Lets admit the obvious: SGA is a better player than Luka

[CobraCommander]

so if SGA makes the finals and wins it's pretty much undeniable, right?

As undeniable as Tatum being better after winning last year.

Tatum was not the MVP and scoring leader of the league.

[maxpower8888]

this is obvious - one is the MVP and there other isn't....

luka may have more talent BUT SGA is nearly as talented and has infinitely more work ethic ......and work ethic beats near talent...



for all the people saying SGA had a better team than LUKA when they played in the playoffs....

but when the Mavs played OKC here are Lukas stats-

Luka vs OKC in playoffs- Series Averages: 24.7 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 8.7 APG over 6 games
SGA vs Mavs in playoffs averaged 32.2 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 7.3 assists per game, with shooting splits of 50.7% from the field, 55.0% from three-point range, and 83.3% from the free-throw line.

Player PTS REB AST FG% 3P% FT%
Luka 24.7 10.5 8.7 42.7% 25.5% 94.4%
SGA 32.2 8.0 7.3 50.7% 55.0% 83.3%


so luka wins the series vs SGA but SGA outplays Luka head up...... you guys say SGA had a better team.... hmmmm COPE

Well, that logic would work out perfectly if SGA was playing with a team of robots, and Luka was playing with a team of the exact same robots. But since they each have different players around them, you can't just compare their head-to-head stats like that. At the end of the day it's a team game, and certain teams defend better than other teams.

Ok so when they played heads up SGA outplayed Luka...period...you agree- the excuse was Luka was hurt in those playoffs...

Lukas team BEAT SGAs team in spite of SGA outplaying Luka. these are facts...I gave you the numbers...it's plan and simple.

SGA has an MVP...period...SGA and Luka have both won scoring title.

I do think pure talent... luka is the most talented player in the world.....

but honestly Luka isn't even trying to be the best if he isn't training in the offseason....and it shows.

I agree with you, Luka shoots himself in the foot with his work ethic and attitude on the court. If he doesn't change things soon, hitting his 30's will be a huge slap in his face, and by that point it may be too late to turn things around with all his mileage. With that said, I don't think SGA truly outplayed him last season in the series, he just had a better defensive team (himself included) that made things harder for Luka than the Mavs did for SGA.

[Godymas]

As undeniable as Tatum being better after winning last year.

Tatum was not the MVP and scoring leader of the league.

Fair enough, but you also can't discount that SGA has a much better supporting cast than Luka has ever had.

Kyrie Irving is better all time, and better in his current form than anyone SGA had up until debatably Jalen Williams today who has become a 2 way stud. SGA is playing with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd year guys.

Luka had a supporting cast that hid him so well on defense they were an elite defensive team post trade deadline. PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr., Green, Gafford, Lively, even Exum. Luka had a legitimate squad with real depth which was able to manhandle the TWolves. Ofc he didn't have a defender as awesome as Alex Caruso, but on offense he had even more help considering he had a true shot creator in Kyrie to work with.

[CobraCommander]

Luka peaks as high as prime Lebron, a top 5 player of all time. Unfortunately, he rarely hits that peak now due to conditioning issues. SGA peaks as a great player of this current era, but not the top 5 ATG Luka looks like when he's on.

the problem is it will be 8 years next year....like we waiting 8 years for luka to take conditioning seriously...does that sound like someone thats going to be a top 5 all time player?

[therealbig3]

Tatum over Luka also isn’t unreasonable given Tatum’s vastly better defense btw.

Luka’s bad defense is a legitimately big problem. Can’t just hand wave it away.

[CobraCommander]

Well, that logic would work out perfectly if SGA was playing with a team of robots, and Luka was playing with a team of the exact same robots. But since they each have different players around them, you can't just compare their head-to-head stats like that. At the end of the day it's a team game, and certain teams defend better than other teams.

Ok so when they played heads up SGA outplayed Luka...period...you agree- the excuse was Luka was hurt in those playoffs...

Lukas team BEAT SGAs team in spite of SGA outplaying Luka. these are facts...I gave you the numbers...it's plan and simple.

