2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 7

[mademan]

Coward measures out with real SF size . With his effeciency and maturity, he's one of the few i see as a floor as a starter unless things go horribly wrong. 70 TS% from a wing putting up 5 threes a game is absolutely wild

The 70 ts% is based on 6 games

He was 68 TS% the year prior through 32 games

[mtcan]

Like I said, we’re average people so this is maturity for us. For a pro athlete, not so much.

Nah...no difference. Whether you are a surgeon, an athlete, a lawyer, a CEO...it's all the same. Human beings with high pressure jobs...and I know enough people that are the best at what they do but constantly feel the need to get better because they don't feel they are good enough yet.

I disagree. It’s only a positive trait for average people like us.

You can repeat the same line again and again...doesn't make it any more true.

As stated above...guys like Kobe also doubted himself...self doubt is a positive motivator. Face it...if Coward truly let his self doubt get the better of him...he wouldn't be considered a first round pick coming up from a D3 school. It pushes him to be better. I get it that maybe you don't operate like that but a lot of high performers do. Nothing wrong with an athlete believing that if it pushes him to be the best.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Coward measures out with real SF size . With his effeciency and maturity, he's one of the few i see as a floor as a starter unless things go horribly wrong. 70 TS% from a wing putting up 5 threes a game is absolutely wild

The 70 ts% is based on 6 games

He was 68 TS% the year prior through 32 games

True, and 74% a year earlier in 34 games. Although, his first two seasons in college were against inferior competition. It would’ve been nice to see how he did at Duke.

[nowayguy]

I still haven't had the time to look into Coward. People are calling him this years Jalen Williams but every Jalen highlight from college was him with the ball in his hands, cooking people on the perimeter and dunking all over everyone. From what I'm hearing about Coward he was more of a 3+D guy in college even if he was very efficient at it.

Anyways I guess my point is, he's no Jalen Williams if he can't create with the ball. Maybe he's more of a Nesmith? Does this guy have creation upside or not? What do you think?

His handle looks competent and he's able to get to his spots with the ball in his hands. It doesn't look super high-level but he was able to create space off the dribble.

The reality is that he'll be 22 when the season starts and he has limited appearances against good competition. The only way the Raptors pick him is if he looks incredible in private workouts. I'd be pretty excited if his name was called because that probably means he was by far the best prospect they worked out.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Nah...no difference. Whether you are a surgeon, an athlete, a lawyer, a CEO...it's all the same. Human beings with high pressure jobs...and I know enough people that are the best at what they do but constantly feel the need to get better because they don't feel they are good enough yet.

I disagree. It’s only a positive trait for average people like us.

You can repeat the same line again and again...doesn't make it any more true.

I can say the same about you. This is an opinion based discussion. I am entitled to mine, as you are to yours. I prefer my athletes not to have such strong self doubt. It is what it is.

[JCP11]

Here you go.

Watch on YouTube

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I don't understand people ranking Jase a full round ahead of Pettiford after watching him play. I just don't see where that gap is.

To me it mostly seems like people can see Jalen Brunson type things in Jase. Pettiford gives me Brandon Jennings vibes. Jase was also ridiculously efficient, with a very high free throw rate. I could see both end up being picked in the teens. They are both nice players, but at that size you have to be sooooo good offensively because people are just going to try and body you, even if they are dogs on D, weight and strength is going to limit them for at least a few years. So Jase being so efficient might point to him being good enough to overcome the fact he will be targeted.

Thank you for your comments, i've been waiting a while for some type of explanation and you're the first to give something of substance. I can see the link to Brunson except Jase needs to get bigger to eventually be a starter. Jase seems moreof a SG with some PG skills than a true PG while Pettiford is flat out a PG that can run your offense and direct traffic . I like Pettiford's game more but you can't be a starter in this league at 6'1 168 lbs, that would be my only reason to put Jase in front of Tahaad.

[mtcan]

I disagree. It’s only a positive trait for average people like us.

You can repeat the same line again and again...doesn't make it any more true.

