Is Siakam trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

[ChumboChappati]

Siakam was traded from the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers in early 2024. Raptors got Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, 2 2024 FRPs & 1 conditional 2026 FRP. While Pacers got Pascal Siakam and 1 SRP.

Since then Pacers have gone to the East Finals twice, and this year they have a great chance to go to the NBA Finals.

In contrast, Raptors do not have much to show for it.
* Pacers did not trade any of their promising youngsters.
* Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr & 2026 FRP were traded in order to get Brandon Ingram & Ochai Agbaji.
* Brandon Ingram would have been available anyway in free agency to sign.
* Ochai Agbaji is nothing special.
* Jordan Nwora is out of the NBA.
* The 2 2024 FRPs they selected are also nothing special.

Is this trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

[Dan Z]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

[yoadknux]

No. While the talent level of Siakam is hard to come by in trades, Siakam was a 30 years old expiring, due for a max contract, with no guarentees he will even resign after a trade.
The Pacers 100% won that trade and Pascal was the best player on that 23-24 playoffs run, but mostly because everything clicked together (Haliburton, Nembhard/Nesmith stepping up in the playoffs, etc).
This reminds me of 03-04 when the Pistons traded for Sheed, he was a perfect match for them, but he wouldn't have worked for any team.
The only thing the Raps could have done better was trade him earlier when his value was higher, but they wanted to see if they can succeed with him as the #1.

[Childs]

It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….

[Boardbreaker]

Rent free

[Quattro]

Guy has no clue what they actually ended up getting in this trade. Won't even touch on the rest of the stupid uninformed garbage in his troll post. This one is no different than all the other ones he vomits onto this forum periodically.

Id be surprised if he can name 3 players on the team he's opining on.

[mademan]

Toronto just used those assets to get a similar level star, so im not sure they lost the trade. The rest of the NBA or at least the rest of the east lost. Nobody wanted to pay such a small price for a star level player and now Cleveland and New York's seasons are done (and the Bucks, but they were doing nothing anyways). You love to see it

[Mavrelous]

No, the way TOR and Siakam handled the situation made it very hard to teade value for him.

[FlatearthZorro]

Siakam was traded from the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers in early 2024. Raptors got Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, 2 2024 FRPs & 1 conditional 2026 FRP. While Pacers got Pascal Siakam and 1 SRP.

Since then Pacers have gone to the East Finals twice, and this year they have a great chance to go to the NBA Finals.

In contrast, Raptors do not have much to show for it.
* Pacers did not trade any of their promising youngsters.
* Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr & 2026 FRP were traded in order to get Brandon Ingram & Ochai Agbaji.
* Brandon Ingram would have been available anyway in free agency to sign.
* Ochai Agbaji is nothing special.
* Jordan Nwora is out of the NBA.
* The 2 2024 FRPs they selected are also nothing special.

Is this trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

No, Siakam is a pretty decent player, all-star type, he plays within his role. The Pacers are just crazy overachievers due to their style(and coach). Siakam is actually not better than JB(not cause I'm a C's fan, but because JB has dominated him whenever they've been matched up).
Pacers are an amazing team though, which is all that matters.

[Tripod]

The trade ended up being Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps. Ingram can be a 22+pt scorer, Ochai was drafted #15 3 years ago and shot 40% this year while being a good POA defender vs guards. Walter at #19 is a rookie so maybe give him time but he has shown flashes of being a starter level guy someday. His 3pt shooting got better every single month and shot over 40% the last 2 months....all while playing well defensively.

Masai did a great job turning those assets into their likely top scorer next year and possibly 2 3+D guards in the rotation. Of course Ingram's health is a concern...but fir all we know, he could be moved in the future for another deal.

It's funny because all Raps fans heard was "Masai over rates his players in trade talks". Maybe he knew how good they were and its the other GM's fault for not knowing it and stepping up to grab them.

[Zeno]

Trade works out as Pascal for Ingram, Agbaji and Walter. It depends a lot on how Ingrams value is or isn’t rehabilitated. There was reportedly quite a bit of trade interest in Occhai at the deadline though for what is a question. I think Walter looked good in his rookie season. But I won’t bother listing the worse trades because the list would be very long. At the time Pascal was being traded, I suggested Ingram for Pascal and it was negatively received on the trade board even if he wanted to extend. Player values fluctuate especially here.

[bkkrh]

Siakam was traded from the Toronto Raptors to the Indiana Pacers in early 2024. Raptors got Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr., Jordan Nwora, 2 2024 FRPs & 1 conditional 2026 FRP. While Pacers got Pascal Siakam and 1 SRP.

Since then Pacers have gone to the East Finals twice, and this year they have a great chance to go to the NBA Finals.

