All of SGA game 1 drawn fouls

[ThunderBolt]

People don't like players drawing fouls. People don't like them shooting threes. They don't like that the players are soft. They don't when teams are too physical. I have a solution. Find another damn sport to watch.

[NoBias]

SGA haters are typically Jokic fans or Edward’s fans.

I can’t wait for him to get his first finals mvp.

[badpotato]

SGA haters are typically Jokic fans or Edward’s fans.

I can’t wait for him to get his first finals mvp.

They also tend to be fans of clean, honest and fair basketball who dislike underhanded tactics, but what would I know.

[Slimjimzv]

Tired of the conversation. Fans of other teams and players will create whatever narrative they can to denigrate SGA and the Thunder defense. He'll be appropriately appreciated down the road.

And for those who say the NBA is behind this... You're talking about the same NBA who didn't even give the Thunder a Christmas game. The same NBA who constantly pushes large markets, Lebron, and Steph. No one in the NBA is cheating for the Thunder. The Thunder know the rules and push them to the extremes. Defenders can't stay in front of SGA, so they foul him. And he DOESN'T EVEN DRAW THAT MANY FOULS. This narrative is artificial and stupid.

[LSWF]

ok so thanks for confirming he didn't hit him in the balls

That is not what I did. Is English your first language? Only McDaniels knows the exact amount of contact to the balls region was hit. You call this a defensive foul. I call it an offensive foul. It's probably a no call for most players other than SGA.

Does it matter if it is?

Once again, have you ever been hit in the balls and not reacted?

When is someone tripping another player ever a no call?

You don't seem to understand my argument. Could be a language thing.

You don't answer my question about where SGA hand is as his wrist/forearm dislodges McDaniels. It is clear that SGA pushes off here. Their feet get tangled as a result of the push off. It's an offensive foul.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Just for a fun, very probably irrelevant element to add to this...

- It's been reported by multiple sources that Mark Lindsay was the official in Game 1 who gave SGA the benefit of the doubt on most of the "questionable" calls.

The same Mark Lindsay who Anthony Edwards was fined for calling a "cheatin' a$$ ref" in a game last January... after SGA took 16 FTAs in that game... and Edwards had 4 FTAs... which including no call on this game-sealing dunk.



Lindsay was the official right under the basket and you could see Edwards yelling at him after the dunk.

[PushDaRock]

That is not what I did. Is English your first language? Only McDaniels knows the exact amount of contact to the balls region was hit. You call this a defensive foul. I call it an offensive foul. It's probably a no call for most players other than SGA.

Does it matter if it is?

Once again, have you ever been hit in the balls and not reacted?

When is someone tripping another player ever a no call?

You don't seem to understand my argument. Could be a language thing.

You don't answer my question about where SGA hand is as his wrist/forearm dislodges McDaniels. It is clear that SGA pushes off here. Their feet get tangled as a result of the push off. It's an offensive foul.

No, you're saying he hit him in the balls. I'm just disagreeing with that statement.

What is clear is a trip happened which gets called 100% of the time, so it's not a phantom foul.

If you think that's a push off, we will just agree to disagree.

[PushDaRock]

People don't like players drawing fouls. People don't like them shooting threes. They don't like that the players are soft. They don't when teams are too physical. I have a solution. Find another damn sport to watch.

Only player on the court that's hard to whine about is Kawhi

[Peregrine01]

People see what they want to see. And believe what they want to believe.

...including the OP.

Look hard enough, and you can find a foul on EVERY NBA possession, nearly every drive, nearly every rebound, nearly every screen. And that's what gets people, including players and coaches, frustrated about the SGA whistle.

It's not a consistent whistle. It's inconsistent from player to player. Game to game. Play to play. And there are a few NBA players who know the grift better than others. Embiid knew it. Harden knew it. And SGA knows it.

I cannot and1 this enough. If you train a microscope on every play, you'll find contact on every play that qualifies as a foul. It's not whether SGA is deserving of these calls by the rule book but whether it's consistent with the way the game was reffed all-around.

I'm not envious of the refs at all who have to make split second judgments. But if they're allowing a ton of fouls go uncalled but making exceptions just because someone falls to the ground or exaggerates contact, then the game isn't being called consistently.

[Patches Perry]

The criticism isn’t that he doesn’t get fouled, it’s that he plays the game to get fouled.

This is the fairest version of the argument, that it's a distaste for the aesthetics of his game, not that calls are actually being missed. I am far more sympathetic to that than some grand conspiracy that the officials are rigging games for OKC for some reason.

[LSWF]

Does it matter if it is?