SGA has an MVP...period...SGA and Luka have both won scoring title.

I do think pure talent... luka is the most talented player in the world.....

but honestly Luka isn't even trying to be the best if he isn't training in the offseason....and it shows.

I agree with you, Luka shoots himself in the foot with his work ethic and attitude on the court. If he doesn't change things soon, hitting his 30's will be a huge slap in his face, and by that point it may be too late to turn things around with all his mileage. With that said, I don't think SGA truly outplayed him last season in the series, he just had a better defensive team (himself included) that made things harder for Luka than the Mavs did for SGA.

the numbers speak for themselves....SGA outplayed him game over game..

Luka was hurt I think...but he showed up with those bloody knees and that chubby body and got outplayed.

I don't get why people make some many excuses for a guy that doesn't take his body seriously.

Lukas fans care more about defending Luka than LUKA cares about getting in shape....

[maxpower8888]

Tatum was not the MVP and scoring leader of the league.

Fair enough, but you also can't discount that SGA has a much better supporting cast than Luka has ever had.

Kyrie Irving is better all time, and better in his current form than anyone SGA had up until debatably Jalen Williams today who has become a 2 way stud. SGA is playing with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd year guys.

Luka had a supporting cast that hid him so well on defense they were an elite defensive team post trade deadline. PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr., Green, Gafford, Lively, even Exum. Luka had a legitimate squad with real depth which was able to manhandle the TWolves. Ofc he didn't have a defender as awesome as Alex Caruso, but on offense he had even more help considering he had a true shot creator in Kyrie to work with.

Yes but Kyrie is just one player, overall the OKC as a team are much better than any Mavericks team since Luka has been on it. Just like Curry is one of the GOATs, but he wasn't better than LeBron during any stretch between 2015 to 2020, even if some seasons he may have had better stats, he just had a better team around him.

[maxpower8888]

Ok so when they played heads up SGA outplayed Luka...period...you agree- the excuse was Luka was hurt in those playoffs...

Lukas team BEAT SGAs team in spite of SGA outplaying Luka. these are facts...I gave you the numbers...it's plan and simple.

SGA has an MVP...period...SGA and Luka have both won scoring title.

I do think pure talent... luka is the most talented player in the world.....

but honestly Luka isn't even trying to be the best if he isn't training in the offseason....and it shows.

I agree with you, Luka shoots himself in the foot with his work ethic and attitude on the court. If he doesn't change things soon, hitting his 30's will be a huge slap in his face, and by that point it may be too late to turn things around with all his mileage. With that said, I don't think SGA truly outplayed him last season in the series, he just had a better defensive team (himself included) that made things harder for Luka than the Mavs did for SGA.

the numbers speak for themselves....SGA outplayed him game over game..

Luka was hurt I think...but he showed up with those bloody knees and that chubby body and got outplayed.

I don't get why people make some many excuses for a guy that doesn't take his body seriously.

Lukas fans care more about defending Luka than LUKA cares about getting in shape....

You think he was hurt? Talk about making excuses by downplaying.

[CobraCommander]

luka is an overnight franchise changer

he's a love at first sight talent. it seems like he's been around longer but both were drafted in 2018

luka is just f****g SMARTER and always will be

smarter?

how do you judge that?

just asking because I am not sure how you quantify and evaluate Lukas intelligence vs SGAs....this reeks of something else but maybe im wrong lol

[CobraCommander]

I agree with you, Luka shoots himself in the foot with his work ethic and attitude on the court. If he doesn't change things soon, hitting his 30's will be a huge slap in his face, and by that point it may be too late to turn things around with all his mileage. With that said, I don't think SGA truly outplayed him last season in the series, he just had a better defensive team (himself included) that made things harder for Luka than the Mavs did for SGA.

the numbers speak for themselves....SGA outplayed him game over game..

Luka was hurt I think...but he showed up with those bloody knees and that chubby body and got outplayed.

I don't get why people make some many excuses for a guy that doesn't take his body seriously.

