2025 NBA Draft Thread, part 1 – Capture the Flagg

[Smart2Nesmith43]

[
I respect the optimism of all 3 of these posts, but I also think there is a lack of accepting the major flaws this team has, and the recurring heartbreak because of them. Yes we won last year, but we also caught a lot of luck which no one will deny. We have had some horrific playoff loses, and embarrassing playoff series.

We aren't Bucks level, but we have been upset in 3 of the last 4 playoffs, and in the most heartbreaking way, by teams we should have beat. All the series have looked the same with horrible iso ball, mediocre coaching schemes, lack of rebounding, and playing with no heart. We are a team that is known more for its choke jobs than it's actual finals appearances. We are a team that on one hand will be talked about our success, but on the other how we always play down to our competition. Simmons was talking about it the other day, we have some of the worst playoff games in the modern era since we started forming this group in 2017. Since getting upset by a team that started Dragic, Robinson, and Crowder in 2020 we really haven't had a solid year outside of last year...

We have blamed Kyrie, Morris, Hayward, Brad losing the team, and Marcus Smart for all these problems over this run, and yet here we are in 2025, still complaining about the same things over and over. I'm not saying blow it up, but i'm also not going to act like every guy on this team should be a Celtic lifer, and at some point the fundamental issues of this team HAVE to get addressed.

This team needs rebounding and shot blocking
This team needs playmaking from the guard position
This team needs a 3/4 wing off the bench
This team needs more ball movement
This team needs to play inside the 3pnt line
This team needs to stop settling at the end of quarters.
This team needs some guys with toughness and no quit in them

(I'm starting to understand the moves Danny made like Morris, Thompson and Kemba way more now.)

We aren't getting any of that from this group, so with Tatum hurt and the tax implications, its time to take the green glasses off for a lot of people and I pray to god Brad isn't looking at our horrific loses at home in the ECF in 2020, .500 year in 21, the horrific finals in 22, historic upset in 23, and complete smackdown in 2025 and thinking "wow this team is one piece away." I get it will never be smooth with this group or team as long as we run everything through 2 wings with limited ball skills, but the Jays arent 20 anymore, they are closer to 30 now. The future idealism that still permeates through this team needs to die, and present realism needs to take over. Before we know it these guys window will be closed, and we'll still have posters making excuses and blaming people like Brad and Marcus for the shortcomings of the Jays when we really just need the front office to make the necessary moves, what ever those might be.

I like the optimism, but also think we need to be objective with how mediocre this team has been outside of last year, and that realistic and appropriate changes need to be made

First of all, in this new CBA, nobody is going to have a perfect team and you are going to be flawed in some aspect. Even OKC lacks high end secondary shot creation. So having a couple issues isn't a reason to blow up a team. Second there's just a lot of blatant lies there.

This team needs rebounding
Celtics were 7th in defensive rebouding percentage this season and last season. Not elite but certainly not a weakness.

This team needs shot blocking
The Celtics were 1st in blocks per game last season and 4th this year. They were 3rd in lowest field goal percentage allowed within 5 feet last year and they were 3rd again this year. The rim protection has been elite for a couple seasons.

This team needs a 3/4 wing off the bench
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hausesa01.html

This team needs more ball movement
Ok but don't come moaning when they throw the ball all over the court. Celtics had the lowest turnover percentage in the league last year and second lowest this year. The two years before Mazzulla got here and they were "moving" the ball, they were 13th and 18th. There's a reason Mazzulla runs his system and it's not to aggravate realGM posters.

This team needs some guys with toughness and no quit in them
I don't know how you reached that conclusion. A soft team doesn't come back from 3-2 down against the defending champ in 2022, it rolls over. A soft team doesn't go in Miami and win a game 7 on the road,it rolls over. A soft team doesn't battle back from 3-2 down against the Sixers in 2023, it rolls over. A soft team doesn't force a game 7 after being down 0-3, it rolls over. A soft team doesn't lose their best player to a traumatic injury while going down 3-1 and dominates the next game, it rolls over. A soft player doesn't play through a broken wrist and dislocated shoulder (Tatum). A soft player doesn't play through a meniscus tear (Brown). A soft player doesn't have the most game 7s wins in NBA history outside of Bill Russell and Sam Jones (Horford). Etc. It's not a toughness issue it's a skills issue.

