PF targets

[Kalamazoo317]

To be fair, signing competent vets last off season tripled our win total

[Crymson]

Feel like we just sign a Bobby Portis type of player and call it a day for now

Are you prepared to lose Beasley and probably Schroder in the process?

[MotownMadness]

Feel like we just sign a Bobby Portis type of player and call it a day for now

Are you prepared to lose Beasley and probably Schroder in the process?

No

[BadMofoPimp]

If the Pistons are at $128mil and the Salary Tax threshold is going to be $187mil with the first apron at $195mil, then I don't see why the Pistons cannot sign Portis and resign Schroder and Beasely, easily.

[catari11]

If the Pistons are at $128mil and the Salary Tax threshold is going to be $187mil with the first apron at $195mil, then I don't see why the Pistons cannot sign Portis and resign Schroder and Beasely, easily.

signing Portis would be a smart addition. However, it still would do little to improve Pistons' undersized frontline. Better they throw a bag at Aldama who is really the addition the Pistons' need.

[Crymson]

If the Pistons are at $128mil and the Salary Tax threshold is going to be $187mil with the first apron at $195mil, then I don't see why the Pistons cannot sign Portis and resign Schroder and Beasely, easily.

The salary cap for 2025-2026 is $155 million, and the Pistons will begin the offseason with about $136 million in salary. As for the rest, it gets complicated.

[Crymson]

No

Me neither, and that's very likely what would come of it. At least one of them, and probably both.

[zeebneeb]

If the Pistons are at $128mil and the Salary Tax threshold is going to be $187mil with the first apron at $195mil, then I don't see why the Pistons cannot sign Portis and resign Schroder and Beasely, easily.

signing Portis would be a smart addition. However, it still would do little to improve Pistons' undersized frontline. Better they throw a bag at Aldama who is really the addition the Pistons' need.

I am an Aldama guy, but he does come with risk. How will he perform, not being a bench player, and being a main cog on the team offensively, and defensively? He is a true 7' though, and can block some shots.(225lbs)

If he performs, the Pistons become really damn good, really damn fast. His per36 numbers are excellent 17/9/4 and can do more then just launch 3-pointers.

Cade
Ivey
Ausar
Aldama
Duren

Is a formidable starting 5, if Aldama is a guy who excels with more playing time.

[the_l_train]

This thread is going in circles. Aldama cannot defend. If Duren is our center longterm, we cannot afford to have another a weak defender next to him in the frontcourt.

Aldama is a great 3rd big, mediocre starter.

[Mr Peanut]

This thread is going in circles. Aldama cannot defend. If Duren is our center longterm, we cannot afford to have another a weak defender next to him in the frontcourt.

Aldama is a great 3rd big, mediocre starter.

Aldama's defensive EPM is +0.1 (60th percentile). So not amazing, but "cannot defend" is underselling him when compared to his peers.

[catari11]

This thread is going in circles. Aldama cannot defend. If Duren is our center longterm, we cannot afford to have another a weak defender next to him in the frontcourt.

Aldama is a great 3rd big, mediocre starter.

Aldama's defensive EPM is +0.1 (60th percentile). So not amazing, but "cannot defend" is underselling him when compared to his peers.

Never mind that he's young and is capable of improving his D.

[Skybox]

Wendell Carter is, ideally, more PF than C - but capable starter at both and still quite young. I think his offensive skillset is buried in ORL next to Paolo & Franz...he's excellent, possibly elite for a big man, at switching out and defending on the perimeter. His game is more solid than flash...he rarely meets guys at the rim, but he's a very effective positional defender. Moving him would be a big hole for ORL, but they have a bigger, more pressing need and could probably fall back with Goga, Isaac, or even a big vet like Miles Plumlee at C...WCJ is probably a guy whose versatility is his greatest attribute and least valuable in ORL (who just need a simple brute to defend, collect rebounds, and catch lobs and put backs.

DET can have a new starting PF, who could play very effectively next to Stewat OR Duren OR even at C with Tobias next to him for a quicker lineup. They can also have Rasheer Fleming at #16. Salaries match very nicely (for now)...

ORL sends: WCJ, #16, #46
DET sends: Ivey

[Crymson]

Wendell Carter is, ideally, more PF than C - but capable starter at both and still quite young. I think his offensive skillset is buried in ORL next to Paolo & Franz...he's excellent, possibly elite for a big man, at switching out and defending on the perimeter. His game is more solid than flash...he rarely meets guys at the rim, but he's a very effective positional defender. Moving him would be a big hole for ORL, but they have a bigger, more pressing need and could probably fall back with Goga, Isaac, or even a big vet like Miles Plumlee at C...WCJ is probably a guy whose versatility is his greatest attribute and least valuable in ORL (who just need a simple brute to defend, collect rebounds, and catch lobs and put backs.

DET can have a new starting PF, who could play very effectively next to Stewat OR Duren OR even at C with Tobias next to him for a quicker lineup. They can also have Rasheer Fleming at #16. Salaries match very nicely (for now)...

