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2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#201 » by Indeed » Sun May 25, 2025 4:34 am

JCP11 wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:
JCP11 wrote:Who cares what Givony has to say? He's only one guy, the rest of experts have him ways higher than that. Cowards measurables, shot and combine performance are worth way more than the 30th spot. He's a late riser like Coulibaly and Jalen Williams was. No matter what Givony says ain't no way he's getting drafted 30th.

Maybe he'll continue ascending - there's still lots of time before the draft - but the reason I trust Givony over other draft gurus is because he just reports what he hears from NBA front offices, so his rankings/mock are more like the latest draft intel buzzing around the league. Other guys tend to bake in their own analysis.

If Coward really is a threat to be taken in the top 10, we'll probably see that reflected in Givony's mocks as we get closer to the draft, but as it stands he's nowhere near that even with post combine hype.

Don't get fooled by those insiders that get infos from front offices during draft season, this period we're in isn't called "Lying season" for nothing. If there's a guy teams like they will use insiders to muddy the field. Sometimes they get the truth sometimes not, you can't trust what only one person says. Mel Kiper for the NFL draft is the exact same, he gets used all the time and he knows it but it's good for TV.

Coward is 6'6 215, 7'2 wingspan, great shooter, strong as hell, good athlete (39 inch vert), hard worker, smart...you can't possibly believe he's really 30th in most teams boards. Just watch the tape if you don't think it's true, the proof is there. He fell through the cracks coming from Dlll and getting injured last season.


At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#202 » by earthtone » Sun May 25, 2025 4:59 am

M3tro wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
JCP11 wrote:The more i watch him the more I find it hard to not want him at #9. He has everything you want physically and mentally. The shot is legit and he's a late bloomers that had to earn his way. That's what Masai usually likes right there.


Why is everything about defense though. We neeed scoringgggggg
Look at the pacers. Part of what makes them so good is they’re balanced offensively. They don’t need the same guys to carry them every night.


That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#203 » by CazOnReal » Sun May 25, 2025 5:10 am

It's less scoring we need and more someone who can pressure the rim
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#204 » by JCP11 » Sun May 25, 2025 5:42 am

Indeed wrote:
JCP11 wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Maybe he'll continue ascending - there's still lots of time before the draft - but the reason I trust Givony over other draft gurus is because he just reports what he hears from NBA front offices, so his rankings/mock are more like the latest draft intel buzzing around the league. Other guys tend to bake in their own analysis.

If Coward really is a threat to be taken in the top 10, we'll probably see that reflected in Givony's mocks as we get closer to the draft, but as it stands he's nowhere near that even with post combine hype.

Don't get fooled by those insiders that get infos from front offices during draft season, this period we're in isn't called "Lying season" for nothing. If there's a guy teams like they will use insiders to muddy the field. Sometimes they get the truth sometimes not, you can't trust what only one person says. Mel Kiper for the NFL draft is the exact same, he gets used all the time and he knows it but it's good for TV.

Coward is 6'6 215, 7'2 wingspan, great shooter, strong as hell, good athlete (39 inch vert), hard worker, smart...you can't possibly believe he's really 30th in most teams boards. Just watch the tape if you don't think it's true, the proof is there. He fell through the cracks coming from Dlll and getting injured last season.


At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.
I see what you're saying and it's fair but Coward hasn't had the usual path, I think there's a lot of room for growth still there. With a shot and the strength that he has I don't see how he couldn't create for himself in the NBA. He already had one of the best mid range game in college basketball, shots 40% from 3 and has a high % at the rim, all recipe for a scorer in the NBA. He needs to tighten that handle and then I can see him score a ton.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#205 » by Clutch0z24 » Sun May 25, 2025 5:43 am

earthtone wrote:
M3tro wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
Why is everything about defense though. We neeed scoringgggggg
Look at the pacers. Part of what makes them so good is they’re balanced offensively. They don’t need the same guys to carry them every night.


That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#206 » by Mark_83 » Sun May 25, 2025 6:22 am

bballsparkin wrote:
Mark_83 wrote:The Spurs don't need more picks. They have zero reason to move off pick 2 unless they get an established NBA player back imo.


Curious what is your opinion on Harper? I know you follow the draft more than me. My limited watching has me thinking I'd trade up for him. But not that much. Do you think he's a foundational piece for a team like Spurs at a level more than current day Fox?