Lukas fans care more about defending Luka than LUKA cares about getting in shape....

You think he was hurt? Talk about making excuses by downplaying.

im just saying man...luka avg 30 points every series and put up 24...he came into that series and honestly the last 4 playoffs hurt...after a epic season and wasn't himself. OKC wasn't really good that series either. Kyrie was cooking and SGA was a man alone out there on both ends some nights.

Look like I said....Luka has the highest talent in my estimation...but SGAs work ethic has proven to do what high work ethic and high talent tends to do when compared to people with even higher talent...as they say in academics - diligence beats intelligence 7 times out of ten...but diligence and intelligence wins 100% of the time...

[CobraCommander]

to some of y'all....there is nothing SGA or Tatum can do to surpass Luka...and there is nothing luka can do to make you guys stop believing that he is indeed the best ever...

when we get to the place where objective facts are being discarded based on just "who you like more" then debate is reddit level impossible.

[Raps in 4]

1. SGA
2. Luka
3. Tatum

I don't think anyone can deny this order. Tatum might put up comparable regular season stats to Luka, but he's a certified playoff choker. SGA is better than both in the regular season, and Luka and him are comparable in the playoffs.

[Lalouie]

luka is an overnight franchise changer

he's a love at first sight talent. it seems like he's been around longer but both were drafted in 2018

luka is just f****g SMARTER and always will be

smarter?

how do you judge that?

just asking because I am not sure how you quantify and evaluate Lukas intelligence vs SGAs....this reeks of something else but maybe im wrong lol

then we can start with the obvious,,,,, CUZ EVERYONE PUTS LUKA IN THAT CATEGORY OF SMARTS WITH LEBRON AND JOKIC,,, and I don't sniff sga's name anywhere

There are way way better people who can make that judgment than anyone on this board

[Woodsanity]

Only players I rank over SGA now are Jokic and maybe Giannis. Luka has had a down season. Can't justify ranking him over SGA now.

[CobraCommander]

luka is an overnight franchise changer

he's a love at first sight talent. it seems like he's been around longer but both were drafted in 2018

luka is just f****g SMARTER and always will be

smarter?

how do you judge that?

just asking because I am not sure how you quantify and evaluate Lukas intelligence vs SGAs....this reeks of something else but maybe im wrong lol

then we can start with the obvious,,,,, CUZ EVERYONE PUTS LUKA IN THAT CATEGORY OF SMARTS WITH LEBRON AND JOKIC,,, and I don't sniff sga's name anywhere

There are way way better people who can make that judgment than anyone on this board

ok here is what they say about Lebron being smart...Lebron came into the league with high talent and the best NBA body possible. Great gifts...and he was smart enough to maximize those gifts by building the best training regiment possible to maximize his health throughout his career. that is unquestioned at this point. Lebron also a billionaire that, while playing, has a marketing and talent agency making sure his brand is generating money. the reality is there are people playing FOR lebron on nearly every team in the NBA because Lebron gets more from Rich Pauls agency as an owner. We also have 2 decades of Lebron changing his game to match the way the league plays... example...lebron came into the league rarely shooting 3s at 29% and last year shoots a ton of 3s at 41%. Lebrons basketball IQ is something I can't personally quantify but I will tell you 4 rings, multiple MVPs over 2+ decades and still being an extremely effective player obviously speaks to having some level of intelligence. Also when they break down film on lebron they say he ALWAYS makes the right play or RARELY makes the wrong play or is out of position on offense or defense.

Jokic did the same thing Lebron did...he improved year over year....by making modifications to his game. incremental changes that improved his effectiveness. Jokic did indeed get in better shape and did indeed figure out a way to be in better position defensively....the number bear this out...so without getting much more athletic - Jokic won 3 MVPs and a ring by playing differently - that also shows some intelligence.



I gave you off and on the court smarts for lebron...I gave you on the court intelligence for Jokic...

