Celtics, Mavericks, Washington - Jrue

[Larry_Russell]

Dallas in Jrue
Dallas out Gafford, Klay Thompson, Naji Marshall

Why? Dallas need a guy to can play with Kyrie and cover for him while he is out.


Boston in Gafford, Marshall and #40
Out: Jrue and #28

Boston sheds about 10 million in salary and adds a bigman and a big wing who can take over tough defensive matchups from Tatum. Move allows them to explore KP trades for more savings giving Gafford and chance at starting for a season to see if it works.

Washington in Klay Thompson, #28
Out: Number 40

Washington takes on salary, but moves up their second rounder 12 spots. They will should have capspace to do this as Middleton likely opts out, and Holmes in a NG contract.

[Texas Chuck]

My offer would not include Marshall. Gafford/Klay/Hardy/Powell. Dallas still would have to go out and find an offensive minded PG as that isn't Jrue. And taking on that contract, Dallas should be able to move out the small salary they want. Maybe you could talk me into Martin, but Boston owes more then too.

[pcbothwel]

Midds is not going to opt out, so the Wiz wont have cap space. They have the MLE (14.1) and a TPE (10M) to take on salary.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Middleton isn't opting out. He may if Washington promises something like 3/60 with 40 Million guaranteed. Allows him to be traded to a contender.

[daoneandonly]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

[Larry_Russell]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

[Larry_Russell]

Midds is not going to opt out, so the Wiz wont have cap space. They have the MLE (14.1) and a TPE (10M) to take on salary.

Can also cut Holmes.

[Texas Chuck]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

He would start for Dallas. That part isn't the issue. The issue of course is the contract. And hammering out how that impacts value and Dallas wanting to match differently.

[daoneandonly]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

I'm talking about his once bread-and-butter D. Who did he even contain in the postseason? Nobody.

[mademan]

Ya if im Dallas, the only way im eating the rest of Jrue's contract is if im sending out every iffy smaller long contract we have. Martin/Hardy/Klay all going out alongside Gafford and im still asking for the late 1st Boston has this year to try and find a young talent for Flagg. And i still think Dallas is losing that trade, but i can at least justify it. Jrue's contract is rough

[hugepatsfan]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

I'm talking about his once bread-and-butter D. Who did he even contain in the postseason? Nobody.

His D looked fine in the playoffs. One of the criticisms of their playoff strategy was too much White guarding Brunson instead of Jrue. The game 1 that went to overtime... the Knicks actually led with a few minutes to go and the game only went to overtime because Celtics tied it on the back of Holiday absolutely owning Brunson for a few possessions back to back. Took away Brunson's first step one time and forced him to palm the ball. Turned him over once. And then forced a contested miss shot another. Knicks would have completed the comeback in overtime if it weren't for Jrue being so lockdown on that end still. I'm sure there's some drop off but he's still elite for sure on defense.

[hugepatsfan]

My offer would not include Marshall. Gafford/Klay/Hardy/Powell. Dallas still would have to go out and find an offensive minded PG as that isn't Jrue. And taking on that contract, Dallas should be able to move out the small salary they want. Maybe you could talk me into Martin, but Boston owes more then too.

What about Klay/Martin/Hardy/Powell for Jrue? Isn't Martin kind of redundant on the roster since you have Lively at C which means AD mostly at PF, Washington still there, Flagg probably best off as a PF too and Marshall as that 3/4 combo. Feels like keeping Gafford as an expiring to move for value would make more sense, IMO, than keeping Martin just based on the roster construction. Sending out Martin's multi year deal helps offset the cost of Jrue. Kley/Martin/Hardy going out actually offsets the cost of Jrue for this year and next and then Martin/Hardy make up like 40% of the 3rd year too.

Jrue
(Kyrie when healthy) / Christie
Flagg / Marshall
AD / Washington
Lively / Gafford

I think Gafford as a larger expiring salary make him a better guy to hold onto to try and move for the needed backcourt scoring.

