Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[vvoland]

Use calculated ORTG and calculated DRTGs, these paint a much better picture. You just need to separate the core playrs from the role-playrs.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html

Man these are terrible stats.

I do get why you hate them...
Here's the stats for all the playoffs for GS, the bigs minus Post did well. Draymond was just bad but also played out of position and really seemed to get worse when Curry was ruled out.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 80  154  111         43
Kevon Looney         120 124  108         16
Jimmy Butler         397 127  114         13
Pat Spencer          63  118  114          4
Stephen Curry        281 116  113          3
Gary Payton II       180 116  113          3
Buddy Hield          327 116  114          2
Gui Santos           72  114  112          2
Moses Moody          193 110  115         -5
Jonathan Kuminga     187 108  117         -9
Brandin Podziemski   385 102  114        -12
Quinten Post         146 99   113        -14
Kevin Knox           38  104  118        -14
Draymond Green       389 89   111        -22
Braxton Key          23  52   101        -49


Here's just the Minnesota series...
A lot of Warriors stunk led by Draymond, Podz and GP2.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 56  164  117         47
Stephen Curry        13  127  104         23
Kevon Looney         55  124  102         22
Jimmy Butler         194 120  115          5
Jonathan Kuminga     137 119  118          1
Gui Santos           33  108  111         -3
Buddy Hield          165 108  114         -6
Gary Payton II       84  97   110        -13
Brandin Podziemski   173 98   113        -15
Braxton Key          5   99   118        -19
Moses Moody          47  98   118        -20
Draymond Green       162 93   114        -21
Quinten Post         27  92   119        -27
Kevin Knox           14  98   126        -28
Pat Spencer          35  78   115        -37

Here's the regular season (the whole season, Butler was only around for the high level winning so his numbers are only based on that, not the .500 ball the team was playing for over half the season)...

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP   ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --   ---- ---- ---------
Reece Beekman        4    216  93         123
Yuri Collins         16   141  105         36
Jimmy Butler         980  136  113         23
Kevon Looney         1142 128  108         20
Gary Payton II       927  124  110         14
Trayce Jackson-Davis 967  125  111         14
Jackson Rowe         52   121  108         13
Kyle Anderson        541  118  109          9
Stephen Curry        2252 120  113          7
Gui Santos           762  118  113          5
Quinten Post         686  116  112          4
Brandin Podziemski   1716 116  112          4
Kevin Knox           84   116  112          4
Andrew Wiggins       1296 116  114          2
Moses Moody          1649 116  114          2
Draymond Green       1983 107  109         -2
De'Anthony Melton    121  106  110         -4
Jonathan Kuminga     1144 108  112         -4
Buddy Hield          1863 108  113         -5
Lindy Waters III     655  105  113         -8
Pat Spencer          250  103  111         -8
Dennis Schröder      628  99   114        -15
Braxton Key          11   54   99         -45


I hear that yet year after year they seem to be very good at showing who did well and who didn't since they try to extract the player's involvement in the offense / defense without giving EVERYONE credit for every play on the court.

It's almost like you can see who is or who isn't contributing to winning. Of course, there are low amounts of data for the fringe guys so they could be much higher or much lower than what they probably should be because of that.

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

[AirP.]

Man these are terrible stats.

I do get why you hate them...
Here's the stats for all the playoffs for GS, the bigs minus Post did well. Draymond was just bad but also played out of position and really seemed to get worse when Curry was ruled out.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 80  154  111         43
Kevon Looney         120 124  108         16
Jimmy Butler         397 127  114         13
Pat Spencer          63  118  114          4
Stephen Curry        281 116  113          3
Gary Payton II       180 116  113          3
Buddy Hield          327 116  114          2
Gui Santos           72  114  112          2
Moses Moody          193 110  115         -5
Jonathan Kuminga     187 108  117         -9
Brandin Podziemski   385 102  114        -12
Quinten Post         146 99   113        -14
Kevin Knox           38  104  118        -14
Draymond Green       389 89   111        -22
Braxton Key          23  52   101        -49


Here's just the Minnesota series...
A lot of Warriors stunk led by Draymond, Podz and GP2.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 56  164  117         47
Stephen Curry        13  127  104         23
Kevon Looney         55  124  102         22
Jimmy Butler         194 120  115          5
Jonathan Kuminga     137 119  118          1
Gui Santos           33  108  111         -3
Buddy Hield          165 108  114         -6
Gary Payton II       84  97   110        -13
Brandin Podziemski   173 98   113        -15
Braxton Key          5   99   118        -19
Moses Moody          47  98   118        -20
Draymond Green       162 93   114        -21
Quinten Post         27  92   119        -27
Kevin Knox           14  98   126        -28
Pat Spencer          35  78   115        -37

Here's the regular season (the whole season, Butler was only around for the high level winning so his numbers are only based on that, not the .500 ball the team was playing for over half the season)...

