Top 10 Offensive Players ever?

[ShotCreator]

Obviously Jokic is in these discussions, but to keep climbing he needs to produce all-time playoff offenses. He’s yet to have a +10 rORtg series.



On that note, for those having Curry at the very top or near that, he also has not produced as many all time playoff offenses especially in the non-Durant years relative to others on this list.

Good data but I really wouldn’t go as far as demanding all-time playoff offensive performances to have a rightful place in this list.

Jokic and first stint LeBron’s teams seem about equal on output.

No one has ever played as well as 09 LeBron in the playoffs, and his team failed to crack +10 ORTG twice.

I don’t think 16-18 LeBron did anything even close to enough to account for the team performance gap. I think he faced weaker defenses with better teammates. Jokic has had Murray twice in the past 4 playoffs, and he sucked in one of them.

Even Jordan’s offenses look better in his worse, older years it seems.

23 Nuggets had a pretty easy run, Murray played great, in fact the whole supporting cast did, and the Nuggets didn't light it up offensively in those playoffs either.

I think anchoring an all time great playoff offense should be a requirement. I think context can be considered, but a truly GOAT-level offensive player can elevate an offense to amazing heights almost by themselves, LeBron in 09 is actually a testament to that. The Cavs with him on the court had a relative ORating of like +9.8. Average for conference finalists is like +6. That's an all-time great offense.

What does an easy run imply? And doesn't the fact that they didn't reach these insane heights, mean the Nuggets role players didn't actually play that great?

Do you know the amount of absurd arguments this line of thinking can create? The idea that one guy can do +15 or even +20 oRTG on a playoff defense by himself.

It's asinine. Let's be serious here. And we're not talking on-court oRTGs. That's a different data set. The Cavs 09 and 10 team oRTG was meager, relative to say the 2016 and 2017 Cavs.

But that's what happens when you play Dwight and KG's defenses with Mo Williams and Delonte West as support players as opposed to the PG Pacers and Isaiah Thomas Celtics with prime Kyrie, Love, Smith and Korver shooting like possessed men off the attention you generate.

Is any serious person gonna hold not doing +20 oRTG on the 22 Warriors against Jokic when post-prime Will Barton and Monte Morris were his 2nd and 3rd options? I'm supposed to use that series as a defining stretch for a guy?

These insane +15 and +20 outburst almost certainly have to be aided by bad defense. Because it takes the 6th and 7th guys doing 70 TS%+ to complete that.

Off the top of my head I think of several teams that had no GOAT level offensive players that accomplished this kind of insane output. The 97 Rockets, the 90 and 91 Blazers. The 14 Spurs. The 2010 Orlando Magic. It's just not a good measurement for individual players.

[homecourtloss]

Thought I’d put these here. Currently working on Kareem, Oscar, West, Harden, Shaq, and CP3.

Jokic is light blue, LeBron is orange, curry is yellow, Jordan is red, Nash is light green, and Magic is purple

An update during these playoffs. Imgur isn’t letting me upload the new graph but we have:

Jokic:

vs. Clippers, 4.7
vs. Thunder, -1.9

Curry:

vs. Rockets, +1.3

LeBron

vs. Timberwolves, -1.6

Jokic compared to the other engines here has had lesser results in his peak/prime so far following 2023:

5.2 vs. TWolves
8.4 vs. Suns
9.4 vs. Lakers
0.9 vs. Heat
-1.0 vs. Lakers
-0.5 vs. TWolves
4.7 vs. Clippers
-1.9 vs. Thunder

LeBron from 2009 through 2020

Spoiler:

5
11.4
8.7
10.2
-0.8
5.8
8.8
2.9
2.9
11.9
3.5
10.9
11.9
5.8
10.9
12.1
6.9
9.8
11.2
18.7
2.4
7.1
8
10.9
-0.8
14.9
21.5
13.3
5.3
11
12.5
20
10.6
-2.6
21.4
2.5
0.9
0.6
6.5
7.1

Jordan from 1988 to 1998

Spoiler:

-9.5
3.9
8.3
-1.6
10
8.3
-2.1
8.8
10.8
17
10.7
15.8
7
1.2
6.6
10.8
10.4
12.7
6.3
6.1
4.7
15.2
1.7
11.9
9.2
10.8
12.6
3.4
0.6
10.8
3.6
12.6
0.1

Magic from 1984 to 1991

Spoiler:

3.5
12.3
6.7
7.6
17.8
10.7
9
6
14.5
8.7
-0.2
14.9
10.5
6.9
11.6
1.7
8
16.9
3.6
14.4
8.4
7.9
8.4
11.6
5.7
6.6
10.4
7.6
-0.7

Nash his whole playoff career

[Peregrine01]

Jokic’s off minutes in these playoffs and the last have almost entirely come during blowouts. On/off ORTGs just don’t mean much when stars are playing pretty much every competitive minute during the playoffs.