BOS can actually do this trade without anyone else even though they take back more than they send because the have a $4M TPE for Powell. Klay/Martin/Hardy make $0.1M less than Jrue so the math works.

End of the day, I think whether it was Gafford or Martin coming back BOS would dump them. Martin into SAC's MLE or TPE and Gafford into ATL's TPE would be my target deals. Solid players but we just can't afford them since I think Klay would be hard to dump. So Gafford vs. Martin wouldn't matter to me, I'm just questioning you valuing Martin over Gafford from DAL's perspective.

[Texas Chuck]

I'm just questioning you valuing Martin over Gafford from DAL's perspective.

I'm not. I was valuing Martin over Powell/Hardy lol. Yeah if Boston would do it with Martin instead of Gafford, all the better for Dallas. More than okay with that switch.

[Larry_Russell]

Dallas sint giving up any two of PJ/Naji/Gaff for Jrue Holiday at this juncture of his career and contract. Completely nonsensical. The dude is close to washed

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

I'm talking about his once bread-and-butter D. Who did he even contain in the postseason? Nobody.

HE was more than fine, while playing with a strained hamstring.

[daoneandonly]

My offer would not include Marshall. Gafford/Klay/Hardy/Powell. Dallas still would have to go out and find an offensive minded PG as that isn't Jrue. And taking on that contract, Dallas should be able to move out the small salary they want. Maybe you could talk me into Martin, but Boston owes more then too.

What about Klay/Martin/Hardy/Powell for Jrue? Isn't Martin kind of redundant on the roster since you have Lively at C which means AD mostly at PF, Washington still there, Flagg probably best off as a PF too and Marshall as that 3/4 combo. Feels like keeping Gafford as an expiring to move for value would make more sense, IMO, than keeping Martin just based on the roster construction. Sending out Martin's multi year deal helps offset the cost of Jrue. Kley/Martin/Hardy going out actually offsets the cost of Jrue for this year and next and then Martin/Hardy make up like 40% of the 3rd year too.

Jrue
(Kyrie when healthy) / Christie
Flagg / Marshall
AD / Washington
Lively / Gafford

I think Gafford as a larger expiring salary make him a better guy to hold onto to try and move for the needed backcourt scoring.

BOS can actually do this trade without anyone else even though they take back more than they send because the have a $4M TPE for Powell. Klay/Martin/Hardy make $0.1M less than Jrue so the math works.

End of the day, I think whether it was Gafford or Martin coming back BOS would dump them. Martin into SAC's MLE or TPE and Gafford into ATL's TPE would be my target deals. Solid players but we just can't afford them since I think Klay would be hard to dump. So Gafford vs. Martin wouldn't matter to me, I'm just questioning you valuing Martin over Gafford from DAL's perspective.

Would Boston consider that though. I personally think Jrue is semi-washed, but that Dallas package is a pile of poop

[hugepatsfan]

My offer would not include Marshall. Gafford/Klay/Hardy/Powell. Dallas still would have to go out and find an offensive minded PG as that isn't Jrue. And taking on that contract, Dallas should be able to move out the small salary they want. Maybe you could talk me into Martin, but Boston owes more then too.

What about Klay/Martin/Hardy/Powell for Jrue? Isn't Martin kind of redundant on the roster since you have Lively at C which means AD mostly at PF, Washington still there, Flagg probably best off as a PF too and Marshall as that 3/4 combo. Feels like keeping Gafford as an expiring to move for value would make more sense, IMO, than keeping Martin just based on the roster construction. Sending out Martin's multi year deal helps offset the cost of Jrue. Kley/Martin/Hardy going out actually offsets the cost of Jrue for this year and next and then Martin/Hardy make up like 40% of the 3rd year too.

Jrue
(Kyrie when healthy) / Christie
Flagg / Marshall
AD / Washington
Lively / Gafford

I think Gafford as a larger expiring salary make him a better guy to hold onto to try and move for the needed backcourt scoring.

