Giannis Thread - 13th Season with the Bucks

[Finn]

I don't care how much trading him could restart a rebuild. I want him in Milwaukee until he retires. His presence is more than having the best player in the league on a team. It is a sign that great players can stay loyal to small markets, and that players don't need to change markets to have global impact. You can move anyone on the team, except Giannis. He is the best player in the history of our franchise and he took our franchise to the promised land.

Exactly.

And to me, he is culturally important and has a chance to affect the zeitgeist in a completely different way than we've seen.

We absolutely cannot treat him simply as a basketball asset. Stepping back to appreciate this: we've suffered for so long and were bestowed a gift - it's basically a miracle that a 15th pick flyer in a bad draft somehow entered the GOAT conversation *and* delivered us a title, while proclaiming that "My city's a champion."

To throw that back would be a total affront to whatever led him here.

A lot of people here are seeing him as just a basketball player, but he's almost a symbol (and the world could use some good ones), a cultural touchstone for Milwaukee, and for a kind of cosmic fortune/justice (if you will) that the Bucks have never experienced, and may never again. Greek mythology almost.

Even if it made sense strategically to trade him (and I don't think it does), it'd be like rejecting the miracle that made us relevant in a league that doesn't want us to be. So in a way, it's an act of defiance also. Trading him makes Silver win. So f that ****.

I just wish I could convey this effectively without sounding like a crazy person.

All I'm trying to say is that what Giannis accomplished on & off the court in Milwaukee isn't negated if he moves on to some other team & wins multiple championships.

I'm a fan of the Bucks over any player. I want what's best for the team. I'm not smart enough to know what that is. But in my layman's opinion, if the team truly received a haul which would kickstart another decade of good to excellent basketball by trading Giannis, that's what I would do. Do I believe the current braintrust can do that, no, I don't.

And everyone needs to take RS's advice - ignore the crap that the media is spreading.

[JonHeist]

On the whether Giannis requested a trade front:

Truth is, if Giannis did request a trade, the Bucks would likely keep it totally quiet so that all parties wouldn't have to deal with the public noise. Bucks target their preferred packages and negotiate quietly, telling the teams that they'll blow it up if anything is leaked.

Gery reported that the Bucks invited the top 8 players in the draft to Milwaukee to scout them. We don't even have a first round pick as of now. Perhaps that was due diligence, but it could also be a sign that they are indeed shopping him.

Gery said it so there's at least a 51% chance it's completely made up

[JonHeist]

In 2015 Steph and Klay changed the league with the three point shot.

Ten years later we’re entering a new era of speed and athleticism.

Jon Horst has shown no ability to find and identify such players. This is our biggest problem right now. Much bigger than Doc.

Horst just drafted the fastest player who had positional size & a shooting foundation. Was seemingly compelled to trade him by Doc. So I'd say Doc's the bigger problem for that & not deploying his better acquisitions. But definitely Horst still needs to get better in trade value & drafting.

yeah I'm sorry, but the bolded part isn't even kind of true

if anything he noticed this new trend a little early

his last four draft picks are all fast/athletic for their position (MJB/Ajax/AJJ/TSmith)

he traded for one of the fastest PGs (kevin) in the league and fastest Cs (sims) in the league at the deadline

and khris for kuzma was also obviously a speed upgrade

....then we played the pacers just as close as the juggernaut cavs did, and maybe closeer than the knicks will, and that's despite dame being a net-negative (.278 eFG% ffs) in the 75 minutes he was on the floor

[blazza18]

Woelfel gets stuff very few people get in this market but I’d be pretty shocked if no one else has heard of us bringing in early first round guys.

[BigO]

Woelfel gets stuff very few people get in this market but I’d be pretty shocked if no one else has heard of us bringing in early first round guys.

Woelful has nothing left in the tank. The story has isn't believabe and coming from him it's even less so.

[emunney]

I'd say that getting a closer look at the top guys in the draft is a hidden benefit of ESPN's breathless speculation. It's an opportunity but doesn't mean anything about our intentions. You never know when the information we get from those workouts will come in handy. They could inform what we would and wouldn't do with a Giannis trade, or what we might do 3 years from now when some of those guys fall out of favor with the teams who draft them.

[BigO]

In 2015 Steph and Klay changed the league with the three point shot.

Ten years later we’re entering a new era of speed and athleticism.

Jon Horst has shown no ability to find and identify such players. This is our biggest problem right now. Much bigger than Doc.

