2025 Draft Thread - Part 2

[NatP4]

That CMB+Sarr front court could be so dynamic. Perfect fit. Still think CMB turns out to be the 3rd or 4th best player in the class.

Always played next to a floor spacing 5 at South Carolina, never had to take 3s. The shooting upside is there, but his fit as a small ball C/low post defender next to a floor spacing Sarr would be elite.

[tontoz]

Not sold on Wolf. He shot 60% from the foul line and only 33.6% from the college 3 as a junior, on low volume. I am not sure he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA.

He was a turnover machine as well and i have doubts about defense.

[NatP4]

6&40 for 8&26 from Brooklyn

8: CMB
18: Jase Richardson/Nolan Traore
26: Cedric Coward/Hugo Gonzales

Would look to trade up for Richardson if he’s expected to go in the 12-15 range. Mike Conley clone.

If they could somehow get CMB, Richardson, and Traore, dream draft.

[nate33]

Read on Twitter

At this point, he is my favorite target at #18. I'm starting to worry that he won't last that long though. FWIW, the consensus mock draft board has him going 21st.

If Wolf is already gone at #18, that probably increases the odds that Sorber is still on the board, so that's a good consolation prize. I'd be pretty happy with him too.

Like him a lot.

nate, do me a favor, take a good look at Yaxel Lendeborg. Footage but also his per 40 minute numbers: he's an elite prospect to my way of thinking.

Statistically, he compares very well to Wolf. His numbers are a bit better. The big caveat is the strength of schedule. UAB had the 137th most difficult strength of schedule in college basketball. Michigan had the 7th most difficult SOS. There's also the 18-month age difference.

I think the biggest distinction between the two is that Wolf is 15 pounds heavier than Yaxel while still being just as athletic (Wolf posted quicker lane agility and shuttle run scores, and just 1.5 inches less in vertical leap). Wolf looks a bit more capable to be a full time center capable of banging with the true behemoths of this league. Yaxel may be more of a PF/C tweener. He can play center in certain matchups, but might get overwhelmed by guys like Jokic and Mitchell Robinson.

The Wizards already have their PF/C tweener in Sarr. I think that a center who will platoon with Sarr and occasionally share the court with him should be a full sized center. So for the Wizards, I like Wolf more. But Yaxel is definitely intriguing.

[payitforward]

I have to agree -- tho, when you look at Wolf's numbers at Yale (i.e. vs. a weaker schedule), they are essentially no different from his UM numbers.

I see Lendeborg as a Forward prospect, btw, rather than a Center. If I had to put $$ on success, I'd put it on Lendeborg over Wolf. Be interesting to see how it works out (&, as usual, I hope both of them are terrific!).

[nate33]

Not sold on Wolf. He shot 60% from the foul line and only 33.6% from the college 3 as a junior, on low volume. I am not sure he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA.

He was a turnover machine as well and i have doubts about defense.

Fair enough. Wolf is by no means a can't miss prospect. I like him at #18 because I think there's a chance he hones his shot and ends up looking like a guy somewhere between Sabonis and Olynyk. But if he doesn't become a reliable shooter, then he could bust. I definitely wouldn't take him at #6. With a high lotto pick, I need a guy who is fairly certain to be a playoff starter, or a guy with the upside of an All-NBA player. Wolf is neither.

[AFM]

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

I have to agree -- tho, when you look at Wolf's numbers at Yale (i.e. vs. a weaker schedule), they are essentially no different from his UM numbers.

I see Lendeborg as a Forward prospect, btw, rather than a Center. If I had to put $$ on success, I'd put it on Lendeborg over Wolf. Be interesting to see how it works out (&, as usual, I hope both of them are terrific!).

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

[doclinkin]

I have to agree -- tho, when you look at Wolf's numbers at Yale (i.e. vs. a weaker schedule), they are essentially no different from his UM numbers.

I see Lendeborg as a Forward prospect, btw, rather than a Center. If I had to put $$ on success, I'd put it on Lendeborg over Wolf. Be interesting to see how it works out (&, as usual, I hope both of them are terrific!).

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

Exactly . Grew up in Puerto Rico playing baseball was not exposed to basketball much until late, then discovered he had an aptitude for it. His growth has been pretty remarkable, especially the assists aspect that he just added, his understanding of space and timing seems natural for the game. His stat growth progression is the thing that caught my eye early on, not only was he good but he was getting better game by game.

[TheBlackCzar]

I have to agree -- tho, when you look at Wolf's numbers at Yale (i.e. vs. a weaker schedule), they are essentially no different from his UM numbers.

I see Lendeborg as a Forward prospect, btw, rather than a Center. If I had to put $$ on success, I'd put it on Lendeborg over Wolf. Be interesting to see how it works out (&, as usual, I hope both of them are terrific!).

