OT - Pascal is the First Scoring Option on a Contender - Apologize To Pascal

[dkb964]

Is anyone able to summerize what the Raptors ended up with in totality regarding the Siakam trade to the Pacers? I believe the Raptors included at least one 2nd rounder in the deal on their end.

[Duffman100]

Is anyone able to summerize what the Raptors ended up with in totality regarding the Siakam trade to the Pacers? I believe the Raptors included at least one 2nd rounder in the deal on their end.

I thought it ended simply as Siakam for Ochai, Walter and Ingram.

[ash_k]

Is anyone able to summerize what the Raptors ended up with in totality regarding the Siakam trade to the Pacers? I believe the Raptors included at least one 2nd rounder in the deal on their end.

I thought it ended simply as Siakam for Ochai, Walter and Ingram.

and even after yesterday's game this "trade" is unbelievable value for Pascal.
And once all posters start seeing BI play every two days, they will all realize it.

[Brinbe]

Apologize for what? Typical troll crap from a troll poster. Pacers haven't even won anything yet lol. They may well get demolished by the Thunder.

And no one hated Pascal or pushed him out. It's perfectly fine to wish him well now after the fact. The Org just smartly made the decision to not pay him an insane supermax contract when we weren't in position to really contend and managed to get a good return for him in the end.

Maybe things would've been different if Dame agreed to come here or some other 1A superstar but that didn't happen. And as is you're already paying a Pascal/*insert superstar* and whoever else you want on this imagined roster like 200+ million into the lux tax for a team with zero probable depth to it.

Things turned out just fine.

[Madvillainy2004]

He's the same player that we've seen on the Raptors.....the Pacers just have a better well-balanced roster around him

He wasn't the 3pt shooter that he is now, so wasn't worth the max.

He’s probably very close to the same 3pt shooter he always was. He’s just:

-getting set up better because he has a better playmaker than he’s ever had (Hali)

-he’s taking his highest % of 3pa from the corner since 2018/19 season

-he’s been taking approximately 0% of his 3pt attempts after 3+ dribbles since he’s been in IND.

-on the Raptors he was taking around 10-15% of his 3’s after 3+ dribbles (the most difficult types of 3’s in the league)

He may have improved slightly but by most accounts he’s just getting better quality 3pt attempts.

I don't think it can be understated just how difficult we made his shot diet after 2019. Especially for 3 pointers we basically erased all his corner attempts for off the dribble above the break 3s. Indy is utilizing his skills in a much better way and he's always been a good #2 kinda guy.

[Madvillainy2004]

Is anyone able to summerize what the Raptors ended up with in totality regarding the Siakam trade to the Pacers? I believe the Raptors included at least one 2nd rounder in the deal on their end.

I thought it ended simply as Siakam for Ochai, Walter and Ingram.

and even after yesterday's game this "trade" is unbelievable value for Pascal.
And once all posters start seeing BI play every two days, they will all realize it.

Could easily be every 2 months lol

[ash_k]

I thought it ended simply as Siakam for Ochai, Walter and Ingram.

and even after yesterday's game this "trade" is unbelievable value for Pascal.
And once all posters start seeing BI play every two days, they will all realize it.

Could easily be every 2 months lol

Positive energy only please ! and we do have the McK of all this!

[OAKLEY_2]

Is anyone able to summerize what the Raptors ended up with in totality regarding the Siakam trade to the Pacers?l I believe the Raptors included at least one 2nd rounder in the deal on their end.

I thought it ended simply as Siakam for Ochai, Walter and Ingram.

Was hoping Walter was still on the board and dropping scenarios have been very kind to us. Paskal, OG... Walter. Ochai breaking out completely shocked me. Ingram if he gets healthy is a huge pick up. At least nobody says Trashskal anymore. Certainly not Draymond Green.

[OAKLEY_2]

Ignore my negative emoji fumbled the keystroke...

[MiamiSPX]

Apologize for what? Typical troll crap from a troll poster. Pacers haven't even won anything yet lol. They may well get demolished by the Thunder.

And no one hated Pascal or pushed him out. It's perfectly fine to wish him well now after the fact. The Org just smartly made the decision to not pay him an insane supermax contract when we weren't in position to really contend and managed to get a good return for him in the end.

Maybe things would've been different if Dame agreed to come here or some other 1A superstar but that didn't happen. And as is you're already paying a Pascal/*insert superstar* and whoever else you want on this imagined roster like 200+ million into the lux tax for a team with zero probable depth to it.

Things turned out just fine.

There are a handful of posters here who I think truly believe that it was the fans that traded Siakam lol.

[Troubadour]

The handling of Pascal Siakam by the Raptors will be one of the most consequential missteps in franchise history. Masai Ujiri ghosting him for a summer instead of negotiating an extension put them in a position where he had to be traded on an expiring deal at the deadline. Not because Siakam wouldn't have re-signed, but because they had let the relationship sour to the point where it was at least a question.

Darko Rajakovic using him like a spacing big and planting him in the corner was disgraceful and, of course, got changed once it became apparent that it was terrible strategy and Pascal Siakam was far and away the best player on the roster. Both management and the coaching staff treated him like an afterthought a year after making an All-NBA team.

At the core of all of this, though, is how management, the coaching staff, and ownership view Scottie Barnes. One by one, the core of the Raptors got pushed out in favour of creating room for Scottie Barnes to develop. Fred VanVleet was getting in the way of Scottie Barnes lead ballhandler reps, so they throw a half season away on that only to realize their best chance of winning basketball games is to run Fred x Poeltl pick and roll. Pascal Siakam was getting in the way of Scottie Barnes being the number one option. Too bad that meant Scottie Barnes was forced to create against opposing teams' best defenders. The result? His worst offensive season as a pro.