Horst just drafted the fastest player who had positional size & a shooting foundation. Was seemingly compelled to trade him by Doc. So I'd say Doc's the bigger problem for that & not deploying his better acquisitions. But definitely Horst still needs to get better in trade value & drafting.

yeah I'm sorry, but the bolded part isn't even kind of true

if anything he noticed this new trend a little early

his last four draft picks are all fast/athletic for their position (MJB/Ajax/AJJ/TSmith)

he traded for one of the fastest PGs (kevin) in the league and fastest Cs (sims) in the league at the deadline

and khris for kuzma was also obviously a speed upgrade

....then we played the pacers just as close as the juggernaut cavs did, and maybe closeer than the knicks will, and that's despite dame being a net-negative (.278 eEG% ffs) in the 75 minutes he was on the floor

Give me one Khris Middleton over the fast and athletic players any day. It's basketball on a defined and limited court. Not a track meet.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Horst just drafted the fastest player who had positional size & a shooting foundation. Was seemingly compelled to trade him by Doc. So I'd say Doc's the bigger problem for that & not deploying his better acquisitions. But definitely Horst still needs to get better in trade value & drafting.

yeah I'm sorry, but the bolded part isn't even kind of true

if anything he noticed this new trend a little early

his last four draft picks are all fast/athletic for their position (MJB/Ajax/AJJ/TSmith)

he traded for one of the fastest PGs (kevin) in the league and fastest Cs (sims) in the league at the deadline

and khris for kuzma was also obviously a speed upgrade

....then we played the pacers just as close as the juggernaut cavs did, and maybe closeer than the knicks will, and that's despite dame being a net-negative (.278 eEG% ffs) in the 75 minutes he was on the floor

Give me one Khris Middleton over the fast and athletic players any day. It's basketball on a defined and limited court. Not a track meet.

yeah..no. and i love khris.

his time is past tho man good lord.. the last thing this team needs is a gimpy, slow, occasionally effective dribble post to face up scorer who feels good every third week when hes "healthy"

does he know how to play...high iq... sweet stroke? goddam right. me too at age 53. the young bouncy athletic types with little upside i used to destroy? yeah once i realized i had no advantage i quit playing....permanently.

anybody who enjoys this game once theyre athleticism is gone wasnt any good to begin with. thats a fact.

playing this game when you cant explode ...yeah have fun....youre a bum....play at the Y

khirs needs to focus on his golf game and not getting fat and drinking to much. wont change a bit what he did when he was young.

[BigO]

yeah I'm sorry, but the bolded part isn't even kind of true

if anything he noticed this new trend a little early

his last four draft picks are all fast/athletic for their position (MJB/Ajax/AJJ/TSmith)

he traded for one of the fastest PGs (kevin) in the league and fastest Cs (sims) in the league at the deadline

and khris for kuzma was also obviously a speed upgrade

....then we played the pacers just as close as the juggernaut cavs did, and maybe closeer than the knicks will, and that's despite dame being a net-negative (.278 eEG% ffs) in the 75 minutes he was on the floor

Give me one Khris Middleton over the fast and athletic players any day. It's basketball on a defined and limited court. Not a track meet.

yeah..no. and i love khris.

his time is past tho man good lord.. the last thing this team needs is a gimpy, slow, occasionally effective dribble post to face up scorer who feels good every third week when hes "healthy"

does he know how to play...high iq... sweet stroke? goddam right. me too at age 53. the young bouncy athletic types with little upside i used to destroy? yeah once i realized i had no advantage i quit playing....permanently.

anybody who enjoys this game once theyre athleticism is gone wasnt any good to begin with. thats a fact. playing this game when you cant explode ...if you enjoy it....youre a bum....play at the Y

but again...good players get fat when theyre old. they know

I played 4 times a week full court thru my mid fifties, when finally my hips were destroyed and when I had broken every finger on my hand multiple times. I have two artificial hips and plates and screws in my hands.

My friends and I played against guys less than half my age, many of whom had recently played high school ball and were obviously more athletic than any of us. We beat them regularly.

The point is that my friends and I loved every minute of playing ball,despite not having any athleticism. In fact, it could be argued we never did have any athleticism. But we could pass and shoot and enjoyed the game until we literally couldn't survive on the court.

I love the game.

[Profound23]

In 2015 Steph and Klay changed the league with the three point shot.

Ten years later we’re entering a new era of speed and athleticism.

Jon Horst has shown no ability to find and identify such players. This is our biggest problem right now. Much bigger than Doc.

Horst just drafted the fastest player who had positional size & a shooting foundation. Was seemingly compelled to trade him by Doc. So I'd say Doc's the bigger problem for that & not deploying his better acquisitions. But definitely Horst still needs to get better in trade value & drafting.

AJJ could you Excel or fizzle out, but you have to believe there was some other trade out there were you get a player equal to Kuzma on a similar contract with only giving up Middleton.