ORL sends: WCJ, #16, #46
DET sends: Ivey

WCJ does not have the mobility to perform well at power forward, he's nothing special even at center, and bundling him with #16 and #46 would get you nowhere near Ivey even if WCJ hadn't just logged an absolute stinker of a season offensively.

[Crymson]

Sincere apologies…I have been aggressive (in this thread especially) and agree I need to chill lol.

No worries! It happens.

Just a Marcus Sasser stan sticking to my guns that he is a keeper.

I hope you're right about Sasser, of course -- I'm just of the opinion that substantial improvement on his part in that area is unlikely at this point.

This thread is going in circles. Aldama cannot defend. If Duren is our center longterm, we cannot afford to have another a weak defender next to him in the frontcourt.

Aldama is a great 3rd big, mediocre starter.

I can't speak to the exact quality of his defense, but he definitely isn't outright bad. Is he overall a suitable starter for a good team? Almost certainly not.

As for Duren, he won't be a starting center here or anywhere else (unless it's on a tanker) if his defense doesn't improve a great deal. He was literally the only traditional big this season with a major rotation role who wasn't at the very least a solid defender, and the vast majority of that category provided genuinely good defensive value. A traditional big who doesn't provide defensive value pretty much cannot provide positive value overall.

[Crymson]

Disagree on Crymson’s assessment of Sasser’s handle — it’s very good, maybe even excellent.

When I'm referring to his handle, I mean his ability to compensate for his poor first step. There are certainly unathletic guards who manage to reliably achieve penetration through handle and smarts. Sasser cannot; he's easily neutralized with one-on-one coverage. All the crossovers and behind-the-backs in the world are of limited value if they don't get you where you need to go.

Doesn’t matter much, though. Because he’s short without an outlier vertical, he can’t drive and finish and just doesn’t even try as a result. He uses his handle to create jumpers for himself, which he does rather easily. Breaking down his man is not a problem at all.

"Breaking down defenses" means getting past one's man and into the interior such that help needs to come and the defense gets disrupted. Simply getting somewhat into the interior and taking a low-percentage pullup jumper doesn't achieve that. Relying on pullup jumpers works only if one is able to consistently hit them at a good percentage, in which case defenses need to ensure that the player isn't given space to shoot and teammates end up open on the perimeter as a result.

We've seen that work for Sasser in some instances in the past when he's gotten very hot; the trouble is that he rarely gets that hot and that the shot profile in question is extremely difficult to make efficient and therefore viable for only the very few players who can consistently convert on it. Sadly for the Pistons, Sasser is not one of those.

He was at Summer League last season to get reps as an on-ball penetrator and fell flat on his face against very easy opposition. He just doesn't have it.

The problem is, teams know he won’t drive, so even beating his man just results in a pull-up or leaner.

The issue is can't, not won't. He doesn't have the means to reliably get anywhere near the rim from on the ball. The rare occasion when he manages to get there is when his combination of poor size and vertical athleticism begin to work against him, as he's got extremely limited means to score through rim protection. I'm not sure if we've ever seen him even bother trying to finish into contact.

The bigger issue is he doesn’t see the floor worth a crap. I’m sure his sight lines are terrible, but he misses open guys on simple swing passes all the time. He’s an even smaller Cam Thomas, without the ultra-tough shot making — he’s a tiny SG. Not something we need as long as we pick up a vet 3rd PG. Sasser is very AAAA in baseball terms. If a team let him, I’m sure he could average 30 ppg in the G-League while ignoring his teammates.

I think his court vision is OK. It's definitely not good, but I've never seen him struggle to find open teammates, and my impression (based on the disparity between how he played last season versus this season) is that JB told him this season to focus on scoring. The trouble is that he's rarely generating open looks for teammates in any case. I agree that at this point, he's an undersized shooting specialist. To make matters worse, he's also an unreliable shooting specialist.

I'm not so sure he'd do great in the G-League, because his on-ball shortcomings would remain an issue there. He's not like, say, Saben Lee, who had excellent burst by G-League standards.

[Skybox]

Wendell Carter is, ideally, more PF than C - but capable starter at both and still quite young. I think his offensive skillset is buried in ORL next to Paolo & Franz...he's excellent, possibly elite for a big man, at switching out and defending on the perimeter. His game is more solid than flash...he rarely meets guys at the rim, but he's a very effective positional defender. Moving him would be a big hole for ORL, but they have a bigger, more pressing need and could probably fall back with Goga, Isaac, or even a big vet like Miles Plumlee at C...WCJ is probably a guy whose versatility is his greatest attribute and least valuable in ORL (who just need a simple brute to defend, collect rebounds, and catch lobs and put backs.

DET can have a new starting PF, who could play very effectively next to Stewat OR Duren OR even at C with Tobias next to him for a quicker lineup. They can also have Rasheer Fleming at #16. Salaries match very nicely (for now)...

ORL sends: WCJ, #16, #46
DET sends: Ivey

WCJ does not have the mobility to perform well at power forward, he's nothing special even at center, and bundling him with #16 and #46 would get you nowhere near Ivey even if WCJ hadn't just logged an absolute stinker of a season offensively.

