OT - Pascal is the First Scoring Option on a Contender - Apologize To Pascal

[WaltFrazier]

Pascal had a great game 2 for sure. In game 1 he had a quiet 17 in a game they should have lost but was saved by NYK lapses and Nesmith crazy hot shooting. I love Pascal but he's not the guy to get 30+ every game in a series like MJ or 2019 Kawhi.

[Scott Hall]

norm didn't fit the timeline
siakam didn't fit the timeline
fred didn't fit the timeline
og didn't fit the timeline

it's 2025 and they are all playing at career highs.

All playing as 2nd-4th options but 3 getting paid as 1b-2nd options.

It's OK to say we had good players but not the right mix....and didn't have the #1 option. And to get the #1 option, 1-2 of those guys had to be traded due to matching cap.

Certain people complained "Masai over rates his players" in trade talks. Well maybe he knew them best. But also knew he couldn't pay them all their money they would get.

I think last night was the most TNT talked about the Raptors since 2019. It was refreshing to hear and further cements how good the Championship team was.

The title team was great. It's odd to me how you never hear the media say, why did that team fall apart so soon. Kawhi is the obvious answer, but it still has to be one of the worst jobs of keeping a championship core going

Gasol, Ibaka, Lowry and Green were all on their last legs that team was built for a good time not a long time.

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[Tha Cynic]

Apologize for what? Typical troll crap from a troll poster. Pacers haven't even won anything yet lol. They may well get demolished by the Thunder.

And no one hated Pascal or pushed him out. It's perfectly fine to wish him well now after the fact. The Org just smartly made the decision to not pay him an insane supermax contract when we weren't in position to really contend and managed to get a good return for him in the end.

Maybe things would've been different if Dame agreed to come here or some other 1A superstar but that didn't happen. And as is you're already paying a Pascal/*insert superstar* and whoever else you want on this imagined roster like 200+ million into the lux tax for a team with zero probable depth to it.

Things turned out just fine.

Yeah on the one hand we have people complaining that we kept these guys for too long and got lower value and on the other hand we have people complaining that we traded them away. There’s no doubt Masai loved those guys and wanted them to work out.

I think it became apparent OG was leaving and imo that’s most likely why Masai decided to trade both away. We have zero clue what was happening behind the scenes but some posters here have been making very one sided comments as if Masai just got unhappy with these guys for no reason. He just out of nowhere decided he was going to ghost Siakam?

[ItsDanger]

One team has Haliburton, the other had Vanvleet. Haliburton career TS is 60.6%, Vanvleet 54.4%. Let alone, the size and shot creation differences.

Siakam is in his ideal role now, it wasn't happening here.

[Jcity08]

:lol: Apologize? For what, he was used as a 1st option on this team which is a role he clearly didnt fit. He was always best used behind a true #1 like Kawhi and now Hali. He is a 2nd or 3rd option and we werent going to pay him as a 1st option.

I blame Masai for waiting so long to actually get him dealt but honestly it looked like there were personal reasons that went beyond basketball for Masai.

That mid duo of Siakam & FVV should have been dealt earlier in hindsight (don't want to look past that many of us wanted them dealt well before the date of the actual trade).

Haliburton isn't a "true number one" like Kawhi. He's an elite PG who creates for others. The Pacers have an elite system and they maximize their talent. They do what people think Darko does.

Also if you score 39 points on the road in MSG in the Eastern Conference Finals, you're a max guy. I don't make the rules.

Im glad you dont make the rules because they're dumb and leave out context. He can score when he has a genuine point guard next to him and isnt the primary focus of the opposing defense.

Feel however you want about Hali but that team goes only as far as it does because he's the focal point of that team and he maximizes the guys around him like a true point.

[Troubadour]

Pascal had a great game 2 for sure. In game 1 he had a quiet 17 in a game they should have lost but was saved by NYK lapses and Nesmith crazy hot shooting. I love Pascal but he's not the guy to get 30+ every game in a series like MJ or 2019 Kawhi.

It's funny how praise for Pascal Siakam gets dismissed because he's not a Top 5 player of all-time and criticism of Scottie Barnes gets dismissed for setting the expectations too high. Just something I notice.

[Troubadour]

:lol: Apologize? For what, he was used as a 1st option on this team which is a role he clearly didnt fit. He was always best used behind a true #1 like Kawhi and now Hali. He is a 2nd or 3rd option and we werent going to pay him as a 1st option.

I blame Masai for waiting so long to actually get him dealt but honestly it looked like there were personal reasons that went beyond basketball for Masai.