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP   ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --   ---- ---- ---------
Reece Beekman        4    216  93         123
Yuri Collins         16   141  105         36
Jimmy Butler         980  136  113         23
Kevon Looney         1142 128  108         20
Gary Payton II       927  124  110         14
Trayce Jackson-Davis 967  125  111         14
Jackson Rowe         52   121  108         13
Kyle Anderson        541  118  109          9
Stephen Curry        2252 120  113          7
Gui Santos           762  118  113          5
Quinten Post         686  116  112          4
Brandin Podziemski   1716 116  112          4
Kevin Knox           84   116  112          4
Andrew Wiggins       1296 116  114          2
Moses Moody          1649 116  114          2
Draymond Green       1983 107  109         -2
De'Anthony Melton    121  106  110         -4
Jonathan Kuminga     1144 108  112         -4
Buddy Hield          1863 108  113         -5
Lindy Waters III     655  105  113         -8
Pat Spencer          250  103  111         -8
Dennis Schröder      628  99   114        -15
Braxton Key          11   54   99         -45


I hear that yet year after year they seem to be very good at showing who did well and who didn't since they try to extract the player's involvement in the offense / defense without giving EVERYONE credit for every play on the court.

It's almost like you can see who is or who isn't contributing to winning. Of course, there are low amounts of data for the fringe guys so they could be much higher or much lower than what they probably should be because of that.

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

So, you're saying a coach who has multiple championships as a coach and as a player is tanking GS's potential on purpose because he just doesn't like Kuminga, not because Kuminga refuses to do what he's asked to do?

For instance, let's say it's the last possession of game 7, down by 1 and Kuminga is on the court with Curry, I can't trust that Kuminga will do what it takes to run the offense or possibly try to get Curry open for a shot before Kuminga calls his own number.

I don't think many are saying Kuminga isn't talented (maybe nobody is, he is talented), the problem is that he wants to be able to call his own number whenever he wants and in 4 years in the NBA not being able to do that, he's still not willing to give in. He wants to be the main guy and I say, let him go be that main guy for a lot of money somewhere else.

[statsman]

Hopefully any S&T of Kuminga doesn't involve taking back players who really don't help in order to claim they didn't lose Kuminga for nothing.

I believe only the Nets can make a RFA offer that would cause the Warriors great pains to match. Everyone else are much more limited, and in those cases need the Warriors to help out in a S&T.

I am not exactly sure what the Nets are going to do. The reports indicate that the Nets are interested in both Giddey and Kuminga. They obviously can only make one RFA offer. It seems like the Bulls would match on Giddey, if they don't resign him before it gets to that stage.

Given the choice, I have to believe the Nets will go all-in on Giddey if he isn't re-signed by the start of free agency. If that happens, Kuminga's options narrow to S&T deals. And the Warriors are under no obligation to take back mediocre players just to appease Kuminga and his idiot agent.

[AirP.]

Hopefully any S&T of Kuminga doesn't involve taking back players who really don't help in order to claim they didn't lose Kuminga for nothing.

I believe only the Nets can make a RFA offer that would cause the Warriors great pains to match. Everyone else are much more limited, and in those cases need the Warriors to help out in a S&T.

I am not exactly sure what the Nets are going to do. The reports indicate that the Nets are interested in both Giddey and Kuminga. They obviously can only make one RFA offer. It seems like the Bulls would match on Giddey, if they don't resign him before it gets to that stage.

Given the choice, I have to believe the Nets will go all-in on Giddey if he isn't re-signed by the start of free agency. If that happens, Kuminga's options narrow to S&T deals. And the Warriors are under no obligation to take back mediocre players just to appease Kuminga and his idiot agent.

For GS, they need to know what they can get for MLE and vet minimums to better decide who they will/won't S&T Kuminga for. I wouldn't be surprised if Kuminga is just resigned in GS then possibly moved around the trade deadline.

Kuminga can work with Butler and if Kuminga is back, I'd try to separate minutes between Curry/Draymond and Butler/Kuminga for the regular season when one of Curry or Butler are on the floor.