I can say the same about you. This is an opinion based discussion. I am entitled to mine, as you are to yours. I prefer my athletes not to have such strong self doubt. It is what it is.

Self doubt is exactly what gets guys in the gym and working on their game in the offseason. The guy who is full of himself like Ben Simmons is chilling and playing Call of Duty in the summer while his peers are improving themselves. That is the essence of not believing you are good enough yet. So ya athletes may not say it out loud but if you see them working hard in the offseason...that's self doubt pushing them. Just because a guy verbalizes it doesn't make him any less competitive or mature.

And yes...I can do this all day.

[Johnston]

This seems like self doubt to me. A guy who can get into his own head and destroy his own confidence. Pro athletes need to be almost ignorant to their shortcomings.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
- Wayne Gretzky

You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them."
- Michael Jordan

"Believe in yourself. Even if you don't, pretend that you do, and, at some point, you will."
- Venus Williams

"To be a great champion, you must believe you are the best. If you're not, pretend you are."
- Muhammad Ali

"I don't believe you have to be better than everybody else. I believe you have to be better than you ever thought you could be."
- Ken Venturi

"I've always been a firm believer in mind over matter. If you don't believe you can achieve it, your body will start to believe this and you'll be stuck."
- Sheryl Swoopes

"If you do not believe you can do it then you have no chance at all."
- Arsene Wenger

You guys are confusing self doubt with self awareness.

[PhilBlackson]

I don't understand people ranking Jase a full round ahead of Pettiford after watching him play. I just don't see where that gap is.

To me it mostly seems like people can see Jalen Brunson type things in Jase. Pettiford gives me Brandon Jennings vibes. Jase was also ridiculously efficient, with a very high free throw rate. I could see both end up being picked in the teens. They are both nice players, but at that size you have to be sooooo good offensively because people are just going to try and body you, even if they are dogs on D, weight and strength is going to limit them for at least a few years. So Jase being so efficient might point to him being good enough to overcome the fact he will be targeted.

Thank you for your comments, i've been waiting a while for some type of explanation and you're the first to give something of substance. I can see the link to Brunson except Jase needs to get bigger to eventually be a starter. Jase seems moreof a SG with some PG skills than a true PG while Pettiford is flat out a PG that can run your offense and direct traffic . I like Pettiford's game more but you can't be a starter in this league at 6'1 168 lbs, that would be my only reason to put Jase in front of Tahaad.

Jase is only 6’1.5 (6’6 wingspan) 178 lbs…those 10 pounds change everything?! lol

I’ll repeat he’s SMALLER than Quickley (6’3 w/ 6’8 wingspan). He’s pretty tiny himself.

[BoyzNTheHood]

You can repeat the same line again and again...doesn't make it any more true.

I can say the same about you. This is an opinion based discussion. I am entitled to mine, as you are to yours. I prefer my athletes not to have such strong self doubt. It is what it is.

Self doubt is exactly what gets guys in the gym and working on their game in the offseason. The guy who is full of himself like Ben Simmons is chilling and playing Call of Duty in the summer while his peers are improving themselves. That is the essence of not believing you are good enough yet. So ya athletes may not say it out loud but if you see them working hard in the offseason...that's self doubt pushing them. Just because a guy verbalizes it doesn't make him any less competitive or mature.

And yes...I can do this all day.

Clearly, Captain America. Your opinion is your opinion. The fact that I disagree is not an issue to anyone but you and the other know it all in here.

Self preservation, a strong work ethic, and the want to get better all get you in the gym. Keep doubting yourself and sooner or later someone will make you believe in it.