[Hal14]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vRrcBaHf7q8

KOC said on NBC SPORTS BOSTON that the teams rank the players they want to talk to, and that based on those teams rankings the NBA then assigns interviews. It's not random at all, if thats what Clutchpoints Brett Siegel was implying

KOC also specifically says Celtics ranked 3 lottery prospects highly in their rankings
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Tre Johnson
3. Asa Newell

...and C's talked to all 3 during the combine.

Hal, who is Brett Seigel whose tweet you've quoted. Is Brett Seigel saying there are 70 players who go through combine testing and each team is randomly assigned 13 prospects to interview?

If that's what he's saying ... I doubt that's correct

Yes, that's correct.

They probably do that so it's fair for all of the prospects and all of the teams.

NBA teams can control which prospects they bring into their own building for private pre-draft workouts (where they also interview the prospects when they bring them in). But the combine is an NBA event, put on by the NBA at a facility that is not owned by any NBA team. So the 30 NBA teams show up and get to talk to only the prospects who the NBA assigns them.

Brett is an NBA reporter/inside for Clutchpoints with a blue check mark and over 20K twitter followers. He's not Shams but he's in the know, has contacts/sources within the league and for various teams..

Cool.

Just talking to them, doing an interview at the combine doesn't signal much to me.

If we actually bring those guys into our facility for a pre-draft workout, that's a whole different story.

Last year we worked out 40 prospects before the draft. We drafted 2 of them. And obviously, if you're bringing a prospect into your facility and working them out, you're going to also interview them while they are there.

Putting 2 and 2 together, having a prospect in for a workout + interview at our facility = much stronger interest than just an interview at the combine.

Seems like the 40 guys we bring in for workouts are the ones we are *really* interested in. Then for the interviews at the combine, we're just interviewing a guy there but not actually working them out..so with those prospects, there's probably not much interest there. It's moreso just making connections, building relationships with the player and gathering intel on them which can be used down the line if we're game planning against them or considering trying to acquire them via trade/free agency like 4+ yrs from now.

[Larry_Russell]

All that being said, sometimes a prospect comes along that there is no need to work out.

Feel pretty strongly that Cooper falls into that category of player.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

Good to see you posting again. Great post.

People want to blow up this team. No loyalty. That's why I said a few posts ago that I'm glad none of these posters are the GM of the Celtics. I say that with love and respect. Leave it to Brad. He will put this team in a position to get back to the top, not rebuild. It's not going to be easy, but it can be done.

It's easy to blow up a team, it's much harder to build it back up. People should look at the Pacers, back to back ECF and probably on their way to the finals and they haven't had a top 5 picks in decades. You don't need tank if your GM does their job properly. Call me crazy but I'd rather have a good team that's a move away from a championship than a bad one that's five moves away. Because in my opinion it's a lot easier to hit on one move than five.

I agree to some extent. But I also feel like the Pacers are a bit of an outlier. If we look at teams in recent years who went from the lottery to turn their franchise around for the better, pretty much all of them had top 5 picks in multiple drafts - Orlando, OKC, Houston, Detroit, Cleveland, etc. Kings made the playoffs for the 1st time in like 25 years after drafting Keegan Murray with the 4th pick. Celtics turned their franchise around with 2 top 5 picks (Tatum, Brown) and Smart who was the 6th pick.

Grizzlies turned their franchise around by drafting JJJ 4th pick and then Ja 2nd pick the next year.

So that's 7 teams who turned their franchise around w/ top 5 picks. Pacers are 1 team that did it without a top 5 pick. And they drafted mathurin (6th pick), Jarace Walker (8th pick) so that's 2 picks in the 6-8 range. And it's not like they just turned their franchise around with just 1 move, like you're saying. It was a collection of moves:

-Trading Brogdon for Nesmith
-Trading Sabonis for Haliburton
-Sign Bruce Brown
-Trade Brown for Siakam
-Draft Nembhard
-Sign Toppin
-Draft Mathurin and Walker and Sheppard
-Extend McConnell and keep Turner around, even when there was tons of trade rumors around him
-Extend Nesmith

That's a lot of moves and they still haven't gotten past the conference finals. To win a title, it takes *a lot* of moves, a bit of luck and you typically need a top 5 player in the league to do it.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I never said the Pacers were built with one move. I'm saying they keep themselves competitive every year and when the right trade presents itself they'll be in position to win a championship (might already be there with Siakam although I suspect they won't have enough in the finals).