I don't see the same thing with luka...

give me one element of high intelligence or higher intelligence from Luka that says he is smarter than SGA? higher talent? Yeah maybe if you can qualify or quantify that...I would concede that...because high talent is the only way to explain a guy in Lukas condition that can do what he does when all reports out of Dallas were he had horrible work ethic...

im just waiting for some shred of info that tells you Luka is smarter than SGA....

also if luka was smart he would get in shape...same with Zion...the other guys are winning MVPs and Chips while he out here getting traded and losing over a 100 million dollars in contract value cause the mavs didn't trust him to get in shape...thats kinda stupid...

[CobraCommander]

1. SGA
2. Luka
3. Tatum

I don't think anyone can deny this order. Tatum might put up comparable regular season stats to Luka, but he's a certified playoff choker. SGA is better than both in the regular season, and Luka and him are comparable in the playoffs.

not to defend tatum but he was killing it and had 42 points in the game he got hurt....and has a ring...I don't know how you choke and win that damn much...and we saw the Celtics without Tatum get destroyed in the final game with the Knicks... I think tataum has a great argument to be better than luka with his ring and better winning...but its open for debate..

[CobraCommander]

Player rankings can fluctuate year to year. Luka was better up until this season where SGA is clearly better. Can change next season also. This is SGA’s career best year and Luka’s worst.

for the last 3 years SGA has beaten Luka in MVP Voting...

the coaches GMs and press have had SGA ahead of Luka for a while. RealGM is just catching up.

people are putting luka in the young offense only harden category and SGA in the Kobe MJ - best two way guard conversation...

[Godymas]

Fair enough, but you also can't discount that SGA has a much better supporting cast than Luka has ever had.

Kyrie Irving is better all time, and better in his current form than anyone SGA had up until debatably Jalen Williams today who has become a 2 way stud. SGA is playing with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd year guys.

Luka had a supporting cast that hid him so well on defense they were an elite defensive team post trade deadline. PJ Washington, Derrick Jones Jr., Green, Gafford, Lively, even Exum. Luka had a legitimate squad with real depth which was able to manhandle the TWolves. Ofc he didn't have a defender as awesome as Alex Caruso, but on offense he had even more help considering he had a true shot creator in Kyrie to work with.

Yes but Kyrie is just one player, overall the OKC as a team are much better than any Mavericks team since Luka has been on it. Just like Curry is one of the GOATs, but he wasn't better than LeBron during any stretch between 2015 to 2020, even if some seasons he may have had better stats, he just had a better team around him.

Luka is not a LeBron tier player, Luka is a KD tier player. Yes, Curry was better than KD on and off depending on the year.

[Godymas]

Luka peaks as high as prime Lebron, a top 5 player of all time. Unfortunately, he rarely hits that peak now due to conditioning issues. SGA peaks as a great player of this current era, but not the top 5 ATG Luka looks like when he's on.

the problem is it will be 8 years next year....like we waiting 8 years for luka to take conditioning seriously...does that sound like someone thats going to be a top 5 all time player?

People who compare Luka to LeBron are crazy btw. Luka hasn’t even had a better start to his career than Kevin Durant

[CobraCommander]

Luka peaks as high as prime Lebron, a top 5 player of all time. Unfortunately, he rarely hits that peak now due to conditioning issues. SGA peaks as a great player of this current era, but not the top 5 ATG Luka looks like when he's on.

the problem is it will be 8 years next year....like we waiting 8 years for luka to take conditioning seriously...does that sound like someone thats going to be a top 5 all time player?

People who compare Luka to LeBron are crazy btw. Luka hasn’t even had a better start to his career than Kevin Durant

Lebron was literally the best player in the league pretty early on...and if he wasn't..there was a strong argument for him...there has never been a minute when someone could say Luka was better than Jokic or Giannis...If they said Luka was better than Giannis you still had to deal with JOKIC... and now its tatum, SGA, Giannis, Jokic...when healthy is Embiid better in reg season...is Wemby going to be better next year....Is ANT better now...ant just outplayed him heads up...

Luka is amazing but LEBRON was never being compared to this many peers going into year 8

its been 8 years guys!!!!