Once again, have you ever been hit in the balls and not reacted?

When is someone tripping another player ever a no call?

You don't seem to understand my argument. Could be a language thing.

You don't answer my question about where SGA hand is as his wrist/forearm dislodges McDaniels. It is clear that SGA pushes off here. Their feet get tangled as a result of the push off. It's an offensive foul.

No, you're saying he hit him in the balls. I'm just disagreeing with that statement.

What is clear is a trip happened which gets called 100% of the time, so it's not a phantom foul.

If you think that's a push off, we will just agree to disagree.

At the 5 second mark of your "proof" what do you see. I see SGA push McDaniels. You don't. I'm done.

[PushDaRock]

You don't seem to understand my argument. Could be a language thing.

You don't answer my question about where SGA hand is as his wrist/forearm dislodges McDaniels. It is clear that SGA pushes off here. Their feet get tangled as a result of the push off. It's an offensive foul.

No, you're saying he hit him in the balls. I'm just disagreeing with that statement.

What is clear is a trip happened which gets called 100% of the time, so it's not a phantom foul.

If you think that's a push off, we will just agree to disagree.

At the 5 second mark of your "proof" what do you see. I see SGA push McDaniels. You don't. I'm done.

You are done

[Larry_Russell]

Lots of chatter about Shai's whistle in game one. Here they are.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=15&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Gobert%20S.FOUL%20(P1.T1)%20(J.Capers)

Gobert bites on a pump fake and lands in to Shai's actual shot. 2 free throws.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=35&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Conley%20P.FOUL%20(P1.T3)%20(M.Lindsay)

Conley reaches for the ball and misses. When pulling his hand back he grabs and holds the off-wrist on the drive. This is uncalled. Then he reaches in a second time and makes contact with the ball, causing Shai to juggle it, but not effecting a steal. Shai turns his body to protect the ball and Conley ends up with his arms pretty much wrapped around Shai. Not the easiest thing to see because McDaniels gets in the way of the camera as it is happening. Side out.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=55&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20S.FOUL%20(P1.T4)%20(T.Ford)

McDaniels does a funny hop step to get in to position. Shai drives on McDaniels. McDaniels maintains good guarding position but puts his hand on the top of Shai's back and presses just enough to impede his progress. He quickly removes his hand and wraps it around Shai's middle back but this contact seems to be inconsequential. Overall Shai's progress wasn't impeded all that much, and while technically a foul this feels like a very generous whistle for Shai considering it is the playoffs. Ant lazily tosses the ball towards Shai who is on the ground and gets a soft technical. 3 free throws.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=63&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Randle%20S.FOUL%20(P1.PN)%20(J.Capers)

Randle sticks his arm out as Shai is driving on him, so Shai rises in to a shot and Randle's arm makes contact. Bad discipline by Randle, giving an easily avoidable foul. 2 free throws.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=340&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(M.Lindsay)

McDaniels makes hip to hip contact and bumps Shai out of bounds. Side out.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=342&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Edwards%20P.FOUL%20(P2.PN)%20(M.Lindsay)

This is the inbound from the previous McDaniels foul. At the start of this clip Shai is on the ground and Ant is standing over him. Don't really have any issue with this, but if it had spiraled in to something that the refs reviewed Ant would have been putting himself at risk of a second tech by standing and lingering over the top of the grounded player. The crowd is already reacting because they think Ant ran over the top of Shai to put him on the ground in the first place. What actually happened is Shai tripped on McDaniels foot (McDaniels was trying to shoulder check him with a leaning screen, but the foot Shai tripped on wasn't moving). Ant ends up running in to the back of an already falling Shai. The actual foul called is a very dumb one by Ant who two hand shoves Shai right in front of the ref for no reason???? 2 free throws because of the bonus.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=386&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Edwards%20L.B.FOUL%20(P3.T1)%20(T.Ford)

Hartenstein gets the steal on Ant. Hartenstein gets ball/hand first but by the time the ball is dislodged he is on Ant's wrist, so probably should be a foul on Hartenstein. Not the easiest call to make though because the first contact looked clean. Shai gets to the ball before Ant who happens to knock Shai to the ground and land on top of him while going after the ball. No ill intent. Side out.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=412&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20S.FOUL%20(P4.T3)%20(T.Ford)

Shai drives on McDaniels. Shai stops on a dime to go for a stepback. McDaniels tries to stop and puts his foot in the wrong place (Behind Shai's heel). Shai does the step back inevitably getting caught on McDaniels misplaced foot. Shai gets the continuation. And 1. Clearly a foul, but bad luck McDaniels.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=470&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=DiVincenzo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T4)%20(J.Capers)