[JonHeist]

Spoiler:

Give me one Khris Middleton over the fast and athletic players any day. It's basketball on a defined and limited court. Not a track meet.

yeah..no. and i love khris.

his time is past tho man good lord.. the last thing this team needs is a gimpy, slow, occasionally effective dribble post to face up scorer who feels good every third week when hes "healthy"

does he know how to play...high iq... sweet stroke? goddam right. me too at age 53. the young bouncy athletic types with little upside i used to destroy? yeah once i realized i had no advantage i quit playing....permanently.

anybody who enjoys this game once theyre athleticism is gone wasnt any good to begin with. thats a fact. playing this game when you cant explode ...if you enjoy it....youre a bum....play at the Y

but again...good players get fat when theyre old. they know

I played 4 times a week full court thru my mid fifties, when finally my hips were destroyed and when I had broken every finger on my hand multiple times. I have two artificial hips and plates and screws in my hands.

My friends and I played against guys less than half my age, many of whom had recently played high school ball and were obviously more athletic than any of us. We beat them regularly.

The point is that my friends and I loved every minute of playing ball,despite not having any athleticism. In fact, it could be argued we never did have any athleticism. But we could pass and shoot and enjoyed the game until we literally couldn't survive on the court.

I love the game.

yeah man rec leagues are the exact same as the NBA

[BigO]

Spoiler:

yeah..no. and i love khris.

his time is past tho man good lord.. the last thing this team needs is a gimpy, slow, occasionally effective dribble post to face up scorer who feels good every third week when hes "healthy"

does he know how to play...high iq... sweet stroke? goddam right. me too at age 53. the young bouncy athletic types with little upside i used to destroy? yeah once i realized i had no advantage i quit playing....permanently.

anybody who enjoys this game once theyre athleticism is gone wasnt any good to begin with. thats a fact. playing this game when you cant explode ...if you enjoy it....youre a bum....play at the Y

but again...good players get fat when theyre old. they know

I played 4 times a week full court thru my mid fifties, when finally my hips were destroyed and when I had broken every finger on my hand multiple times. I have two artificial hips and plates and screws in my hands.

My friends and I played against guys less than half my age, many of whom had recently played high school ball and were obviously more athletic than any of us. We beat them regularly.

The point is that my friends and I loved every minute of playing ball,despite not having any athleticism. In fact, it could be argued we never did have any athleticism. But we could pass and shoot and enjoyed the game until we literally couldn't survive on the court.

I love the game.

yeah man rec leagues are the exact same as the NBA

WTF. Who was comparing rec ball with the NBA? The poster said he lost his athleticism and thus the game was no more fun. I contrasted that to my experience where I still had fun.

As you pointed out previously, Horst has made a point to get more athletic and it has come at a price of sacrificing basketball skills. That is never a good thing. He bought into the narrative that some have on here that the problem with the Bucks was lack of athleticism rather than quality basketball skills.

The Bucks aren't athletic, but that is far from their problem. They got more athletic with Kuzma and it hurt the team. This seems pretty obvious. And if you're looking for someone who is highly skilled AND athletic, well now you are talking about a star or superstar.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Give me one Khris Middleton over the fast and athletic players any day. It's basketball on a defined and limited court. Not a track meet.

yeah..no. and i love khris.

his time is past tho man good lord.. the last thing this team needs is a gimpy, slow, occasionally effective dribble post to face up scorer who feels good every third week when hes "healthy"

does he know how to play...high iq... sweet stroke? goddam right. me too at age 53. the young bouncy athletic types with little upside i used to destroy? yeah once i realized i had no advantage i quit playing....permanently.

anybody who enjoys this game once theyre athleticism is gone wasnt any good to begin with. thats a fact. playing this game when you cant explode ...if you enjoy it....youre a bum....play at the Y

but again...good players get fat when theyre old. they know

I played 4 times a week full court thru my mid fifties, when finally my hips were destroyed and when I had broken every finger on my hand multiple times. I have two artificial hips and plates and screws in my hands.

My friends and I played against guys less than half my age, many of whom had recently played high school ball and were obviously more athletic than any of us. We beat them regularly.

The point is that my friends and I loved every minute of playing ball,despite not having any athleticism. In fact, it could be argued we never did have any athleticism. But we could pass and shoot and enjoyed the game until we literally couldn't survive on the court.