[NW]

Watch on YouTube

Bleacher Reprt video on 6 possible Kuminga destinations:
Brooklyn
Chicago
Charlotte
New Orleans
Sacramento
Washington

[vvoland]

I do get why you hate them...
Here's the stats for all the playoffs for GS, the bigs minus Post did well. Draymond was just bad but also played out of position and really seemed to get worse when Curry was ruled out.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 80  154  111         43
Kevon Looney         120 124  108         16
Jimmy Butler         397 127  114         13
Pat Spencer          63  118  114          4
Stephen Curry        281 116  113          3
Gary Payton II       180 116  113          3
Buddy Hield          327 116  114          2
Gui Santos           72  114  112          2
Moses Moody          193 110  115         -5
Jonathan Kuminga     187 108  117         -9
Brandin Podziemski   385 102  114        -12
Quinten Post         146 99   113        -14
Kevin Knox           38  104  118        -14
Draymond Green       389 89   111        -22
Braxton Key          23  52   101        -49


Here's just the Minnesota series...
A lot of Warriors stunk led by Draymond, Podz and GP2.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP  ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --  ---- ---- ---------
Trayce Jackson-Davis 56  164  117         47
Stephen Curry        13  127  104         23
Kevon Looney         55  124  102         22
Jimmy Butler         194 120  115          5
Jonathan Kuminga     137 119  118          1
Gui Santos           33  108  111         -3
Buddy Hield          165 108  114         -6
Gary Payton II       84  97   110        -13
Brandin Podziemski   173 98   113        -15
Braxton Key          5   99   118        -19
Moses Moody          47  98   118        -20
Draymond Green       162 93   114        -21
Quinten Post         27  92   119        -27
Kevin Knox           14  98   126        -28
Pat Spencer          35  78   115        -37

Here's the regular season (the whole season, Butler was only around for the high level winning so his numbers are only based on that, not the .500 ball the team was playing for over half the season)...

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Player               MP   ORtg DRtg Ortg-Drtg
------               --   ---- ---- ---------
Reece Beekman        4    216  93         123
Yuri Collins         16   141  105         36
Jimmy Butler         980  136  113         23
Kevon Looney         1142 128  108         20
Gary Payton II       927  124  110         14
Trayce Jackson-Davis 967  125  111         14
Jackson Rowe         52   121  108         13
Kyle Anderson        541  118  109          9
Stephen Curry        2252 120  113          7
Gui Santos           762  118  113          5
Quinten Post         686  116  112          4
Brandin Podziemski   1716 116  112          4
Kevin Knox           84   116  112          4
Andrew Wiggins       1296 116  114          2
Moses Moody          1649 116  114          2
Draymond Green       1983 107  109         -2
De'Anthony Melton    121  106  110         -4
Jonathan Kuminga     1144 108  112         -4
Buddy Hield          1863 108  113         -5
Lindy Waters III     655  105  113         -8
Pat Spencer          250  103  111         -8
Dennis Schröder      628  99   114        -15
Braxton Key          11   54   99         -45


I hear that yet year after year they seem to be very good at showing who did well and who didn't since they try to extract the player's involvement in the offense / defense without giving EVERYONE credit for every play on the court.

It's almost like you can see who is or who isn't contributing to winning. Of course, there are low amounts of data for the fringe guys so they could be much higher or much lower than what they probably should be because of that.

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

So, you're saying a coach who has multiple championships as a coach and as a player is tanking GS's potential on purpose because he just doesn't like Kuminga, not because Kuminga refuses to do what he's asked to do?

For instance, let's say it's the last possession of game 7, down by 1 and Kuminga is on the court with Curry, I can't trust that Kuminga will do what it takes to run the offense or possibly try to get Curry open for a shot before Kuminga calls his own number.

I don't think many are saying Kuminga isn't talented (maybe nobody is, he is talented), the problem is that he wants to be able to call his own number whenever he wants and in 4 years in the NBA not being able to do that, he's still not willing to give in. He wants to be the main guy and I say, let him go be that main guy for a lot of money somewhere else.

That's not what I'm saying and I challenge you to find anything I wrote that would imply that.

What I am saying is, JK can play with Dray/Steph, despite the narrative on this board and other places. Kerr believed that JK couldn't play with Dray/Curry/Wigs but then changed his mind when the early lineup data or injuries or losses or all 3 started to pile up. In fact, I think if JK never got hurt, he would have played a ton w/ Jimmy and, eventually, found a way to fit with him as well, as he kinda did in the minny series. JK came back from his injury to a team playing very differently and Steve went away from JK before pulling the plug completely. THAT'S what I disagreed with. I think we could have used him in the clipper game, not to "turn the offense over" or whatever the strawman is. Just to guard kawhi on a few possessions and attack the rim when the offense slowed down. Same thing in the Mem play-in. Same thing to start the Hou series. The fact that he responded well and was able to come out firing tells me enough about his attitude and approach.