I honestly have not thought much about him, as I never believed the NBA would actually put us into a position to take him. Of the top guys I thought VJ and pick #4 would likely be the best we could hope for so I mostly watched him.

I like Harper enough based on my limited views. I see him the mold of a Cade Cunningham but with worse shooting. The shooting will be the swing skill for him to reach that level, but he's got a high enough floor with his defense, feel and playmaking at his size. I think Philly should be trying to move up to take him if they can.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#207 » by RoteSchroder » Sun May 25, 2025 6:38 am

WuTang_OG wrote:
DG88 wrote:Interesting listening to the end of Samson Folk's Carter Bryant video/podcast. Apparently the Raptors really like Fears. If he's there they would take him.

Personally I'd be surprised if Fears even made it to us at 9.

how would these guys know? generally asking?
the closest they gave us something was to tell us they knew we worked out Dick and Bufkin twice


Considering there are rumours of Nets wanting to move up for Fears, I wonder if the media personnel are just being paid to increase his value.

Raptors leaking who they like in the draft would be highly unusual…unless it’s a smokescreen to allow someone they want to drop.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#208 » by Indeed » Sun May 25, 2025 8:36 am

JCP11 wrote:
Indeed wrote:
JCP11 wrote:Don't get fooled by those insiders that get infos from front offices during draft season, this period we're in isn't called "Lying season" for nothing. If there's a guy teams like they will use insiders to muddy the field. Sometimes they get the truth sometimes not, you can't trust what only one person says. Mel Kiper for the NFL draft is the exact same, he gets used all the time and he knows it but it's good for TV.

Coward is 6'6 215, 7'2 wingspan, great shooter, strong as hell, good athlete (39 inch vert), hard worker, smart...you can't possibly believe he's really 30th in most teams boards. Just watch the tape if you don't think it's true, the proof is there. He fell through the cracks coming from Dlll and getting injured last season.


At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.
I see what you're saying and it's fair but Coward hasn't had the usual path, I think there's a lot of room for growth still there. With a shot and the strength that he has I don't see how he couldn't create for himself in the NBA. He already had one of the best mid range game in college basketball, shots 40% from 3 and has a high % at the rim, all recipe for a scorer in the NBA. He needs to tighten that handle and then I can see him score a ton.


I didn't watch his full game, but he has many postup against guards (with his small forward and developed body), which I don't see those high at rim attempts transition to the NBA, unless we really play him at SG (meaning we got another scoring SF in the long term).
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#209 » by Indeed » Sun May 25, 2025 8:43 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
earthtone wrote:
M3tro wrote:
That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...


Kawhi was projected to be more a 3&D, so I think it depends.
But we definitely missed Siakam, where our Barnes (bottom 20 efficiency in the league who so called 20PPG), Poeltl (hardly able to create), Quickley and Dick can really create and get you points (particularly in playoffs).
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#210 » by Clutch0z24 » Sun May 25, 2025 9:12 am

Indeed wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
earthtone wrote:We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...


Kawhi was projected to be more a 3&D, so I think it depends.
But we definitely missed Siakam, where our Barnes (bottom 20 efficiency in the league who so called 20PPG), Poeltl (hardly able to create), Quickley and Dick can really create and get you points (particularly in playoffs).




;t

Kawhi wasn't really just a 3&D guy he had a mid range jumper and a solid ability to create his own shot + A post up fade or attack game....Kinda like Coward in a way.....I don't see Bryant/Noa/Fleming at this kinda level....

Kawhi should have went higher in the draft but if my memory is correct people questioned his athletic ability since he wasn't the best leaper in college and looked a little slow footed....And his jumpshot did not look the smoothest....But he looked like he had the ability to be a 3 level scorer in college And had a little bit of a dribble package...

At 9th i don't see a "Big wing Defender" in this class having that trait....Noa looks more like a slasher without much of an offnsive package, Bryant to me looks like a Catch & Shoot Corner guy without a Middy or get to the basket skills, Fleming who i like out of all the 3&D guys looks like he can't really self create as well...

Think at 9th the defenders are all pretty raw on the offensive side of things but i like Fleming the most if i had to choose one...