I love the game.

i won multiple college dunk contests, scored 52 in an NAIA college game and was all american at that level, played at 5 star honesdales mid summer top 300 invite camp, hung with grant hill, jamal mashburn, and pretty much any guy that made the league in the late 80s and early 90s. best game i ever had i went toe to toe with rusty larue in high point nc pro am the summer he won a title with MJ...dropped 60 on him and my team beat his team there. hit like 15 3's and the last 5 were from closer to half court than the line. thats literally not a lie. if you dont know who he is google him. id give anything to have that moment in time back.

but by my late 30's pretty much sucked. couldnt drop step dunk anymore out of the car and didnt play enough to get it back. gave it up. to me i sucked. had no interest in the game you would have played that you described enjoying. i dont enjoy watching HS girls play either. I can appreciate it but it doesnt energize me. id rather golf. basketball is a young mans game if your a man. being the best woman in the world at 40 didnt seem like a priority. it made me sad.

khirs being done makes me sad too. but hes done. done done

[JonHeist]

Spoiler:

I played 4 times a week full court thru my mid fifties, when finally my hips were destroyed and when I had broken every finger on my hand multiple times. I have two artificial hips and plates and screws in my hands.

My friends and I played against guys less than half my age, many of whom had recently played high school ball and were obviously more athletic than any of us. We beat them regularly.

The point is that my friends and I loved every minute of playing ball,despite not having any athleticism. In fact, it could be argued we never did have any athleticism. But we could pass and shoot and enjoyed the game until we literally couldn't survive on the court.

I love the game.

yeah man rec leagues are the exact same as the NBA

WTF. Who was comparing rec ball with the NBA? The poster said he lost his athleticism and thus the game was no more fun. I contrasted that to my experience where I still had fun.

As you pointed out previously, Horst has made a point to get more athletic and it has come at a price of sacrificing basketball skills. That is never a good thing. He bought into the narrative that some have on here that the problem with the Bucks was lack of athleticism rather than quality basketball skills.

The Bucks aren't athletic, but that is far from their problem. They got more athletic with Kuzma and it hurt the team. This seems pretty obvious. And if you're looking for someone who is highly skilled AND athletic, well now you are talking about a star or superstar.

sorry man, that was my bad for not reading all of GoS's post

I do agree with what he said more than with what you said, but I was out of line with the eyeroll emoji

[wco81]

On the whether Giannis requested a trade front:

Truth is, if Giannis did request a trade, the Bucks would likely keep it totally quiet so that all parties wouldn't have to deal with the public noise. Bucks target their preferred packages and negotiate quietly, telling the teams that they'll blow it up if anything is leaked.

Gery reported that the Bucks invited the top 8 players in the draft to Milwaukee to scout them. We don't even have a first round pick as of now. Perhaps that was due diligence, but it could also be a sign that they are indeed shopping him.

There will probably be more discussion of Giannis' status and the whole offseason intrigue after the Finals.

Then we have the draft and free agency, various offseason trade talk will ramp up in July.

Wiretap article says the Bucks hope the state of the Eastern Conference, with Tatum likely out all next season, as well as Doc Rivers, would convince him to stay in Milwaukee.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280532/Bucks-Hope-Weakened-Eastern-Conference-Doc-Rivers-Helps-Convince-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-To-Stay

[Milbucks96]

It sounds like the bucks don’t want to spend any more money after making another mistake and hopes Giannis will overlook it and stay anyway.

[pifhluk23]

If our pitch was really just Doc is staying and Tatum is injured then we are the most incompetent team in the league and he should leave. They better have had a list of 10+ players they were going to target this off season and at least an idea of a plan for next year.

[yannisk]

It sounds like the bucks don’t want to spend any more money after making another mistake and hopes Giannis will overlook it and stay anyway.

exactly, Bucks have decided next year is a lost year and keep Rivers to avoid spending more money for a new coach.The spin is that they keep Rivers in order to make Giannis happy.

[machu46]

If our pitch was really just Doc is staying and Tatum is injured then we are the most incompetent team in the league and he should leave. They better have had a list of 10+ players they were going to target this off season and at least an idea of a plan for next year.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption those are not the only two things we would have gone into the meeting with.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

[ReasonablySober]

If our pitch was really just Doc is staying and Tatum is injured then we are the most incompetent team in the league and he should leave. They better have had a list of 10+ players they were going to target this off season and at least an idea of a plan for next year.

I think it's a pretty safe assumption those are not the only two things we would have gone into the meeting with.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro using Tapatalk

The only money the Bucks have to spend are the same exceptions that most teams will have available. They're not a contender, and they play in the least desirable market in the league. They also don't have any trade assets to acquire good pieces. Giannis and his agents know this, so what good is a list of targets? What possible "plan" could Horsty present that isn't Doc and a weak East?

Giannis knows the deal if he stays. He'll be the PG again, he'll put up monster numbers, and they'll be fighting for a play-in spot. There's no plan beyond that.