Like I was saying...he's actually BETTER suited for PF (he's said it too). He manages mobility-wise, just fine, but he's more laterally mobile than upwardly...he's averaged more than 10 rpg in a season and is the Magic player most likely to come down with it in a crowd but I'd personally prefer a 7' that blocks everything and rebounds everything on both ends to anchor Mosely's fierce defense....someone with much less skill or versatility (but more classic C profile), like Gafford or Poeltl, for example, to set picks, bang bodies, catch lobs, and average a LOT of rebounds.

Does he match up well with Tatum - who does? How about Embiid - who does?

[tmorgan]

Disagree on Crymson’s assessment of Sasser’s handle — it’s very good, maybe even excellent.

When I'm referring to his handle, I mean his ability to compensate for his poor first step. There are certainly unathletic guards who manage to reliably achieve penetration through handle and smarts. Sasser cannot; he's easily neutralized with one-on-one coverage. All the crossovers and behind-the-backs in the world are of limited value if they don't get you where you need to go.

Doesn’t matter much, though. Because he’s short without an outlier vertical, he can’t drive and finish and just doesn’t even try as a result. He uses his handle to create jumpers for himself, which he does rather easily. Breaking down his man is not a problem at all.

"Breaking down defenses" means getting past one's man and into the interior such that help needs to come and the defense gets disrupted. Simply getting somewhat into the interior and taking a low-percentage pullup jumper doesn't achieve that. Relying on pullup jumpers works only if one is able to consistently hit them at a good percentage, in which case defenses need to ensure that the player isn't given space to shoot and teammates end up open on the perimeter as a result.

We've seen that work for Sasser in some instances in the past when he's gotten very hot; the trouble is that he rarely gets that hot and that the shot profile in question is extremely difficult to make efficient and therefore viable for only the very few players who can consistently convert on it. Sadly for the Pistons, Sasser is not one of those.

He was at Summer League last season to get reps as an on-ball penetrator and fell flat on his face against very easy opposition. He just doesn't have it.

The problem is, teams know he won’t drive, so even beating his man just results in a pull-up or leaner.

The issue is can't, not won't. He doesn't have the means to reliably get anywhere near the rim from on the ball. The rare occasion when he manages to get there is when his combination of poor size and vertical athleticism begin to work against him, as he's got extremely limited means to score through rim protection. I'm not sure if we've ever seen him even bother trying to finish into contact.

The bigger issue is he doesn’t see the floor worth a crap. I’m sure his sight lines are terrible, but he misses open guys on simple swing passes all the time. He’s an even smaller Cam Thomas, without the ultra-tough shot making — he’s a tiny SG. Not something we need as long as we pick up a vet 3rd PG. Sasser is very AAAA in baseball terms. If a team let him, I’m sure he could average 30 ppg in the G-League while ignoring his teammates.

I think his court vision is OK. It's definitely not good, but I've never seen him struggle to find open teammates, and my impression (based on the disparity between how he played last season versus this season) is that JB told him this season to focus on scoring. The trouble is that he's rarely generating open looks for teammates in any case. I agree that at this point, he's an undersized shooting specialist. To make matters worse, he's also an unreliable shooting specialist.

I'm not so sure he'd do great in the G-League, because his on-ball shortcomings would remain an issue there. He's not like, say, Saben Lee, who had excellent burst by G-League standards.

Honestly, Crymson, you get so lost in lecture mode that you forget or ignore what you’ve just responded to. You make good points, no doubt, but ease up a little.

For example: In the above post you just responded to, you try to make a point of emphasis that “The issue is can’t, not won’t”, when referring to his lack of driving ability. Now look one quote above — I’d just said “He can’t drive and finish and doesn’t even try as a result.” That’s frustrating to have someone lecture you on something you’ve just said. I understand you went about it a slightly different way, directly talking about his lack of burst, which is true. He dribbles around, probing for a jumper. That’s his scouting report.

You also tell me what “breaking down defenses” is in full lecture mode. I know what that is. I also never made a claim that Sasser breaks down defenses, only that he can easily use his handle to break down his own man and get his shot up, which he can. It was in response to your original claim that Sasser has a poor (unsure of your word choice, but that was the gist) handle, which I still disagree with.

We can agree he’s nothing special and nothing the team really needs. We gave him a shot, experimented a little, and it was mostly a failure. I hope he gets a shot to stick in the league somewhere else, but I also hope we use his roster spot for something more useful next year.

[the_l_train]

Aldama was such a non-factor on D that he had his own teammates getting in his face and trying to fight him about it. Legit 7 footer or not, he is soft.

Hearing WCJ name thrown out there is refreshing, just because we have beaten the usual suspects (Aldama/JJJ/Lauri/Portis) to death.

[LaSheed]

Aldama was such a non-factor on D that ye had his own teammates getting in his face and trying to fight him about it. Legit 7 footer or not, he is soft.

Hearing WCJ name thrown out there is refreshing, just because we have beaten the usual suspects (Aldama/JJJ/Lauri/Portis) to death.

I was thinking PJ Washington myself. Guy that can play with anyone in the lineup.

[the_l_train]

Not a starter, but I’d take Chris Boucher for the right price.