Wrap around foul on Donte. Side out.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=485&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Instant%20Replay3rd%20Period%20(10%3A27%20PM%20EST)

Shai drives between two defenders and loses balance of his own accord. Refs make a clear wrong call that the Timberwolves challenge. It is overturned.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=509&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=Edwards%20S.FOUL%20(P4.PN)%20(M.Lindsay)

Ant starts guarding Shai at the logo. Shai wrongfoots Ant with a fake, and takes the newly open driving lane. Ant tries to recover, but knocks Shai off his line as he is driving to the hoop. Shai can sense the contact coming and rises in to a shot. And 1.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=614&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20S.FOUL%20(P5.T2)%20(M.Lindsay)

Randle loses the ball. After a couple of passes in transition Shai ends up with the ball. Shai gets a half step ahead of McDaniels and is driving to the hoop. A beaten McDaniels runs in to the back of him, knocking him to the ground. Shai hits a circus shot on the way down. And 1.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=637&GameID=0042400311&Season=2024-25&flag=1&title=McDaniels%20S.FOUL%20(P6.T3)%20(J.Capers)

McDaniels guarding Shai. Shai is putting the moves on him. Shai goes for the drive and McDaniels moves with him but then hesitates. McDaniels realizes he is beaten and grabs Shai's arm with both hands. Shai rises in to a shot. 2 free throws, and McDaniels fouls out.

I'm not a ref so for any actual refs we have here reading, correct me where I am wrong.

Half of those are marginal contacts for other players. If i didnt have life and could clip thunder games vs Nuggets and this one today, i could find 10 fouls per game at least that are worse then those contacts and are not called on okc players.

Exactly!!!
Caruso and Dort grab and slap all the damn time an no calls.

[NBA_is_cringe]

The criticism isn’t that he doesn’t get fouled, it’s that he plays the game to get fouled.

This is the fairest version of the argument, that it's a distaste for the aesthetics of his game, not that calls are actually being missed. I am far more sympathetic to that than some grand conspiracy that the officials are rigging games for OKC for some reason.

they’re rigging games for okc so they can market sga as a superstar since superstars are what make the nba the most money. they can’t do this for edwards because its much harder to make people believe edwards is the best player in the nba and also his team isnt as good so he doesn’t have the mvp thing going for him already

[Phish Tank]

look if SGA's gonna draw these ticky tack fouls as it is, bring a 15th guy to kick him in the nuts.

[Woodsanity]

Well and 1 for the receipts but how many of those fouls wouldn't even be called if it happened to other players? A lot of those fouls are marginal contact. How often do OKC players get away with far worse with no call?

[DrModesty]

I think okc and shai fans are missing the point.

It’s the unnatural flailing of the heads and throwing himself to the ground. There is marginal contact on almost every possession of playoff basketball and far more egregious contact was allowed with other stars so far this playoffs.

I want to like shai and okc and am neutral in the series but floppers are not going to get respect, even if it’s legal.

Honestly in European basketball they would just waved play-on for half the fouls the previous poster showed.

yep, exactly. shai initiates the contact and starts falling immidiately. it's flopping 101. any contact that happened there from mcdaniels is pretty much incidential and didn't change anything in terms of shai wanted to do

Shai does not initiate this contact...

If someone wants to argue it's incidental or that Shai exaggerated a bit...I don't see much need to argue. I"m not sure either is true but that's reasonable. But he was clearly trying to go past and was touched/tripped.

Agreed. It is clear that McDaniels initiates the contact. Shai has beaten him to the spot and is cutting to the hoop in front of McDaniels, not in to him.

As far as whether it is a flop or not, I will argue it. It isn't a flop. Because McDaniels was beaten to the spot, he ends up running in to the back of Shai. On the second camera angle which is behind the play, we can see that McDaniels oblique connects with the back of Shai's arm (which is tight to his torso, meaning a large amount of the force of the contact is transferred directly from arm to body). His thigh also connects with Shai's hip. Shai only has one foot on the ground when contact occurs (because he is running), so he has a very weak base to absorb contact with. The contact inevitably redirects Shai in to the direction that McDaniels body was moving when he made the contact. It isn't helping McDaniels that he also puts his hand on Shai's arm (which we see in the first camera angle), dampening his forward momentum a little, which in turn diminishes Shai's resistance to the other contact McDaniels made. It isn't like McDaniels fully trucked him like a t-bone car crash or anything, but the physics of the play are pretty obvious with these camera angles.