A better example might be the Lowry Raptors. The tear down artists around here would have destroyed that core a million times if given the opportunities and instead Ujiri staid patient, kept fielding competitive teams and when the right deal arrived, he pulled the trigger and they won a championship. Or the Spurs after 2007, they were called too old literally every year but they kept the core and when they made the right draft night deal, it resurrected their dynasty. Or the Pistons in 2004 with Rasheed Wallace. Etc. Hell even these Celtics qualify. There were numerous calls to break up the core around 2021 but they stuck the course found the right deals to add White and Holiday to a talented core and they got over the hump.

Right now the Celtics have top 5 and a top 20ish player in the league and are trying to find the right mix of role players around them. For all that went wrong this year, all they need is one move this summer that goes really right and they are back in the thick of things. To me that's seems a lot easier in terms of team building than tearing everything down so we can try to draft a top 5 and top 20ish player (if we get lucky in the lottery and pick the right dudes and they develop properly) and then worry about finding the right role players around them because we shipped them all out during the tear down (i.e. take years to be back to where we are right now if the front office nails a ton of moves and gets a lot of luck along the way). If the team has run its course because the stars are old or can't stand each other any more that's a different discussion but we aren't there yet. You don't break up a team this good unless you have to.

[Hal14]

All that being said, sometimes a prospect comes along that there is no need to work out.

Feel pretty strongly that Cooper falls into that category of player.

Sure, but he's going to be a Maverick.

There's like a 0.01 % chance he suits up on opening night for a team other than Dallas. And a 0.0001% chance that he suits up on Opening night for Boston.

I'm sure they interviewed him at the combine just for networking, relationship building, gathering intel.

[hugepatsfan]

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

[Hal14]

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

Yeah I agree.

I could see them moving off 1 of these picks to collect some future 2nd rounders.

Draft 1 guy you like and sign another guy as an UDFA (how we initially got Hauser)..

[brackdan70]

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

Yeah I agree.

I could see them moving off 1 of these picks to collect some future 2nd rounders.

Draft 1 guy you like and sign another guy as an UDFA (how we initially got Hauser)..

Yeah….depending on situation the first round rookie scale is a big difference to a 2nd rounder or UDFA signed at the minimum.
I’d look at trading 28 for couple to a few future seconds….a 2026 one might be nice they may need roster able rookie minimum dudes…also looks like a deep draft in my estimation.
I think we can get an NBA player at 32 so I’d like to keep that one.

[djFan71]

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

Yeah I agree.

I could see them moving off 1 of these picks to collect some future 2nd rounders.

Draft 1 guy you like and sign another guy as an UDFA (how we initially got Hauser)..

Yeah….depending on situation the first round rookie scale is a big difference to a 2nd rounder or UDFA signed at the minimum.
I’d look at trading 28 for couple to a few future seconds….a 2026 one might be nice they may need roster able rookie minimum dudes…also looks like a deep draft in my estimation.
I think we can get an NBA player at 32 so I’d like to keep that one.

I half agree cuz I love a good trade back to a boatload of 2nds for future trades. But, I also feel like 26-28 is where this draft tails off. I think by32 guys I hope last til 28 will be gone and we’re on to the next tier down.

[redslastlaugh]

If all the draft prospects stay in past withdrawal deadline, #28 and #32 are gonna have nice value imo. They're at the sweetspot of the draft where good scouting teams can take a shot to find a starter/rotation guy and get them 4yrs at peanuts against the cap. Memphis feasted with Bane and Santi in this range.

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

[165bows]

Wouldn't surprise me if they trade #28 and/or #32 for a bunch of future 2nds like they did a couple years ago. They're going to need to make some cost cutting trades and those future 2nds will help facilitate.

Yeah I agree.

I could see them moving off 1 of these picks to collect some future 2nd rounders.

Draft 1 guy you like and sign another guy as an UDFA (how we initially got Hauser)..

Good year for them to have a couple of seconds imo.

[Hal14]

Yeah I agree.

I could see them moving off 1 of these picks to collect some future 2nd rounders.

Draft 1 guy you like and sign another guy as an UDFA (how we initially got Hauser)..

Yeah….depending on situation the first round rookie scale is a big difference to a 2nd rounder or UDFA signed at the minimum.
I’d look at trading 28 for couple to a few future seconds….a 2026 one might be nice they may need roster able rookie minimum dudes…also looks like a deep draft in my estimation.
I think we can get an NBA player at 32 so I’d like to keep that one.

