Is Siakam trade one of the most lopsided trades of recent times?

[PaulKellerman]

It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.

Toronto really can't attract FAs either though. It may be a big city but it's got a lot of drawbacks (taxes, climate etc). Toronto should be in the talent retention business, not making lateral moves IMHO.

Toronto is for sure not a free agent destination to say the least. Having heard an interview with Ingram prior to any idea of a trade to Toronto he listed the city in his top three to visit. Living there is different. I get that. It does appear that he wanted to play in Toronto which has never happened before from a US born player.

It's definitely better than Indy, no doubt (the food scene here is insane) but were I multimillionaire, I'd go somewhere warm and sunny. This recent stretch of sordid weather has done a number on my mental health and I've only been back for 48hours

[dkb964]

Toronto really can't attract FAs either though. It may be a big city but it's got a lot of drawbacks (taxes, climate etc). Toronto should be in the talent retention business, not making lateral moves IMHO.

Toronto is for sure not a free agent destination to say the least. Having heard an interview with Ingram prior to any idea of a trade to Toronto he listed the city in his top three to visit. Living there is different. I get that. It does appear that he wanted to play in Toronto which has never happened before from a US born player.

It's definitely better than Indy, no doubt (the food scene here is insane) but were I multimillionaire, I'd go somewhere warm and sunny. This recent stretch of sordid weather has done a number on my mental health and I've only been back for 48hours

I am not going to say what city is better or anything like that. It is just refreshing to see a US born player want to play in Canada is all. I am in Ottawa and the weather here has felt like fall and not the start of summer.

[PaulKellerman]

Toronto is for sure not a free agent destination to say the least. Having heard an interview with Ingram prior to any idea of a trade to Toronto he listed the city in his top three to visit. Living there is different. I get that. It does appear that he wanted to play in Toronto which has never happened before from a US born player.

It's definitely better than Indy, no doubt (the food scene here is insane) but were I multimillionaire, I'd go somewhere warm and sunny. This recent stretch of sordid weather has done a number on my mental health and I've only been back for 48hours

I am not going to say what city is better or anything like that. It is just refreshing to see a US born player want to play in Canada is all. I am in Ottawa and the weather here has felt like fall and not the start of summer.

Yeah, there are definitely pluses and things going for Toronto. If only Kawhi felt the same as BI

[dkb964]

It's definitely better than Indy, no doubt (the food scene here is insane) but were I multimillionaire, I'd go somewhere warm and sunny. This recent stretch of sordid weather has done a number on my mental health and I've only been back for 48hours

I am not going to say what city is better or anything like that. It is just refreshing to see a US born player want to play in Canada is all. I am in Ottawa and the weather here has felt like fall and not the start of summer.

Yeah, there are definitely pluses and things going for Toronto. If only Kawhi felt the same as BI

The Raptors were fortunate that Leonard bolted considering that he has not been able to stay remotely healthy during his time with the Clippers. Banners fly forever and that is all that matters to me as a fan of the Raptors. I cheered against Leonard for thr first few years in LA but then just starting feeling bad for the guy that his body broke down on him. At least he was able to play playoff ball this year.

[Sixers in 4]

Tatum for Fultz ++ says hello.

But yeah I consider the OG trade even more lopsided than the Siakam one. OG they got worse, screwed their longterm cap outlook, and didn't get any picks

They did get a draft pick and drafted Jonathan Mogbo. Quickley at just over 30M anually is not that bad. He has been banged up, which is not ideal, but 30M is going to be starter money over the course of his contract. Barrett has played his best ball since the trade to Toronto and makes less then 30M anually. Their long-term cap outlook is far from screwed. Both of those guys can play and are moveable.

Barrett maybe movable but you wouldn't get anything for him. Quickley contract isn't movable at all.

They are not supposed to be net zero either you gave up an asset in OG. You are supposed to get assets back. I meant to say no first rounders but honestly I forgot they got a 2nd rounder.

[PaulKellerman]

I am not going to say what city is better or anything like that. It is just refreshing to see a US born player want to play in Canada is all. I am in Ottawa and the weather here has felt like fall and not the start of summer.

Yeah, there are definitely pluses and things going for Toronto. If only Kawhi felt the same as BI

The Raptors were fortunate that Leonard bolted considering that he has not been able to stay remotely healthy during his time with the Clippers. Banners fly forever and that is all that matters to me as a fan of the Raptors. I cheered against Leonard for thr first few years in LA but then just starting feeling bad for the guy that his body broke down on him. At least he was able to play playoff ball this year.

In hindsight, Toronto would've been a better option for his legacy but he made an educated decision based on PG coming to play in LA and wanted to go home so it was worth a gamble. Toronto got their chip, Kawhi built his resume and went back to LA, his ultimate goal.