What I am also saying is that this whole "he thinks he's kobe" narrative is also overblown. Again, the lineup data suggests he plays better with Steph/Dray AND that Steph/Dray play better with JK than almost anyone else on the roster (ex. podz, i believe). In fact, I think JK would be fine as the 5th starter next to Dray/Jimmy/Steph or even as the 6th man, logging 25-35 minutes. He clearly wants to play and most people think he only wants to shoot. Getting DNP-CDs while the Gui Santos and Pat Spencers of the world get run in big games must have been infuriating especially as the team was losing those games as he watched from the bench.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

So, you're saying a coach who has multiple championships as a coach and as a player is tanking GS's potential on purpose because he just doesn't like Kuminga, not because Kuminga refuses to do what he's asked to do?

For instance, let's say it's the last possession of game 7, down by 1 and Kuminga is on the court with Curry, I can't trust that Kuminga will do what it takes to run the offense or possibly try to get Curry open for a shot before Kuminga calls his own number.

I don't think many are saying Kuminga isn't talented (maybe nobody is, he is talented), the problem is that he wants to be able to call his own number whenever he wants and in 4 years in the NBA not being able to do that, he's still not willing to give in. He wants to be the main guy and I say, let him go be that main guy for a lot of money somewhere else.

That's not what I'm saying and I challenge you to find anything I wrote that would imply that.

What I am saying is, JK can play with Dray/Steph, despite the narrative on this board and other places. Kerr believed that JK couldn't play with Dray/Curry/Wigs but then changed his mind when the early lineup data or injuries or losses or all 3 started to pile up. In fact, I think if JK never got hurt, he would have played a ton w/ Jimmy and, eventually, found a way to fit with him as well, as he kinda did in the minny series. JK came back from his injury to a team playing very differently and Steve went away from JK before pulling the plug completely. THAT'S what I disagreed with. I think we could have used him in the clipper game, not to "turn the offense over" or whatever the strawman is. Just to guard kawhi on a few possessions and attack the rim when the offense slowed down. Same thing in the Mem play-in. Same thing to start the Hou series. The fact that he responded well and was able to come out firing tells me enough about his attitude and approach.

What I am also saying is that this whole "he thinks he's kobe" narrative is also overblown. Again, the lineup data suggests he plays better with Steph/Dray AND that Steph/Dray play better with JK than almost anyone else on the roster (ex. podz, i believe). In fact, I think JK would be fine as the 5th starter next to Dray/Jimmy/Steph or even as the 6th man, logging 25-35 minutes. He clearly wants to play and most people think he only wants to shoot. Getting DNP-CDs while the Gui Santos and Pat Spencers of the world get run in big games must have been infuriating especially as the team was losing those games as he watched from the bench.

Wasted opportunity. The team needed someone to play minutes so the old guys didn’t break down. That’s on Kerr. It was sad seeing the players that played the right way couldn’t throw the ball into the ocean when Curry and Butler weren’t playing. Meanwhile JK who would have served that purpose in eating up some minutes while the stars rested.

[Twinkie defense]

JK for Alex Caruso.

[TB]

JK for Alex Caruso.

Lol we wish

Credit to Dun Jr though who had a Caruso deal signed and delivered and the Bulls backed out after agreeing…

Too late for that now.

[TB]

Watch on YouTube

Bleacher Reprt video on 6 possible Kuminga destinations:
Brooklyn
Chicago
Charlotte
New Orleans
Sacramento
Washington

Pretty crazy that Bleacher Report is such a large platform and is just throwing out trade ideas with zero understanding of the CBA rules with S&Ts.

[vvoland]

Watch on YouTube

Bleacher Reprt video on 6 possible Kuminga destinations:
Brooklyn
Chicago
Charlotte
New Orleans
Sacramento
Washington

Pretty crazy that Bleacher Report is such a large platform and is just throwing out trade ideas with zero understanding of the CBA rules with S&Ts.

I think BR just let's anyone write for them.

[cladden]

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

So, you're saying a coach who has multiple championships as a coach and as a player is tanking GS's potential on purpose because he just doesn't like Kuminga, not because Kuminga refuses to do what he's asked to do?

