Moving Flagg, DAL & SAS

[pad300]

#1 2025 (Flagg)
for
#2 2025 (presumably Harper), Castle

Ok, this is really a bit of a heat check on if Flagg is considered a generational prospect (ie a Luka level guy, theoretically top 20 all time career), or just a legitimate #1 overall (a Tatum level career).

The fit is better for both SAS (has Fox as lead guard, weaker at the 3/4) and DAL (needs guards; Kyrie is probably done as a lead guard at a championship level, also AD wants to play 4 not 5). But is this two dimes for a quarter (good for SAS), or two nickels for a dime (good for DAL, because they need to win w/AD)?

For the record, I'd do it for SAS, but not for DAL.

[Mavrelous]

This isn't remotely close to move from #2 to #1...

[TGW]

Castle, in the grand scheme of things, isn’t very good. He’s not worth the downgrade to #2.

[SkyHook]

#1 2025 (Flagg)
for
#2 2025 (presumably Harper), Castle

Ok, this is really a bit of a heat check on if Flagg is considered a generational prospect (ie a Luka level guy, theoretically top 20 all time career), or just a legitimate #1 overall (a Tatum level career).

The fit is better for both SAS (has Fox as lead guard, weaker at the 3/4) and DAL (needs guards; Kyrie is probably done as a lead guard at a championship level, also AD wants to play 4 not 5). But is this two dimes for a quarter (good for SAS), or two nickels for a dime (good for DAL, because they need to win w/AD)?

For the record, I'd do it for SAS, but not for DAL.

The gap between 1 and 2 in this draft is massive. Carter-Williams Castle doesn't come close to bridging that chasm.

[wemby]

The gap between 1 and 2 in this draft is massive. Carter-Williams Castle doesn't come close to bridging that chasm.

Castle was a better scorer, shooter, playmaker and defender than Carter Williams was at any point in his career. This feels like sour grapes.

[SkyHook]

The gap between 1 and 2 in this draft is massive. Carter-Williams Castle doesn't come close to bridging that chasm.

Castle was a better scorer, shooter, playmaker and defender than Carter Williams was at any point in his career. This feels like sour grapes.

No sour grapes. Just an outside assessment from a fan of neither team (though with much more respect for the Spurs than the Sixers). I see MCW as his closest rookie season comparable, with Castle as a slightly worse version. You see it differently, that's fine.

[williambh3]

Fit issues more for Spurs than Mavs. Flagg has 3-4 versatility and AD 4-5, so I dont really see an issue at all for Mavs. They do lack a lead guard, but lots of options there.

I think some teams will have Harper much closer to Flagg than we think, so Mavs willingness comes down to that more than anything. Also think difference will be made up via draft comp vs. Castle because his development is still a very open question where the Spurs have the most insight.

MCW never came close to the efficiency or usage that Castle had down the stretch. He also was older and never developed at all, which is unusual…

[Chinook]

I see the question more as this: If Dallas decided they like Harper more than Flagg, what would the minimum they'd let the Spurs pay to not just take Harper at 1? Right, because if Dallas believes in Flagg, there really isn't a reasonable trade one could make to bridge the gap. Harrison already has Davis now. There's no cheat code to force the Maverick's hands.

So IF Dallas decided Harper was their guy, could Harrison and Wright come to a deal that could make both sides happy? I imagine the Spurs will get their chance to work out Flagg as well (since I think all teams in the top-five get a chance if they want it), so if Dallas for some reason saw something in Flagg that would make them hesitate to take him, SA might as well.

This feels like an easy decision for both FO's -- just take the player you were lucky enough to have the opportunity to draft and call it a day.

[One_and_Done]

I am not convinced there is much difference between Flagg and Harper. Harper could easily end up the better player. Why should the Spurs pay much of anything to move up?

[One_and_Done]

The gap between 1 and 2 in this draft is massive. Carter-Williams Castle doesn't come close to bridging that chasm.