[dkb964]

Tatum for Fultz ++ says hello.

But yeah I consider the OG trade even more lopsided than the Siakam one. OG they got worse, screwed their longterm cap outlook, and didn't get any picks

They did get a draft pick and drafted Jonathan Mogbo. Quickley at just over 30M anually is not that bad. He has been banged up, which is not ideal, but 30M is going to be starter money over the course of his contract. Barrett has played his best ball since the trade to Toronto and makes less then 30M anually. Their long-term cap outlook is far from screwed. Both of those guys can play and are moveable.

Barrett maybe movable but you wouldn't get anything for him. Quickley contract isn't movable at all.

They are not supposed to be net zero either you gave up an asset in OG. You are supposed to get assets back. I meant to say no first rounders but honestly I forgot they got a 2nd rounder.

Paul George is unmoveable. Quickley is an asset. He struggled with injuries all year. I imagine you only watched the Raptors when they played the 76ers. I would rather have IQ at 30M then Maxey at whatever stupid money he is making. They are similar players. The 76ers just let him jack bad shots all game to the tune of 33% from three on the season.

[Tripod]

Tatum for Fultz ++ says hello.

But yeah I consider the OG trade even more lopsided than the Siakam one. OG they got worse, screwed their longterm cap outlook, and didn't get any picks

They did get a draft pick and drafted Jonathan Mogbo. Quickley at just over 30M anually is not that bad. He has been banged up, which is not ideal, but 30M is going to be starter money over the course of his contract. Barrett has played his best ball since the trade to Toronto and makes less then 30M anually. Their long-term cap outlook is far from screwed. Both of those guys can play and are moveable.

Barrett maybe movable but you wouldn't get anything for him. Quickley contract isn't movable at all.

They are not supposed to be net zero either you gave up an asset in OG. You are supposed to get assets back. I meant to say no first rounders but honestly I forgot they got a 2nd rounder.

Masai didn't want picks that he might have to wait years for. He wanted players entering their prime and got that.

Since the trades the Raps have yet to be able to show what they can actually do since Barnes(broke hand) and Yak got hurt last year then this year the Raps started the year with IQ, Olynyk, Brown and Walter hurt...then Barnes broke the bone in his face. So tanking became the plan.

How about we wait and see what happens this offseason then next year how they play. Masai has completely rebuilt the depth on this team in large part to those 2 trades and good drafting.

OG Achiuwa and Siakam

Ingram, IQ, RJ, Walter, Ochai, Mogbo were all via those 2 trades.

That's not bad at all for 2 expirings that lots of people on here said were overrated by Raptors fans in thread threads.

[Anticon]

People saying this was a bad trade need to go back and look at the chatter around Siakam. He was a much criticized player. No real market and a poor fit with most teams. Being paired with Turner (not to mention Hali + shooters) is key to his success. Plus Pascal's team did a good job of controlling his destination.

It wasn't a great return and they managed the trade poorly. But you can't say it was so imbalance when he had very few destinations and wasn't rated well around the league.

[NZB2323]

It’s not even close. Where were the Raptors going with Spicy P? What were other teams offering them?

This is a struggle rebuilding teams often have. The Raptors have a player like Spicy P who isn’t good enough to be the best player on a contender and is due for a big contract. Same with OG. Are they better off maxing those guys out and being over an apron or not able to give Scottie Barnes a big contract as they are in the play in?

For trades that are worse I would say every bad trade. Luka for AD, the draft picks that became Tatum and Brown for washed up Paul Pierce and washed up KG, Luka for Trae Young, everything the Clippers traded, including SGA, for Paul George, Ben Simmons for Harden, Tatum for Fultz, ect.

[duppyy]

When Siakam scores 10 points next game, what will the next thread be?

[TorontoBarneys]

They did get a draft pick and drafted Jonathan Mogbo. Quickley at just over 30M anually is not that bad. He has been banged up, which is not ideal, but 30M is going to be starter money over the course of his contract. Barrett has played his best ball since the trade to Toronto and makes less then 30M anually. Their long-term cap outlook is far from screwed. Both of those guys can play and are moveable.

Barrett maybe movable but you wouldn't get anything for him. Quickley contract isn't movable at all.

They are not supposed to be net zero either you gave up an asset in OG. You are supposed to get assets back. I meant to say no first rounders but honestly I forgot they got a 2nd rounder.

Paul George is unmoveable. Quickley is an asset. He struggled with injuries all year. I imagine you only watched the Raptors when they played the 76ers. I would rather have IQ at 30M then Maxey at whatever stupid money he is making. They are similar players. The 76ers just let him jack bad shots all game to the tune of 33% from three on the season.

Quickley is absolutely not an asset. His value is neutral at best. My god the cope.

[NO-KG-AI]

It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.