Think at 9 if a guy who can self create and looks to have 3 level scoring upside + Defend i think its worth it more to gamble on that...
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#211 » by nivisi9 » Sun May 25, 2025 9:37 am

are we sure there is a ton that seperates Dylan Harper from RJ Barrett?

I actually see a ton of similarities across the board with Harper having the better handle
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#212 » by Got Nuffin » Sun May 25, 2025 9:42 am

Indeed wrote:
JCP11 wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:Maybe he'll continue ascending - there's still lots of time before the draft - but the reason I trust Givony over other draft gurus is because he just reports what he hears from NBA front offices, so his rankings/mock are more like the latest draft intel buzzing around the league. Other guys tend to bake in their own analysis.

If Coward really is a threat to be taken in the top 10, we'll probably see that reflected in Givony's mocks as we get closer to the draft, but as it stands he's nowhere near that even with post combine hype.

Don't get fooled by those insiders that get infos from front offices during draft season, this period we're in isn't called "Lying season" for nothing. If there's a guy teams like they will use insiders to muddy the field. Sometimes they get the truth sometimes not, you can't trust what only one person says. Mel Kiper for the NFL draft is the exact same, he gets used all the time and he knows it but it's good for TV.

Coward is 6'6 215, 7'2 wingspan, great shooter, strong as hell, good athlete (39 inch vert), hard worker, smart...you can't possibly believe he's really 30th in most teams boards. Just watch the tape if you don't think it's true, the proof is there. He fell through the cracks coming from Dlll and getting injured last season.


At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.



Agree with this. The fact that he is going to be 22 and handles the ball like a power forward gives me a lot of pause at #9. Are we drafting Trevor Ariza? Even Anunoby had better handle at that age and we all know he can’t create much for himself.

I am higher on Essengue (sp?) as this type of high end role player. He is legitimately one of the youngest in this class and already producing at a high level. Can’t shoot? He has a much better chance of improving that than Coward with his piss poor handles at their respective ages.

Not saying Coward wouldn’t be a fantastic addition to any team right away, but I feel like we should be going for upside here rather than just drafting Ingram’s long term back up.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#213 » by Boogie! » Sun May 25, 2025 10:01 am

Clutch0z24 wrote:
earthtone wrote:
M3tro wrote:
That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...


Also why is gradey dick still being mentioned as a scorer? He’s not who everyone thinks he is, and he’s inefficient at that.
mdenny wrote:In anycase....Masai is probably gonna make Fred the first active player/head coach in franchise history now that Nurse is out of the way. That's been the plan all along.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#214 » by RoteSchroder » Sun May 25, 2025 11:43 am

Got Nuffin wrote:
Indeed wrote:
JCP11 wrote:Don't get fooled by those insiders that get infos from front offices during draft season, this period we're in isn't called "Lying season" for nothing. If there's a guy teams like they will use insiders to muddy the field. Sometimes they get the truth sometimes not, you can't trust what only one person says. Mel Kiper for the NFL draft is the exact same, he gets used all the time and he knows it but it's good for TV.

Coward is 6'6 215, 7'2 wingspan, great shooter, strong as hell, good athlete (39 inch vert), hard worker, smart...you can't possibly believe he's really 30th in most teams boards. Just watch the tape if you don't think it's true, the proof is there. He fell through the cracks coming from Dlll and getting injured last season.


At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.



Agree with this. The fact that he is going to be 22 and handles the ball like a power forward gives me a lot of pause at #9. Are we drafting Trevor Ariza? Even Anunoby had better handle at that age and we all know he can’t create much for himself.

I am higher on Essengue (sp?) as this type of high end role player. He is legitimately one of the youngest in this class and already producing at a high level. Can’t shoot? He has a much better chance of improving that than Coward with his piss poor handles at their respective ages.

Not saying Coward wouldn’t be a fantastic addition to any team right away, but I feel like we should be going for upside here rather than just drafting Ingram’s long term back up.


I think Coward's projection is definitely better than Ariza (at least offensively). Given his efficiency, he projects to be a 50/40/90 threat. The main question is on what volume. If he's only capable of doing that at 12-15 PPG, it's not as valuable as doing it on 20 PPG, and it's justifiable to take others over him. If you think he can reach 20 PPG on that efficiency and have him be a plus defender, you take that and live with the consequences of a raw project exceeding him.