It is only because Shai has superb body control that he manages to get an effective shot up before he hits the ground. Doris can see it, and it is why she is amazed with the play. She also correctly points out the contact on that second camera angle, and that it is what caused him to lose his balance.

[dhsilv2]

yep, exactly. shai initiates the contact and starts falling immidiately. it's flopping 101. any contact that happened there from mcdaniels is pretty much incidential and didn't change anything in terms of shai wanted to do

Shai does not initiate this contact...

If someone wants to argue it's incidental or that Shai exaggerated a bit...I don't see much need to argue. I"m not sure either is true but that's reasonable. But he was clearly trying to go past and was touched/tripped.

Agreed. It is clear that McDaniels initiates the contact. Shai has beaten him to the spot and is cutting to the hoop in front of McDaniels, not in to him.

As far as whether it is a flop or not, I will argue it. It isn't a flop. Because McDaniels was beaten to the spot, he ends up running in to the back of Shai. On the second camera angle which is behind the play, we can see that McDaniels oblique connects with the back of Shai's arm (which is tight to his torso, meaning a large amount of the force of the contact is transferred directly from arm to body). His thigh also connects with Shai's hip. Shai only has one foot on the ground when contact occurs (because he is running), so he has a very weak base to absorb contact with. The contact inevitably redirects Shai in to the direction that McDaniels body was moving when he made the contact. It isn't helping McDaniels that he also puts his hand on Shai's arm (which we see in the first camera angle), dampening his forward momentum a little, which in turn diminishes Shai's resistance to the other contact McDaniels made. It isn't like McDaniels fully trucked him like a t-bone car crash or anything, but the physics of the play are pretty obvious with these camera angles.

It is only because Shai has superb body control that he manages to get an effective shot up before he hits the ground. Doris can see it, and it is why she is amazed with the play. She also correctly points out the contact on that second camera angle, and that it is what caused him to lose his balance.

Agree. I think the compression we see on his shoe also indicates pretty strongly that there was force transferred. All that said, I don't want to argue over that aspect. I'm ok with some disagreement with others on that. But it's kinda wild to say Shai caused this. The only way you can say he "caused it" is by saying he doesn't move vertically to the basket as fast as other greats. And that's true, his game is horizontal vs vertical...but that's not his fault. It's just what works for his weird build.

[AbeVigodaLive]

The last couple of posts is why this topic has legs.

1. If you look ever so slightly at here or here and then look into the glowing haze of the midnight moon on the latitudinal plane and imagine this and then check out this angle of the Zapruder film... you can see the contact!

2. Then why isn't it called when it happens to A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H... et al?

Both things can be true.

SGA is a gifted supremely talented athlete. He can do things nobody else can do. He also flops intentionally and flamboyantly after the most marginal contact with the clear intent of tricking officials into calling a foul. Both things can be true.

I don't see why this is all that difficult... even if someone is an SGA or OKC fan. It's ok to say (a) he's a deserving MVP, and (b) he's a foul grifter, which compromises the aesthetics and enjoyment (and possibly even integrity) of the game.

If that's what we want as NBA fans... cool. We'll adjust. Heck, we've seen it happen on the political stage. If it's what the people want... so be it.

But is this grifting really what most NBA fans want? Or, only fans of that team and player?

[CobraCommander]

The last couple of posts is why this topic has legs.

1. If you look ever so slightly at here or here and then look into the glowing haze of the midnight moon on the latitudinal plane and imagine this and then check out this angle of the Zapruder film... you can see the contact!

2. Then why isn't it called when it happens to A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H... et al?

Both things can be true.

SGA is a gifted supremely talented athlete. He can do things nobody else can do. He also flops intentionally and flamboyantly after the most marginal contact with the clear intent of tricking officials into calling a foul. Both things can be true.

I don't see why this is all that difficult... even if someone is an SGA or OKC fan. It's ok to say (a) he's a deserving MVP, and (b) he's a foul grifter, which compromises the aesthetics and enjoyment (and possibly even integrity) of the game.

If that's what we want as NBA fans... cool. We'll adjust. Heck, we've seen it happen on the political stage. If it's what the people want... so be it.

But is this grifting really what most NBA fans want? Or, only fans of that team and player?

name the player that doesn't search for every possible advantage within the rules AND ill show you someone who isn't that good...

SGA is playing the game at the highest level and he is doing it the RIGHT way...how do I know its the right way?



he has the hardware to prove it now...he was rewarded for his game and crowned the MOST VALUEABLE PLAYER.

as famously said once by King Vegeta in the throne room on planet Vegeta to his son, also named Vegeta..."dont hate the player, hate the game"