Where does that leave us? The Raptors are in search of a true lead ball handler and a number one scoring option and got lesser versions of VanVleet and Siakam in Quickley and Ingram. Has Scottie's standing with the organization changed? Of course not! He's still god's gift to basketball fans if you let MLSE and Darko tell it, but the path to stardom is even more uncertain. He's not the lead ball handler, he's not a go-to scoring option, he's an elite roaming defender and connective passer. Best case scenario, we're looking at Draymond Green who gets midpost isolation reps, and that's only because he gets special treatment as a "star".

If this team is not a top six seed next season, we need to stop with the fantasy that Scottie Barnes is a franchise player. Luckily for him, there are still many more excuses to be used. Ingram was unhealthy or underperforming, IQ is not a starting PG, Darko is a bad coach, the young players didn't develop, and more. Until this franchise starts treating Scottie Barnes like any other player and not a generational talent, we are going to be working to build and protect his reputation instead of winning games.

[MEDIC]

No way the Pacers should be making it to the NBA finals. It will be a shame.if the Knicks blow this.

OkC will crush Indy.

OKC will beat either in 5

I've got Pacers swept in 4.

Knicks beaten in 5 or 6.

Either way, I like that Knicks team a lot better. I find the Pacers lacking star power & are kind.of boring. I think Knicks/ OKC makes for aa much more interesting final.

[Rapsalot]

No apologies for clear eyed view that if you don’t live up to last contract we are not going to give you a big raise. That was my view and FO’s too. If you put better team and guards around him great. Fred was very good in backup role helping off bench and rotation on playoff team but not what team needed for OG and PS to do better. If anyone owes PS apology it is Fred or FO for not giving him better PG and C sooner.

[Tripod]

norm didn't fit the timeline
siakam didn't fit the timeline
fred didn't fit the timeline
og didn't fit the timeline

it's 2025 and they are all playing at career highs.

All playing as 2nd-4th options but 3 getting paid as 1b-2nd options.

It's OK to say we had good players but not the right mix....and didn't have the #1 option. And to get the #1 option, 1-2 of those guys had to be traded due to matching cap.

Certain people complained "Masai over rates his players" in trade talks. Well maybe he knew them best. But also knew he couldn't pay them all their money they would get.

I think last night was the most TNT talked about the Raptors since 2019. It was refreshing to hear and further cements how good the Championship team was.

[james vincent]

He’s an amazing 2nd option similar to the championship year. If he plays within that frame, then he’s great.

It turned to crap when he was forced to create with no spacing, redundant players (power forwards), and no one better than him (which Haliburton is).

It was a dysfunctional team with ill-fitting pieces and major conflicts of interest (contract extensions for 3-4 players).

Lastly, a coach in Nick Nurse that ran his starters into the ground (similar to what Tom Thibodeau’s doing to OG and the Knicks).

Finally, some circumstances were outside of the organization’s control aka COVID. However, masai misread the moment and it’s difficult developing while winning simultaneously.

They are facing this same dilemma adding Brandon Ingram and the #9 pick. Perhaps it’s an ownership concern; they want more people in the stands and glued to their tv sets.

When you own the team and it’s vertical channels, then there’s no incentive to continually lose and develop the team (especially when you’re losing revenue and profits annually).

TLDR: lack of team cohesion, synergy and organizational/ownership direction.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

He deserved better, they all did (all the guys we shafted for Scottie). But that’s the way it goes. Turns out, maybe Scottie’s not the top guy from that class or good enough to warrant moving off what we had, but that’s the risk. That’s the way she goes. I loved watching Fred, OG, Pascal hoop this post season, he’ll even GT jr. As time goes on, and you seem them lead other clubs, you realize we did have something special with that pre Scottie group. Wish they were all still here but that’s not how it works. Glad to see them still play meaningful ball. We’re down now, but they’ll been good Raps teams again in the future.


If Masai leaves, he leaves. I’m not worried.

[Quattro]

Tankers admit they're wrong about something? Sure. That's likely to happen.

[Boogie!]

Pascal was the one guy from that core that I always thought should’ve been a long term staple for this franchise. Can’t believe they disrespected him for Scottie Barnes.

[NinjaBro]

There's a new thread on the general board now asking if the Pascal trade was the most lopsided trade in recent memory. Go at em guys, I'm still banned.

[Tripod]

He deserved better, they all did (all the guys we shafted for Scottie). But that’s the way it goes. Turns out, maybe Scottie’s not the top guy from that class or good enough to warrant moving off what we had, but that’s the risk. That’s the way she goes. I loved watching Fred, OG, Pascal hoop this post season, he’ll even GT jr. As time goes on, and you seem them lead other clubs, you realize we did have something special with that pre Scottie group. Wish they were all still here but that’s not how it works. Glad to see them still play meaningful ball. We’re down now, but they’ll been good Raps teams again in the future.


If Masai leaves, he leaves. I’m not worried.

This isn't about Barnes. It's about PAYING that group.

FVV highest paid on team: 42.8
Siakam tied for highest paid on team 42.2
OG 2nd highest paid on team 36.6
120 million for 3 guys

All got paid. That puts them all in the top 31 paid guys this year. And all get to play with players better than them.

It's OK to say it worked out great for them while also acknowledging that together as a group, it wouldn't...and didn't work. With them as the top guys, they didn't deliver. That's OK. They all would up in great individual spots while getting big money. Good for them.

As for the Masai comment....he is the one who "over rates his players in trade talks". He knew those guys the best and what they were capable of...and not capable of. That's why he looked fir that #1 option in KD, Dame, and likely others we don't know about.

You should be worried of Masai is gone. Getting someone better is very, very unlikely.