That mid duo of Siakam & FVV should have been dealt earlier in hindsight (don't want to look past that many of us wanted them dealt well before the date of the actual trade).

Haliburton isn't a "true number one" like Kawhi. He's an elite PG who creates for others. The Pacers have an elite system and they maximize their talent. They do what people think Darko does.

Also if you score 39 points on the road in MSG in the Eastern Conference Finals, you're a max guy. I don't make the rules.

Im glad you dont make the rules because they're dumb and leave out context. He can score when he has a genuine point guard next to him and isnt the primary focus of the opposing defense.

Feel however you want about Hali but that team goes only as far as it does because he's the focal point of that team and he maximizes the guys around him like a true point.

Pascal Siakam still draws the hardest defensive match-up. He and Haliburton are the only players on the Pacers who get isolation touches with any regularity on the Pacers. Obfuscate it however you want, but he's a critical piece on a team that is two games away from the NBA Finals.

And that other star on the team is only one year older than Scottie Barnes. Pressure is on for him to deliver, especially now that Scottie isn't the lead ball handler or the primary wing scorer. He just has to be a star role player. Perfect situation for him to get all of the credit and none of the blame.

[canada_dry]

Noone thought he was a true #1. Theres ZERO reason to debate that in here.

The lies started when:

-Fools said hes not even a number 2 option. More like a #3(still seeing some of that in this thread)

-lies about him getting in scotties way.

-scottie mafia trashing him, vilifying him and forcing him out the door.

Apologies for the above are necessary

And if we're being honest masai needs to give Pascal an apology too for not giving the teams he lead ANY type of depth or bench allowing Pascal to get judged by these goons while he had such an incomplete team to work with. And then burning bridges on the way out. Pascal was treated awfully.

The trade itself after all the dust settled turned out to be ok with what we got(ochai walter and ingram) but that's because masai pulled a rabbit out his backside. Pascal trade value was at its lowest due to all of the above and we still had to trade him because we were left with no other options.

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[ForeverTFC]

Reading this thread, I have to assume most of you missed game 1 and didnt see Pascal deferring, afraid to shoot, and not creating anything for himself. If they lost that game, it would have been on him.

I’m a massive Pascal fan. Just as his haters lost the plot and let emotions get the better of them, some of the supporters here are hysterical with rose colored glasses on. We tried Pascal as a first option. It didn’t work. He deserved every chance we gave him, but let’s not pretend we didn’t give him the chance. The FO tried to bring Dame in as a first option to make the team work. Once that was done, this team was done.

[JCP11]

I've always loved Pascal and I wished we didn't trade him but what we're seeing from him is the same we've seen in Toronto. He's not a true #1, he will have games like yesterday but you can't count on him to be the man consistently. Being in this deep roster helps him get away with the inconsistency of his performances.

In Toronto he was asked to be the man and he couldn't do it every game, nothing has changed in Indy. Yes he draws the biggest defensive matchup but Indy can survive his off games because they have so many guys, perfect situation for him .

[Clay Davis]

Reading this thread, I have to assume most of you missed game 1 and didnt see Pascal deferring, afraid to shoot, and not creating anything for himself. If they lost that game, it would have been on him.

I’m a massive Pascal fan. Just as his haters lost the plot and let emotions get the better of them, some of the supporters here are hysterical with rose colored glasses on. We tried Pascal as a first option. It didn’t work. He deserved every chance we gave him, but let’s not pretend we didn’t give him the chance. The FO tried to bring Dame in as a first option to make the team work. Once that was done, this team was done.

I agree "ForeverTFC". Very accurate depiction of the rizz of the BIG SEXXER MASTER FLEXXER, Pascal Siakam, known for his affection for BIG BOOTY MILFS.

I love Pascal. He's an amazing defender, amazing finisher on the fastbreak, kills mismatches like no other, but he has weaknesses. He was never going to be close to being the Kawhi replacement that we needed, and that's okay. I'm really happy to see him succeed and I really hope he wins a championship. That being said I think his weaknesses will be exploited by OKC if they both reach the Finals; Pascal feasts in the paint/midrange area, and that's precisely where Chet Holmgren is the most powerful as a man-defender. Pascal is great when he can find a weird angle and get a shot off, but that's unlikely to happen against a big who's quick on his feet and exceptionally tall. All things being as they are, Chet Holmgren simply seems like a very good defensive cover for Siakam. This, combined with the fact that OKC plays the passing lanes better than any other team, make for a match-up that seems (at least on first sight) to be slated very strongly in favour of the Thundahhhhhhhh.