Castle was a better scorer, shooter, playmaker and defender than Carter Williams was at any point in his career. This feels like sour grapes.

No sour grapes. Just an outside assessment from a fan of neither team (though with much more respect for the Spurs than the Sixers). I see MCW as his closest rookie season comparable, with Castle as a slightly worse version. You see it differently, that's fine.

Castle may not pan out, but comparing him to MCW seems ridiculous. Castle is bigger, stronger, more athletic, and shows more promise as a defender, scorer, etc. Even his 3pt shooting looks more hopeful than MCW. If his 3pt shot doesn't come around it's a problem, but he can still find a role as a wing like Iggy. MCW was too small, thin and unathletic to do that.

[DiegoChara]

I am not convinced there is much difference between Flagg and Harper. Harper could easily end up the better player. Why should the Spurs pay much of anything to move up?

I mean, sure. If you’re of the ridiculous opinion that Harper will be just as good (or better) than Flagg, you definitely wouldn’t pay anything to move up.

And just to be clear, people can believe anything they like. When I say it’s ridiculous, I just mean that there are little to no facts to support the idea that Harper will be better.

[One_and_Done]

I am not convinced there is much difference between Flagg and Harper. Harper could easily end up the better player. Why should the Spurs pay much of anything to move up?

I mean, sure. If you’re of the ridiculous opinion that Harper will be just as good (or better) than Flagg, you definitely wouldn’t pay anything to move up.

And just to be clear, people can believe anything they like. When I say it’s ridiculous, I just mean that there are little to no facts to support the idea that Harper will be better.

I haven't gone into the video enough to be sure which of Flagg/Harper is better, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Harper ends up better. This isn't Wemby vs Scoot/Miller here.

Who is Flagg's comp? I see people throw out names like Tatum, etc, but even if Flagg becomes Tatum, and Harper 'only' becomes a Harden/Cade/Brunson type, I'm not sure a worse Tatum is better than those guys. Or rather, if I had a choice to build around Tatum or Harden, would I take Tatum? I dunno about that.

[DiegoChara]

I am not convinced there is much difference between Flagg and Harper. Harper could easily end up the better player. Why should the Spurs pay much of anything to move up?

I mean, sure. If you’re of the ridiculous opinion that Harper will be just as good (or better) than Flagg, you definitely wouldn’t pay anything to move up.

And just to be clear, people can believe anything they like. When I say it’s ridiculous, I just mean that there are little to no facts to support the idea that Harper will be better.

I haven't gone into the video enough to be sure which of Flagg/Harper is better, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Harper ends up better. This isn't Wemby vs Scoot/Miller here.

Who is Flagg's comp? I see people throw out names like Tatum, etc, but even if Flagg becomes Tatum, and Harper 'only' becomes a Harden/Cade/Brunson type, I'm not sure a worse Tatum is better than those guys. Or rather, if I had a choice to build around Tatum or Harden, would I take Tatum? I dunno about that.

It is a pretty big gap.
You’re vastly underrating Flagg and/or overrating Harper.

[mademan]

I am not convinced there is much difference between Flagg and Harper. Harper could easily end up the better player. Why should the Spurs pay much of anything to move up?

I mean, sure. If you’re of the ridiculous opinion that Harper will be just as good (or better) than Flagg, you definitely wouldn’t pay anything to move up.

And just to be clear, people can believe anything they like. When I say it’s ridiculous, I just mean that there are little to no facts to support the idea that Harper will be better.

I haven't gone into the video enough to be sure which of Flagg/Harper is better, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Harper ends up better. This isn't Wemby vs Scoot/Miller here.

Who is Flagg's comp? I see people throw out names like Tatum, etc, but even if Flagg becomes Tatum, and Harper 'only' becomes a Harden/Cade/Brunson type, I'm not sure a worse Tatum is better than those guys. Or rather, if I had a choice to build around Tatum or Harden, would I take Tatum? I dunno about that.

Anyone can end up better than anyone else, even Melo couldve ended up better than Lebron at the time of the draft, so sure, Harper could be better. As prospects though, Flagg is on a completely different tier.