BOS can actually do this trade without anyone else even though they take back more than they send because the have a $4M TPE for Powell. Klay/Martin/Hardy make $0.1M less than Jrue so the math works.

End of the day, I think whether it was Gafford or Martin coming back BOS would dump them. Martin into SAC's MLE or TPE and Gafford into ATL's TPE would be my target deals. Solid players but we just can't afford them since I think Klay would be hard to dump. So Gafford vs. Martin wouldn't matter to me, I'm just questioning you valuing Martin over Gafford from DAL's perspective.

Would Boston consider that though. I personally think Jrue is semi-washed, but that Dallas package is a pile of poop

Honestly, it's not really about what BOS thinks of those players since they'd be looking to dump all of them. Being stuck with Klay is probably the necessary evil. Swapping Jrue for Klay next year saves BOS a huge chunk of money and in 26-27 the swap puts them solidly below the tax. That's probably a necessary evil they gotta take on the chin - Jrue for Klay.

But Martin, Hardy, Powell would all have to be moved to other teams to make sense. Would SAC take Martin into their TPE? Would BRK take a flier on Hardy because they have no guards? Powell is a decent 3rd center for cheap? Between BOS and DAL chipping in 2nds to compensate teams, can those 3 be dumped? If so, then the deal probably works for BOS.

You're down on Jrue so you might not see it this way, but to most people DAL is getting a big upgrade in the short term for taking on the third year (they basically entirely offset the first 2 years of the deal). They want to improve as a team most likely and have limited resources to do so and this kind of upgrade for no asset cost can help that. BOS is getting a huge downgrade on the court for financial savings and therefore don't have to mortgage future assets for it. I think that's the rationale for both sides.

[nate33]

Dallas in Jrue
Dallas out Gafford, Klay Thompson, Naji Marshall

Why? Dallas need a guy to can play with Kyrie and cover for him while he is out.


Boston in Gafford, Marshall and #40
Out: Jrue and #28

Boston sheds about 10 million in salary and adds a bigman and a big wing who can take over tough defensive matchups from Tatum. Move allows them to explore KP trades for more savings giving Gafford and chance at starting for a season to see if it works.

Washington in Klay Thompson, #28
Out: Number 40

Washington takes on salary, but moves up their second rounder 12 spots. They will should have capspace to do this as Middleton likely opts out, and Holmes in a NG contract.

You are dreaming if you think you can get out of Jrue's contract this painlessly. You are not turning him into Gafford while only dropping 12 places in the second round.

Jrue is still good in limited spurts, but he is too old to bring it every night and he is likely to have injury problems going forward. He is wildly overpaid with $104M owed over the next 3 years. The only teams that really want a guy like that are contending teams, and most contending teams aren't willing or able to shell out $34M a year on a guy likely to be the 5th best guy on the roster.

[nate33]

Calling jrue washed is complete nonsense.

Dude was playing as a 6th option.

I'm talking about his once bread-and-butter D. Who did he even contain in the postseason? Nobody.

HE was more than fine, while playing with a strained hamstring.

And at his age, he is always going to have a strained something come playoff time. That's the problem with old players. It's not that they're not good when healthy. It's that they are rarely fully healthy. Teams can't afford to pay $34M a year on guys like that.

[Ron Swanson]

I certainly wouldn't call Jrue "washed" quite yet, but I think Boston fans are in for a rude awakening if they keep thinking they're gonna be able to shed that contract for quality/useful players, shed a bunch of payroll, AND not have to attach a bunch of draft compensation. This is just way too good for them.

[pcbothwel]

Midds is not going to opt out, so the Wiz wont have cap space. They have the MLE (14.1) and a TPE (10M) to take on salary.

Can also cut Holmes.

Yes. We can. But what does that matter? We are ~15M above the cap with our pick cap holds. So cutting Holmes would put us ~3-4M above the cap.