For instance, let's say it's the last possession of game 7, down by 1 and Kuminga is on the court with Curry, I can't trust that Kuminga will do what it takes to run the offense or possibly try to get Curry open for a shot before Kuminga calls his own number.

I don't think many are saying Kuminga isn't talented (maybe nobody is, he is talented), the problem is that he wants to be able to call his own number whenever he wants and in 4 years in the NBA not being able to do that, he's still not willing to give in. He wants to be the main guy and I say, let him go be that main guy for a lot of money somewhere else.

That's not what I'm saying and I challenge you to find anything I wrote that would imply that.

What I am saying is, JK can play with Dray/Steph, despite the narrative on this board and other places. Kerr believed that JK couldn't play with Dray/Curry/Wigs but then changed his mind when the early lineup data or injuries or losses or all 3 started to pile up. In fact, I think if JK never got hurt, he would have played a ton w/ Jimmy and, eventually, found a way to fit with him as well, as he kinda did in the minny series. JK came back from his injury to a team playing very differently and Steve went away from JK before pulling the plug completely. THAT'S what I disagreed with. I think we could have used him in the clipper game, not to "turn the offense over" or whatever the strawman is. Just to guard kawhi on a few possessions and attack the rim when the offense slowed down. Same thing in the Mem play-in. Same thing to start the Hou series. The fact that he responded well and was able to come out firing tells me enough about his attitude and approach.

What I am also saying is that this whole "he thinks he's kobe" narrative is also overblown. Again, the lineup data suggests he plays better with Steph/Dray AND that Steph/Dray play better with JK than almost anyone else on the roster (ex. podz, i believe). In fact, I think JK would be fine as the 5th starter next to Dray/Jimmy/Steph or even as the 6th man, logging 25-35 minutes. He clearly wants to play and most people think he only wants to shoot. Getting DNP-CDs while the Gui Santos and Pat Spencers of the world get run in big games must have been infuriating especially as the team was losing those games as he watched from the bench.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

[marthafokker]

Why is Kerr opening his mouth to tank JK's trade value? Kerr basically said he is a loser. We know Kerr hates him, but tanking his trade value?

[EvanZ]

I'm skeptical of a JK for Cam deal but I got some details from a cap expert on how it could work technically:

well that could be interesting because you don't have to match salary with the Nets - Brooklyn can just take Kuminga into cap space. The matching rules essentially don't apply to Brooklyn, all those matching rules only affect teams making trades over the cap.
Johnson also doesn't actually make that much - he used to, but his contract descends and his number for next year is only 21.06M for matching purposes. With the new expanded matching rules, any team wanting to trade for him only has to send out 12.53M outgoing.
Probably a little rich for Kuminga to get double that number in first-year salary, but there's a contract construction that could make sense there. 25.06M starting salary with 5% declines and maybe a non-guaranteed or team option year on the back end? 3/71 with the last year non-guaranteed? Or Kuminga is in there at a lower number, something that makes more sense for him, and they attach someone else to the deal to make it work. TJD at 2.22M would help the matching salary, then you only have to start Kuminga at 20.62M, something like 3/60 on the overall contract with a non-guarantee or partial guarantee in the third year.
12:49
Warriors just have to be careful with the apron, since Johnson counts for a lot on the apron due to unlikely bonuses, whereas Kuminga as a free agent doesn't count at all at the moment. Getting Johnson in this sort of deal would hard-cap them at the first apron, which could be limiting for filling out the roster.

[EvanZ]

Why is Kerr opening his mouth to tank JK's trade value? Kerr basically said he is a loser. We know Kerr hates him, but tanking his trade value?

Well the flip side is that he's tanking his re-signing value too.

[marthafokker]

Why is Kerr opening his mouth to tank JK's trade value? Kerr basically said he is a loser. We know Kerr hates him, but tanking his trade value?

Well the flip side is that he's tanking his re-signing value too.

Not according to Kerr stans. He won 4 championship, remember? He should be the next Pop.

On Curry's coat tail though... that is the truth.