In contrast, Raptors do not have much to show for it.
* Pacers did not trade any of their promising youngsters.
* Bruce Brown, Kira Lewis Jr & 2026 FRP were traded in order to get Brandon Ingram & Ochai Agbaji.
* Brandon Ingram would have been available anyway in free agency to sign.
* Ochai Agbaji is nothing special.
* Jordan Nwora is out of the NBA.
* The 2 2024 FRPs they selected are also nothing special.

Is this trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

First off, it is pointless to evaluate a draft outcome based on who gets picked with future draft picks. Otherwise I could say that some of the most lopsided trades of all time are Steve Hayes for the future 2nd rounder that was used to draft Dennis Rodman, or Dan Gadzuric and Brandan Wright for Troy Murphy and the future 2nd rounder that was used to draft Draymond Green. I have no way to know if the original team would have picked the same player, or would have used it on a complete bust.

So similarly, I can't devalue a draft pick because a team didn't get value from the received draft picks. I can evaluate the quality of the picks (do they have protection, is it like that they become valuable and so on).

You are going even further and are evaluating future trades with the same players as well. I kind of get it, if it is a trade that kind of takes place shortly after the initial trade, but there is more than a year between the Siakam and the Ingram trade, so at that point I find it hard to still relate them.

Also, a lot of information you stated is simply wrong, or at least not complete.

I'm sure that there were no real expectations in Kira Lewis besides making the trade work salary wise. He was traded with Otto Porter Jr. and one of the 2024 1sts for Ochai Agbaji and Kelly Olynyk. Otto Porter retired at the end of the season and it was already clear that the 2024 pick will be a late one (turned out to be the 29th). So they used that pick to trade for Ochai Agbaji. While you say that he is nothing special he is actually one of the better defenders and has improved his offense immensely this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he is one of the best 3&D players in the league in 2-3 seasons. Olynyk has value has a veteran, being a good mentor and also Canadian. So I see this trade as a clear win for the Raps.

The other 1st rounder, the one they actually kept, Ja'Kobe Walter had a pretty decent Rookie season for a 19th pick. It's definitely way too early to determine if he will be a good NBA player or not.

Related to the Brandon Ingram trade. Again, personally I see too much distance between those trades, but since you mentioned it.They got him for Bruce Brown, Olynyk (who they got back in the Kira Lewis and Otto Porter trade), the 2026 pick and a 2nd rounder. The argument that they could have just signed him in the offseason makes no sense. First they would have needed to free up cap space (Olynyk would have still been on the books next season with 13 Million), next they would have had no guarantee that he actually signs with them. They could extend him already now on a flat contract, which is benefitial for them in the long run. Now it's of course a question if you want Brandon Ingram on your team in the first place, but based on where the Raptors are at the moment it definitely makes more sense for them to have the 4 year younger Ingram on their roster instead of Siakam.

So going with your trade logic, they turned Siakam into Ingram, Agbaji and Ja'Kobe Walter, which seems to me like a pretty solid outcome overall.

[ChumboChappati]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

why? no other team was ready to pay 40 mill for an injury prone soft player

[Dan Z]

The Raptors wouldn't have been able to sign Brandon Ingram as a free agent.

why? no other team was ready to pay 40 mill for an injury prone soft player

A Raptors fan can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but the Raptors didn't have cap space. Ingram wasn't going to sign for the MLE.

[Troubadour]

It's complete cope from Raptors fans that it's actually a Pascal for Ingram trade. The Raptors got lucky that Ingram had a five-month ankle sprain that tanked his value and there's still no sign that he is capable of leading a winning team.

[witnessraps]

Absolutely, as a raptors fan we did not get enough for siakam or OG and really we should've tried to keep them. Traded them to the worst places possible as well. I think Masai got overconfident and really he has destroyed the raptors. Barnes is overhyped. Facts

[TorontoBarneys]

It was an absolutely mediocre trade back then and it's suckage has only been amplified by now.

Ujiri simply waited way too long to ditch his old core. Got nothing for FVV, too. Terrible asset management.

[dkb964]

They traded Siakam a year to late but at the end of the day they got Ingram who is four years younger, Agbaji who is improving having shot 50% from the field and 40% from three last season and a nice prospect in Walter who showed promise as a rookie. It was not like teams were lining up to trade for Siakam and pay him a huge contract at the time. I think the Raptors did pretty well all things considered. The Bulls trading away the draft pick that became Franz Wagner, Carter Jr, and Howard who is still only 21 for a negative asset in Vučević was a far worse trade.

[Snakebites]

It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….

The fact that Ingram hasn't even played a game is a strike against the trade, not in favor of it.

[The Laker Kid]

Recency bias is insane. Just 4 months ago, there were several 500+ page threads about a certain very lopsided trade, now they all forgot about it.