To the trade, the amount of assets that SAS would have to put up to move from 2 to 1 is almost certainly not worth it, because Dallas would and should ask for anything not nailed down. And they might still say no

[One_and_Done]

I mean, sure. If you’re of the ridiculous opinion that Harper will be just as good (or better) than Flagg, you definitely wouldn’t pay anything to move up.

And just to be clear, people can believe anything they like. When I say it’s ridiculous, I just mean that there are little to no facts to support the idea that Harper will be better.

I haven't gone into the video enough to be sure which of Flagg/Harper is better, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Harper ends up better. This isn't Wemby vs Scoot/Miller here.

Who is Flagg's comp? I see people throw out names like Tatum, etc, but even if Flagg becomes Tatum, and Harper 'only' becomes a Harden/Cade/Brunson type, I'm not sure a worse Tatum is better than those guys. Or rather, if I had a choice to build around Tatum or Harden, would I take Tatum? I dunno about that.

Anyone can end up better than anyone else, even Melo couldve ended up better than Lebron at the time of the draft, so sure, Harper could be better. As prospects though, Flagg is on a completely different tier.

To the trade, the amount of assets that SAS would have to put up to move from 2 to 1 is almost certainly not worth it, because Dallas would and should ask for anything not nailed down. And they might still say no

Sounds like Dallas would be insane in that case.

[mademan]

I haven't gone into the video enough to be sure which of Flagg/Harper is better, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Harper ends up better. This isn't Wemby vs Scoot/Miller here.

Who is Flagg's comp? I see people throw out names like Tatum, etc, but even if Flagg becomes Tatum, and Harper 'only' becomes a Harden/Cade/Brunson type, I'm not sure a worse Tatum is better than those guys. Or rather, if I had a choice to build around Tatum or Harden, would I take Tatum? I dunno about that.

Anyone can end up better than anyone else, even Melo couldve ended up better than Lebron at the time of the draft, so sure, Harper could be better. As prospects though, Flagg is on a completely different tier.

To the trade, the amount of assets that SAS would have to put up to move from 2 to 1 is almost certainly not worth it, because Dallas would and should ask for anything not nailed down. And they might still say no

Sounds like Dallas would be insane in that case.

There's an almost 0% chance that Flagg is traded. Like i said, only way they consider it is a situation that SAS wouldnt (like 2/Castle/14 and multiple more 1sts). Harper is far closer to the next tier of prospects with edgecomb and the others than he is Flagg

[Texas Chuck]

If I'm a Spurs fan I'm gonna be like One and Done and believe in magic tiers and say I'd pay almost nothing. As a Mavs fan I want to say the difference is the entire world.

But I think Chinook has it right. Either Dallas loves Flagg and there isn't a realistic price, or Dallas somehow prefers Harper(or potentially someone else I guess) and then tries to extract everything they can--again assuming the Spurs want Flagg.

Now going by reporting on the draft, the perceived value gap is pretty big. Definitely bigger than just a guy like Castle.

And also going by reporting, Dallas isn't looking to trade out.

[One_and_Done]

There's nothing in the reporting to suggest the Spurs are trying to trade up either.

[Texas Chuck]

There's nothing in the reporting to suggest the Spurs are trying to trade up either.

You can see how that's far less relevant though right?

I know you are only interested in the Spurs side of things, but the Spurs know Dallas isn't selling so what would be the point of leaking their interest?

But it would be pretty surprising if Dallas called them if they went nah Harper might be even better so pound sand Dallas.

[Chinook]

If anything, the Spurs leaking that they want to trade up and aren't happy with Harper can hurt their position with both Harper and their negotiating position with the rest of the league. No matter what, the Spurs would do well to project that they think they are getting another first-overall pick in Harper and try to frame this as a Durant/Oden situation rather than a Scott/Wemby situation. That differs from Dallas, who if they want to trade down at all probably need to signal that to teams will even try to make offers.