[RoteSchroder]

Coward measures out with real SF size . With his effeciency and maturity, he's one of the few i see as a floor as a starter unless things go horribly wrong. 70 TS% from a wing putting up 5 threes a game is absolutely wild

The 70 ts% is based on 6 games

He was 68 TS% the year prior through 32 games

The assists and defensive stats may be misleading based on his previous year. Looks to be all-round efficient though.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
- Wayne Gretzky

You have to expect things of yourself before you can do them."
- Michael Jordan

"Believe in yourself. Even if you don't, pretend that you do, and, at some point, you will."
- Venus Williams

"To be a great champion, you must believe you are the best. If you're not, pretend you are."
- Muhammad Ali

"I don't believe you have to be better than everybody else. I believe you have to be better than you ever thought you could be."
- Ken Venturi

"I've always been a firm believer in mind over matter. If you don't believe you can achieve it, your body will start to believe this and you'll be stuck."
- Sheryl Swoopes

"If you do not believe you can do it then you have no chance at all."
- Arsene Wenger

You guys are confusing self doubt with self awareness.

A bunch of them are on PED's which also helps

[mtcan]

I can say the same about you. This is an opinion based discussion. I am entitled to mine, as you are to yours. I prefer my athletes not to have such strong self doubt. It is what it is.

Self doubt is exactly what gets guys in the gym and working on their game in the offseason. The guy who is full of himself like Ben Simmons is chilling and playing Call of Duty in the summer while his peers are improving themselves. That is the essence of not believing you are good enough yet. So ya athletes may not say it out loud but if you see them working hard in the offseason...that's self doubt pushing them. Just because a guy verbalizes it doesn't make him any less competitive or mature.

And yes...I can do this all day.

Clearly, Captain America. Your opinion is your opinion. The fact that I disagree is not an issue to anyone but you and the other know it all in here.

Self preservation, a strong work ethic, and the want to get better all get you in the gym. Keep doubting yourself and sooner or later someone will make you believe in it.

Self preservation is exactly what I'm talking about. The feeling that you need to get better to keep and excel at your job. There is an element of self doubt there that pushes you to work harder. It's not about feeling down and wanting to quit...it's exact opposite.

[Mark_83]

I still haven't had the time to look into Coward. People are calling him this years Jalen Williams but every Jalen highlight from college was him with the ball in his hands, cooking people on the perimeter and dunking all over everyone. From what I'm hearing about Coward he was more of a 3+D guy in college even if he was very efficient at it.

Anyways I guess my point is, he's no Jalen Williams if he can't create with the ball. Maybe he's more of a Nesmith? Does this guy have creation upside or not? What do you think?

I don't think people are comparing him to Jalen Williams because of playing style. There's much better comparisons for that. The comparison is on his being a relatively recent small school player who is having a meteoric rise in the draft rankings following an impressive combine.

[BoyzNTheHood]

Self doubt is exactly what gets guys in the gym and working on their game in the offseason. The guy who is full of himself like Ben Simmons is chilling and playing Call of Duty in the summer while his peers are improving themselves. That is the essence of not believing you are good enough yet. So ya athletes may not say it out loud but if you see them working hard in the offseason...that's self doubt pushing them. Just because a guy verbalizes it doesn't make him any less competitive or mature.

And yes...I can do this all day.

Clearly, Captain America. Your opinion is your opinion. The fact that I disagree is not an issue to anyone but you and the other know it all in here.

Self preservation, a strong work ethic, and the want to get better all get you in the gym. Keep doubting yourself and sooner or later someone will make you believe in it.

Self preservation is exactly what I'm talking about. The feeling that you need to get better to keep and excel at your job. There is an element of self doubt there that pushes you to work harder. It's not about feeling down and wanting to quit...it's exact opposite.

Being content in your skill set like a Ben Simmons who you mentioned is worse than what Coward said, but I’m never going to be on board with a guy saying “you are not as good as you think” unless he’s saying it to his opponent as he blows by them.

[TNRaps4life]

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[mtcan]

Clearly, Captain America. Your opinion is your opinion. The fact that I disagree is not an issue to anyone but you and the other know it all in here.

Self preservation, a strong work ethic, and the want to get better all get you in the gym. Keep doubting yourself and sooner or later someone will make you believe in it.