[cpower]

I'm skeptical of a JK for Cam deal but I got some details from a cap expert on how it could work technically:

well that could be interesting because you don't have to match salary with the Nets - Brooklyn can just take Kuminga into cap space. The matching rules essentially don't apply to Brooklyn, all those matching rules only affect teams making trades over the cap.
Johnson also doesn't actually make that much - he used to, but his contract descends and his number for next year is only 21.06M for matching purposes. With the new expanded matching rules, any team wanting to trade for him only has to send out 12.53M outgoing.
Probably a little rich for Kuminga to get double that number in first-year salary, but there's a contract construction that could make sense there. 25.06M starting salary with 5% declines and maybe a non-guaranteed or team option year on the back end? 3/71 with the last year non-guaranteed? Or Kuminga is in there at a lower number, something that makes more sense for him, and they attach someone else to the deal to make it work. TJD at 2.22M would help the matching salary, then you only have to start Kuminga at 20.62M, something like 3/60 on the overall contract with a non-guarantee or partial guarantee in the third year.
12:49
Warriors just have to be careful with the apron, since Johnson counts for a lot on the apron due to unlikely bonuses, whereas Kuminga as a free agent doesn't count at all at the moment. Getting Johnson in this sort of deal would hard-cap them at the first apron, which could be limiting for filling out the roster.

i tried it in fanspo and extending JK starting 23M, and add TJD, it will be able to go through.

[Twinkie defense]

My operating assumption is the Warriors are going to be hard capped at the first apron again next season.

[Onus]

Kerr now saying jk is going to be at the warriors facility all summer this summer on Willard and dibs. The first summer he’ll be here in the bay all summer.

[AirP.]

Yes, and yet the lineup data (you can find that in the JK/Kerr fault poll thread) paint the picture that JK did very well with Steph and Dray on the court, particularly when paired with a podz and either moody/buddy.

Playing JK with our santa cruz bench mob was a terrible idea, both for the team's and JK's success.

So, you're saying a coach who has multiple championships as a coach and as a player is tanking GS's potential on purpose because he just doesn't like Kuminga, not because Kuminga refuses to do what he's asked to do?

For instance, let's say it's the last possession of game 7, down by 1 and Kuminga is on the court with Curry, I can't trust that Kuminga will do what it takes to run the offense or possibly try to get Curry open for a shot before Kuminga calls his own number.

I don't think many are saying Kuminga isn't talented (maybe nobody is, he is talented), the problem is that he wants to be able to call his own number whenever he wants and in 4 years in the NBA not being able to do that, he's still not willing to give in. He wants to be the main guy and I say, let him go be that main guy for a lot of money somewhere else.

That's not what I'm saying and I challenge you to find anything I wrote that would imply that.

What I am saying is, JK can play with Dray/Steph, despite the narrative on this board and other places. Kerr believed that JK couldn't play with Dray/Curry/Wigs but then changed his mind when the early lineup data or injuries or losses or all 3 started to pile up. In fact, I think if JK never got hurt, he would have played a ton w/ Jimmy and, eventually, found a way to fit with him as well, as he kinda did in the minny series. JK came back from his injury to a team playing very differently and Steve went away from JK before pulling the plug completely. THAT'S what I disagreed with. I think we could have used him in the clipper game, not to "turn the offense over" or whatever the strawman is. Just to guard kawhi on a few possessions and attack the rim when the offense slowed down. Same thing in the Mem play-in. Same thing to start the Hou series. The fact that he responded well and was able to come out firing tells me enough about his attitude and approach.

What I am also saying is that this whole "he thinks he's kobe" narrative is also overblown. Again, the lineup data suggests he plays better with Steph/Dray AND that Steph/Dray play better with JK than almost anyone else on the roster (ex. podz, i believe). In fact, I think JK would be fine as the 5th starter next to Dray/Jimmy/Steph or even as the 6th man, logging 25-35 minutes. He clearly wants to play and most people think he only wants to shoot. Getting DNP-CDs while the Gui Santos and Pat Spencers of the world get run in big games must have been infuriating especially as the team was losing those games as he watched from the bench.

The ask has been and continues to be... PLAY YOUR ROLE FOR THIS TEAM, quit calling your own number so often. This is why he doesn't play much. Can multiple high usage scorers work together, sure but over the long haul that's going to get complicated when the game is on the line and you have multiple players wanting to put up the last shot.

"I don't think there's a disagreement. I think that there is a different view from his perspective and what he's comfortable doing," Kerr said Thursday on 95.7 The Game's "Willard and Dibs." "Obviously, he's a natural scorer. You saw that in the Minnesota series when he got his opportunity. He scored really well. And that's what he's most comfortable doing.

"But with our team and the way we're built, with Steph and Jimmy [Butler], they're going to dominate the ball. [So] what we need from that spot is rebounding, passing, the connection, and yes, we need the scoring, but it has to come within the context of what we're really good at and what we're great at over the last two months with Jimmy and Steph."

https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/jonathan-kuminga-fit-concerns-steve-kerr/1851783/