wins or hit big time clutch or game winners...

Ofc 3&D type players are very important....But first you must have that kind of a player on your team ^ to make it to the dance to begin with....All 4 teams in the Conf Finals have these players Ant/Shai/Brunson/Hali....Now ofc you have 3&D role players....The only one we have is potentially Ingram...Problem with Ingram is he has not been to the playoffs much and hes injury prone...So we have no idea how he will be next year...

Ofc 3&D matters but a team full of them would only be able to take you so far....Prolly a fringe playoff team if you do not have a player like a Hali/Brunson...

Yeah priority should be to draft an on ball offensive creator with a lottery pick, not a 3 and D guy. 3 and D guys are found in every draft throughout the draft while on ball creators are harder to find outside of the lottery.

As a counter to this sensible position, I'd say that the best mid-round pick of the last 15 years is a guy that refined his self creation, but had otherworldly defensive potential, right? Talking Kawhi here, although Giannis fits this somewhat too.

Is Carter Bryant, Coward or Essengue going to develop their offensive games and become dominant two way players?

[JCP11]

I think right now these are the player I've narrowed things down to for me.

Jase Richardson
Cedric Coward
Kasparas Jakucionis
Rasheer Fleming
Carter Bryant

This may expand but I'm out on Traore, just doesn't do enough defensively and Essengue, just too much jack of all trades master of none.

Richardson to me has the most upside while also providing 3 level scoring. It would be great if he was a few inches taller and longer, but he still produced at a high level as a freshman for Tom Izzo of all coaches.

I have such a hard time getting on the Jase wagon...I get it, he's good at shooting but he can barely dribble using his right hand and of course he's small. People have thrown out Brunson's name but the reason why Brunson can be as effective as he is, is that he both has a better handle and more importantly his strength which is obv a result of his thick frame. Jalen is able to use that strength to bump back defenders and his handle to work his way into whatever area of the court he's trying to get to for his shot. Maybe I need to see more footage of Jase but all I had seen was a kid that was really good at finding angles and taking a few dribbles before he pulls up.

For context...

IQ is listed at 6'3 with a 6'8 wingspan
Jase is 6'1 3/4 with a 6'6 wingspan

Brunson is listed at 198 pounds
Jase is 178 pounds

To me he seems substantially smaller than I think many people realize and if he doesn't have an elite handle or extra strength that's where my doubts come in that he'll ever be good enough to become an all-star level player. Not to say he can't be a good player but I'm not sure I see the same level of upside others do.

Him and Tahaad Pettiford are basically the same size but Tahaad actually scored at a slightly higher clip and was a better passer with Jase being a slightly better rebounder. So idk what to think of Jase personally. I'm not hating, I'm just a little skeptical.

Same here, Jase is good but he's small/thin and not a great athlete. I still fail to see how he's a full round better than Pettiford other than being 10 lbs heavier. Tahaad is more explosive (42" vert), better at running an offense and better vision. I guess Jase is a bit stronger than Tahaad but it doesn't justify the gap. Also, Pettiford showed out in the scrimmages where Jase didn't play.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

It's not bad asset management though if he pans out, then you look like a genius

I (like some others) have been advocating trading back into the mid first or so for Fleming but seeing Yang moving well out there, I think he's taken RF's place for me lol and now I'm hoping we can find a way to grab Yang. I loved him last year and that cooled off when some posters were saying he looked heavy/slow. But now that I've seen him in good shape and moving really well all back aboard lol.

I like him so much I wouldn't care if we took both him & Maluach even though I know it's obviously preferable that we'd use our pick on a different position which would obviously be the better/smarter route that I'd agree we should take. But I don't think it would be the worst thing having two 7'2 monsters lol we're seeing the value of big men go back up and whichever of the 2 isn't quite living up to expectations we could trade at a later date. Again not the way I'd go about it but I like Hansen so much that I'd be willing to pass on Maluach if we knew we had a deal lined up for another pick in the mid 1st, then just take the true BPA at 9 which would actually be my plan if I were the FO.

I just really like his game. He’s always in control, he doesn’t get flustered, he doesn’t get annoyed at ball hogging teammates, he’s shown an amazing willingness to commit to his body, which coincides with a strong work ethic. He’s a savant on offense passing wise, he’s passable defensively. I personally think if he were Canadian, Serbian, or African we would be talking about him much more! The great thing is, neither Masai nor Darko are caught up on nationality, they’re just looking for hoopers. And Yang is a HOOPER!

[BoyzNTheHood]

Probably the guy I covet the most, but we can’t take him at 9. That’s just bad asset management. Those Brooklyn picks are enticing

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iDergfyDJveIq9pY2qCCBQ

Why is it bad asset management? Because online mock drafts don't have him in the lotto? If you believe this guy is the real deal, then you just take him and roll the dice. The re-draft a few years down the road is more important than the mock drafts prior.

It’s bad asset management if I’m the only one who values him that highly. If I’m alone in my assessment I could trade down to acquire more assets while also getting my guy.