Self preservation is exactly what I'm talking about. The feeling that you need to get better to keep and excel at your job. There is an element of self doubt there that pushes you to work harder. It's not about feeling down and wanting to quit...it's exact opposite.

Being content in your skill set like a Ben Simmons who you mentioned is worse than what Coward said, but I’m never going to be on board with a guy saying “you are not as good as you think” unless he’s saying it to his opponent as he blows by them.

It's totally normal to go from high school to college then to the NBA and have that "welcome to the next level moment" when you realize you are no longer a big fish in a small pond. It happens to the best players. Most if not all of these draftees will have that moment in their rookie seasons. That is totally normal. It is just reality. The question is...what do you take from that moment? Do you curl up in a ball and cry? Or do you work harder to make sure that doesn't happen again?

[BoyzNTheHood]

Self preservation is exactly what I'm talking about. The feeling that you need to get better to keep and excel at your job. There is an element of self doubt there that pushes you to work harder. It's not about feeling down and wanting to quit...it's exact opposite.

Being content in your skill set like a Ben Simmons who you mentioned is worse than what Coward said, but I’m never going to be on board with a guy saying “you are not as good as you think” unless he’s saying it to his opponent as he blows by them.

It's totally normal to go from high school to college then to the NBA and have that "welcome to the next level moment" when you realize you are no longer a big fish in a small pond. It happens to the best players. Most if not all of these draftees will have that moment in their rookie seasons. That is totally normal.

“Welcome to the ____” moments are definitely normal, but doubting my own ability when I need an exorbitant level of confidence to prove myself at an exponentially higher level is not.

[mtcan]

Being content in your skill set like a Ben Simmons who you mentioned is worse than what Coward said, but I’m never going to be on board with a guy saying “you are not as good as you think” unless he’s saying it to his opponent as he blows by them.

It's totally normal to go from high school to college then to the NBA and have that "welcome to the next level moment" when you realize you are no longer a big fish in a small pond. It happens to the best players. Most if not all of these draftees will have that moment in their rookie seasons. That is totally normal.

“Welcome to the ____” moments are definitely normal, but doubting my own ability when I need an exorbitant level of confidence to prove myself at an exponentially higher level is not.

Confidence comes from you knowing you put the blood, sweat and tears in to get better. Confidence comes from showing out when it matters. But the motivation was recognizing that you weren't good enough and needed to put in the work. That is what we are referring to and what you refer to as self preservation. Like I said...it's not a bad thing to recognize that you aren't who you need to be yet.

[RoteSchroder]

Clearly, Captain America. Your opinion is your opinion. The fact that I disagree is not an issue to anyone but you and the other know it all in here.

Self preservation, a strong work ethic, and the want to get better all get you in the gym. Keep doubting yourself and sooner or later someone will make you believe in it.

Self preservation is exactly what I'm talking about. The feeling that you need to get better to keep and excel at your job. There is an element of self doubt there that pushes you to work harder. It's not about feeling down and wanting to quit...it's exact opposite.

Being content in your skill set like a Ben Simmons who you mentioned is worse than what Coward said, but I’m never going to be on board with a guy saying “you are not as good as you think” unless he’s saying it to his opponent as he blows by them.

may be a terminology thing, but doubting yourself in-game is a no no

Many people don't doubt themselves, they just want to be the best they can be. Derozan and Siakam have always shown confidence in themselves. Knowing that you can't get there without putting in the work is not necessarily self-doubt.

At the same time, doubting yourself isn't necessarily a red flag. Look up the Pritchard interviews where he says he wasn't sure if he was good enough, didn't know if he could hang in the NBA, and still felt like he wasn't good enough, etc. etc. Now he's one of the most explosive 3 point shooters in the game

I think all that matters is what they do on court. Coward's all-round efficiency is definitely interesting.

[OakleyDokely]

Coward is so silky smooth, and his shooting motion is effortless. The size, combined with the efficiency and shooting potential, has me sold on him, especially considering he also fills the stat sheet with rebounds, assists, stocks.

I'd take him at 9 without a second thought.