I half agree cuz I love a good trade back to a boatload of 2nds for future trades. But, I also feel like 26-28 is where this draft tails off. I think by32 guys I hope last til 28 will be gone and we’re on to the next tier down.

There's always guys who slip in the draft, though. I can pretty much guarantee that whoever the 28 guys you have in the top 28 on your board will not be the exact top 28 guys picked in this draft. At least 3 of them will slip..probably 1 or even 2 of them will still be there in the 40's or even 50s. It happens every year.

Also, FWIW on my personal big board I'd say there's maybe a dropoff around 31 or 32. But then the next few guys in that 33-38 range are not very far off..like it's a dropoff there but not a huge one.

Factor in a few guys who will slip in the draft and I think you could get a solid player in the 36-44 range. Which is about what it is for most other drafts - the 45-60 range usually has a very low hit rate - especially 50-60 range. But even then, there's exceptions like Sam Merrill, Isaiah Thomas and Tryce Jackson-davis in the 50's. Plus plenty of UDFA gems over the years like Hauser, Austin Reaves, Kornet, VanVleet, Caruso, Duncan Robinson, Strus, Caleb Martin, etc.

Obviously you've got better odds in the 28-33 range. But there's definitely hidden gems you can find later in the draft and UDFA with good scouting and player development.

[djFan71]

Yeah….depending on situation the first round rookie scale is a big difference to a 2nd rounder or UDFA signed at the minimum.
I’d look at trading 28 for couple to a few future seconds….a 2026 one might be nice they may need roster able rookie minimum dudes…also looks like a deep draft in my estimation.
I think we can get an NBA player at 32 so I’d like to keep that one.

I half agree cuz I love a good trade back to a boatload of 2nds for future trades. But, I also feel like 26-28 is where this draft tails off. I think by32 guys I hope last til 28 will be gone and we’re on to the next tier down.

There's always guys who slip in the draft, though. I can pretty much guarantee that whoever the 28 guys you have in the top 28 on your board will not be the exact top 28 guys picked in this draft. At least 3 of them will slip..probably 1 or even 2 of them will still be there in the 40's or even 50s. It happens every year.

Also, FWIW on my personal big board I'd say there's maybe a dropoff around 31 or 32. But then the next few guys in that 33-38 range are not very far off..like it's a dropoff there but not a huge one.

Factor in a few guys who will slip in the draft and I think you could get a solid player in the 36-44 range. Which is about what it is for most other drafts - the 45-60 range usually has a very low hit rate - especially 50-60 range. But even then, there's exceptions like Sam Merrill, Isaiah Thomas and Tryce Jackson-davis in the 50's. Plus plenty of UDFA gems over the years like Hauser, Austin Reaves, Kornet, VanVleet, Caruso, Duncan Robinson, Strus, Caleb Martin, etc.

Obviously you've got better odds in the 28-33 range. But there's definitely hidden gems you can find later in the draft and UDFA with good scouting and player development.

Sure, that’s a lot of standard how the draft works words. My board is probably around 18-20 with a bunch of other guys not on it that are mocked higher that I hope stay there. Then another tier down of guys I like but don’t pine for.

[165bows]

You guys prob mentioned this but man Cedric Coward's measurements are pretty wild.

7'2" wingspan with an 8'10" standing reach, that's like really good PF length in a SG body.

[djFan71]

You guys prob mentioned this but man Cedric Coward's measurements are pretty wild.

7'2" wingspan with an 8'10" standing reach, that's like really good PF length in a SG body.

Yeah, that’s what’s getting him Kawhi comps.

[165bows]

You guys prob mentioned this but man Cedric Coward's measurements are pretty wild.

7'2" wingspan with an 8'10" standing reach, that's like really good PF length in a SG body.

Yeah, that’s what’s getting him Kawhi comps.

There was a certain english on the phrase when Brad mentioned all possibilities at the draft, even saying "we could move up"

[brackdan70]

When do guys have to commit to stay in the draft?

[brackdan70]

Anyone have a list of guys the Celtics have worked out?

[gammajamma]

When do guys have to commit to stay in the draft?

Pretty sure it’s June 15

[Hal14]

When do guys have to commit to stay in the draft?

Pretty sure it’s June 15

It's JUne 15 for international players.

But for players who wish to withdraw and have eligibility to play college ball, it's May 28.