Maybe I'm wrong, though.

[Jcity08]

Haliburton isn't a "true number one" like Kawhi. He's an elite PG who creates for others. The Pacers have an elite system and they maximize their talent. They do what people think Darko does.

Also if you score 39 points on the road in MSG in the Eastern Conference Finals, you're a max guy. I don't make the rules.

Im glad you dont make the rules because they're dumb and leave out context. He can score when he has a genuine point guard next to him and isnt the primary focus of the opposing defense.

Feel however you want about Hali but that team goes only as far as it does because he's the focal point of that team and he maximizes the guys around him like a true point.

Pascal Siakam still draws the hardest defensive match-up. He and Haliburton are the only players on the Pacers who get isolation touches with any regularity on the Pacers. Obfuscate it however you want, but he's a critical piece on a team that is two games away from the NBA Finals.

And that other star on the team is only one year older than Scottie Barnes. Pressure is on for him to deliver, especially now that Scottie isn't the lead ball handler or the primary wing scorer. He just has to be a star role player. Perfect situation for him to get all of the credit and none of the blame.

Siakam these playoffs has had 75% of his FGs assisted, Haliburton on the other hand only has had 32% of his FGs assisted and the majority of his buckets are unassisted.

Spoiler:

Siakam literally owes everything to the role he has been placed, he is the quintessential role player and has relied on his team to get him in his spots. Im glad he's found the right team with multiple shooters that space the floor wide enought to make it easy for him to find gaps in the defense while Hali has to be the one drawing in the D and finding him open.

[Scase]

He's an elite #2, always has been. Nothing has changed that this playoff run or the last.

[canada_dry]

He's an elite #2, always has been. Nothing has changed that this playoff run or the last.

You're one of the ones who loudly and consistently said he's barely a 2nd option moreso a 3rd option, after he got traded consistently spoke out against him and how the pacers were mid even after the trade... now its "hes an elite 2nd option and nothing has changed. "

What has changed is your tune.

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[WaltFrazier]

Pascal had a great game 2 for sure. In game 1 he had a quiet 17 in a game they should have lost but was saved by NYK lapses and Nesmith crazy hot shooting. I love Pascal but he's not the guy to get 30+ every game in a series like MJ or 2019 Kawhi.

It's funny how praise for Pascal Siakam gets dismissed because he's not a Top 5 player of all-time and criticism of Scottie Barnes gets dismissed for setting the expectations too high. Just something I notice.

I'm not dismissing Pascal, he had a great game. Their team is well built in the sense that he can go off one game, Haliburton another, sometimes a lower tier guy like Nesmith.

Scottie is not the same kind of player as Pascal, even less of a scorer. But he'd contribute well on a deeper team with scorers around him

[Scase]

He's an elite #2, always has been. Nothing has changed that this playoff run or the last.

You're one of the ones who loudly and consistently said he's barely a 2nd option moreso a 3rd option, after he got traded consistently spoke out against him and how the pacers were mid even after the trade... now its "hes an elite 2nd option and nothing has changed. "

What has changed is your tune.

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I have always been of the mindset he was a number 2.

[Tripod]

norm didn't fit the timeline
siakam didn't fit the timeline
fred didn't fit the timeline
og didn't fit the timeline

it's 2025 and they are all playing at career highs.

All playing as 2nd-4th options but 3 getting paid as 1b-2nd options.

It's OK to say we had good players but not the right mix....and didn't have the #1 option. And to get the #1 option, 1-2 of those guys had to be traded due to matching cap.

Certain people complained "Masai over rates his players" in trade talks. Well maybe he knew them best. But also knew he couldn't pay them all their money they would get.

I think last night was the most TNT talked about the Raptors since 2019. It was refreshing to hear and further cements how good the Championship team was.

The title team was great. It's odd to me how you never hear the media say, why did that team fall apart so soon. Kawhi is the obvious answer, but it still has to be one of the worst jobs of keeping a championship core going

Kawhi and age.

Having your #1 guy leave then having Gasol, Serge and Lowry at their ages...it was never going to be a long run. Masai saw an opening and took it.

More time should be spent how he grew those lead up teams and having the guts to go all in.

[SuppaSlick]

Pascal > Ingram.

We don't have any number one options on our team. This year is going to likely be a mess

[Coco Costanza]

[Vampirate]

He's an elite #2, always has been. Nothing has changed that this playoff run or the last.

The longer time goes on, the more you see just how far Siakam is ahead of Derozan overall.