Toronto really can't attract FAs either though. It may be a big city but it's got a lot of drawbacks (taxes, climate etc). Toronto should be in the talent retention business, not making lateral moves IMHO.

Toronto is for sure not a free agent destination to say the least. Having heard an interview with Ingram prior to any idea of a trade to Toronto he listed the city in his top three to visit. Living there is different. I get that. It does appear that he wanted to play in Toronto which has never happened before from a US born player.

Ingram is pretty easy going, I think he’ll be happy anywhere he is paid and is embraced by the FO and fans. He doesn’t seem interested at all in chasing the ESPn favored markets

[dkb964]

Barrett maybe movable but you wouldn't get anything for him. Quickley contract isn't movable at all.

They are not supposed to be net zero either you gave up an asset in OG. You are supposed to get assets back. I meant to say no first rounders but honestly I forgot they got a 2nd rounder.

Paul George is unmoveable. Quickley is an asset. He struggled with injuries all year. I imagine you only watched the Raptors when they played the 76ers. I would rather have IQ at 30M then Maxey at whatever stupid money he is making. They are similar players. The 76ers just let him jack bad shots all game to the tune of 33% from three on the season.

Quickley is absolutely not an asset. His value is neutral at best. My god the cope.

This is fair. He is coming off of a season where he only played 33 games. A better way to have worded it would have been that he has the ability to make himself an asset if he is able to stay healthy next season and play to his capabilities.

[___Rand___]

The trade ended up being Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps. Ingram can be a 22+pt scorer, Ochai was drafted #15 3 years ago and shot 40% this year while being a good POA defender vs guards. Walter at #19 is a rookie so maybe give him time but he has shown flashes of being a starter level guy someday. His 3pt shooting got better every single month and shot over 40% the last 2 months....all while playing well defensively.

Masai did a great job turning those assets into their likely top scorer next year and possibly 2 3+D guards in the rotation. Of course Ingram's health is a concern...but fir all we know, he could be moved in the future for another deal.

It's funny because all Raps fans heard was "Masai over rates his players in trade talks". Maybe he knew how good they were and its the other GM's fault for not knowing it and stepping up to grab them.

Bro, the other end of the trade "Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps" was due to Masai and Bobby's work, and LUCK that Ingram was available to take the capspace left by Pascal. Ochai and Walter's values have yet to be established. I'm not convinced yet that they'll pan out and become starting-calibre players in the NBA. What we got were middling picks and go by the stats, picks don't usually work. Ingram didn't "come" in that trade. Ochai didn't "come" with that trade. Neither did Walter - it took other trades and work - the "value added" by Bobby and Masai. In the hands of another GM, those picks will end up being Wiseman or Anthony Bennett or Malachi Flynn.

NBA fans need to stop discussing what "happened" down the road as "values" from trades, because you can have a chain that goes down several decades if going by that logic.

Oh yes ..an unbiased opinion by the guy with a Toronto Craptors avatar...lol.

Of course you look at the entire picture because that is the clearest picture. Masai got assets, and turned them into other assets....3 assets that will be in the rotation next year.

As I said earlier, other GM's didn't outbid that Pacers offer. Do people forget the crap Atl and Sac offers? Masai got the best deal he could with flexible movability within those assets and moved them all.

Again, what you have pointed out is Masai and Bobby's WORK in turning those picks into greater value. It's not the value that came with the picks.

[baller16]

Ujiri is way past his expiry as a top executive. That Ingram play will not work out as intended and Pascal is a much better player. They should have gotten a better return for him

It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.

And who's fault is that? Majority of the fanbase wanted Siakam & OG traded a season earlier but Masai refused to because he didn't want to tank. No team is going to waste assets on a half season rental.

[Optms]

Count me also as forgetting Ingram being a Raptor was a thing

[Thaddy]

It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….

The fact that Ingram hasn't even played a game is a strike against the trade, not in favor of it.

It's pretty obvious he was held out for tanking purposes.

The trade could have been better for Toronto but they got Ingram, Walter, and it made getting Shead and some other pieces like Agbaji possible. There have been worse trades and next season there's a very real possibility that Ingram is better than Pascal. If Walter, Shead, and Agbaji turn into high level role players it adds to the value stemming from the P trade.

[nikster]

I thought this was strange coming from OP, I was pretty sure he used to bash Siakam

All these quotes are from 2023 btw:

LOL. There is no snub of Siakam. He is just stats padding on a loser team. Not an all-star in any way

.

Siakam for Claxton + Cam Thomas

I say trade him (Wiseman) and Wiggins for Siakam

[Pointgod]

Not one of the most lopsided trades in history but still a pretty bad trade where the Raptors traded Siakam for 20 cents on the dollar.

Brown and 3 picks outside of the lottery is a pretty **** return.