For Essengue, it seems like ppl are pretty split on him based on all the podcasts/youtubers/scouts/media personnel. Both sides see that he's producing on-court, but one side believes there's too many holes and question marks to justify risking him at 9 whereas the other side is excited to see what he can become if he adds on skills on top of his existing production. I'm in the latter, but I can see how it's a big risk considering banking on development doesn't work out a lot of the time.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#215 » by TNRaps4life » Sun May 25, 2025 12:10 pm

RoteSchroder wrote:
Got Nuffin wrote:
Indeed wrote:
At his age, he needs more than measurement.
At #9, he needs to able to create for himself, which I don't find that. He is a low risk high-end 3&D to me. If people see Carter Bryant being a high-end 3&D at 20, maybe he could be drafted a slot or two above him.



Agree with this. The fact that he is going to be 22 and handles the ball like a power forward gives me a lot of pause at #9. Are we drafting Trevor Ariza? Even Anunoby had better handle at that age and we all know he can’t create much for himself.

I am higher on Essengue (sp?) as this type of high end role player. He is legitimately one of the youngest in this class and already producing at a high level. Can’t shoot? He has a much better chance of improving that than Coward with his piss poor handles at their respective ages.

Not saying Coward wouldn’t be a fantastic addition to any team right away, but I feel like we should be going for upside here rather than just drafting Ingram’s long term back up.


I think Coward's projection is definitely better than Ariza (at least offensively). Given his efficiency, he projects to be a 50/40/90 threat. The main question is on what volume. If he's only capable of doing that at 12-15 PPG, it's not as valuable as doing it on 20 PPG, and it's justifiable to take others over him. If you think he can reach 20 PPG on that efficiency and have him be a plus defender, you take that and live with the consequences of a raw project exceeding him.

For Essengue, it seems like ppl are pretty split on him based on all the podcasts/youtubers/scouts/media personnel. Both sides see that he's producing on-court, but one side believes there's too many holes and question marks to justify risking him at 9 whereas the other side is excited to see what he can become if he adds on skills on top of his existing production. I'm in the latter, but I can see how it's a big risk considering banking on development doesn't work out a lot of the time.


For Noa essengue, existing production is already a good player. Development and you got a steal
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#216 » by bboyskinnylegs » Sun May 25, 2025 12:40 pm

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#217 » by M3tro » Sun May 25, 2025 1:36 pm

earthtone wrote:
M3tro wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
Why is everything about defense though. We neeed scoringgggggg
Look at the pacers. Part of what makes them so good is they’re balanced offensively. They don’t need the same guys to carry them every night.


That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


Scottie and IQ are not who I would consider dynamic scorers. Their averages are higher on a team that accomplished nothing, so I'm expecting they dip when we have a more talented offensive pecking order.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#218 » by Psubs » Sun May 25, 2025 1:46 pm

nivisi9 wrote:are we sure there is a ton that seperates Dylan Harper from RJ Barrett?

I actually see a ton of similarities across the board with Harper having the better handle


That's why I have Tre Johnson at #2.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#219 » by Buff » Sun May 25, 2025 1:53 pm

Clutch0z24 wrote:
earthtone wrote:
M3tro wrote:
That should be our only focus this draft.

Dynamic offensive talent, regardless of position. I'd be tempted to trade up to guarantee myself that player.

We have three 20+ PPG scorers (if you round up Scottie’s 19.9), IQ who averaged 21 per 36, Jak who averaged ~15, and Gradey who averaged 14.

I don’t think we should pass on a dynamic scorer if they’re the BPA, but it’s definitely not the most pressing need imo


With a high end draft pick you go with dynamic kinda scorers as long as they are not horrible on defense.....3&D kinda role players are always available in the later parts of drafts and also easier to add via trade if you need one...

If Masai thinks one of the guys at 9 has dynamic scoring upside i think that should be the more important trait high up in the draft...


I am against this philosophy, at this point in college, pretty much all dynamic scorer suck at defense because they haven't play defense in their life. The unicorns that can do both go top 3-5. So is the dynamic scorer always the best player? History is full of dynamic scorers whose team fell in love with the empty scoring and set them back YEARS trying to make it work.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft Discussion Part 8 

Post#220 » by TNRaps4life » Sun May 25, 2025 1:53 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:



Swinging for him if Malauch not there

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