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

Exactly . Grew up in Puerto Rico playing baseball was not exposed to basketball much until late, then discovered he had an aptitude for it. His growth has been pretty remarkable, especially the assists aspect that he just added, his understanding of space and timing seems natural for the game. His stat growth progression is the thing that caught my eye early on, not only was he good but he was getting better game by game.

Fears - scoring point
Lendeborg - defensive forward with offensive skills...
or Queen as I've begun a deep dive on him, and I think he can really improve himself by working on his legs...... His legs look like a fat teens thighs, so I think he definitely can improve his quickness and agility by simply toning up his lower body..... CCJ holla at me.... I know you've been good at picking diamonds in the rough and I'd like to holla at you about Queen......How do you think Queen Compares to Derick Character?

I like those choices....

[closg00]

Not sold on Wolf. He shot 60% from the foul line and only 33.6% from the college 3 as a junior, on low volume. I am not sure he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA.

He was a turnover machine as well and i have doubts about defense.

Fair enough. Wolf is by no means a can't miss prospect. I like him at #18 because I think there's a chance he hones his shot and ends up looking like a guy somewhere between Sabonis and Olynyk. But if he doesn't become a reliable shooter, then he could bust. I definitely wouldn't take him at #6. With a high lotto pick, I need a guy who is fairly certain to be a playoff starter, or a guy with the upside of an All-NBA player. Wolf is neither.

What I like about Wolf is that he was basically a 7 foot point guard for Michigan, hence the TO’s attempting to facilitate, he will be able operate in new ways in an NBA offense, he is going to be able to help some team.

[payitforward]

How do you think Queen Compares to Derrick Caracter?...

Now there's a name I haven't thought of for a decade or more!

Caracter never logged a minute in the NBA as far as I know.... No, wait... he played 200 minutes total in 41 games as a rookie in '10-11. Queen better be a whole lot more of a player than Derrick Caracter!

That said, a little googling tells me Derrick played some years in Puerto Rico & has put time in working with kids -- made himself a good & useful life. Way to go!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

It's easy to be pessimistic around draft time, but this is essentially correct. Most draft picks have obvious flaws. The key is figuring out which ones can overcome their flaws with training and experience and become more well-rounded players.

I'm pretty sure that at least one or two among Fears, Maluach, Queen, Jakucionis, Kneuppel and Bryant will pan out to be a quality starter and maybe even in All-Star. One will probably also be a bust.

Bust? How similar is Derik Queen to Luka Garza?

Is Garza worthy of more playing time? Is he a bust?

I don't understand your point. Who said anything about Luka Garza? For that matter, why are you even picking out Queen? My point is just as PIF summarized it above: there are stars found in the 5-10 range, and their are often busts in that range too. It's hard to predict because most of NBA success depends on how a young player develops his talents in the years following the draft.

I have no idea if Queen, or Fears, or somebody else will do the work to correct their weaknesses and become a star, or if they won't do the work so that their current weaknesses remain weaknesses that will be exploited throughout their career.

I had a fleeting thought. What if Queen is that bust? Next, I thought out of the blue how the other NBA Luka dominated the Big Ten years back. I legit asked the question because Garza is a journeyman in his 5th or 6th NBA season.

Garza on paper has intriguing numbers, but he NEVER plays.

I wondered about Queen.

To match your tone, nate33, it isn't about you. It wasn't about you. I don't usually get chippy but you do. Not infrequently.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Not sold on Wolf. He shot 60% from the foul line and only 33.6% from the college 3 as a junior, on low volume. I am not sure he will be able to shoot 3s in the NBA.

He was a turnover machine as well and i have doubts about defense.

https://mgoblue.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/danny-wolf/25715

LAST SEASON WAS DANNY WOLF'S THIRD YEAR OF NCAA BASKETBALL

We knock Queen for his age and lack of conditioning, but don't factor in that Wolf has had two extra years of NCAA training and D1 competition.

Derik has ALWAYS been elite. He was elite at Montverde. Queen put up as good numbers as all his classmates not named Cooper Flagg.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

Exactly . Grew up in Puerto Rico playing baseball was not exposed to basketball much until late, then discovered he had an aptitude for it. His growth has been pretty remarkable, especially the assists aspect that he just added, his understanding of space and timing seems natural for the game. His stat growth progression is the thing that caught my eye early on, not only was he good but he was getting better game by game.

Fears - scoring point
Lendeborg - defensive forward with offensive skills...
or Queen as I've begun a deep dive on him, and I think he can really improve himself by working on his legs...... His legs look like a fat teens thighs, so I think he definitely can improve his quickness and agility by simply toning up his lower body..... CCJ holla at me.... I know you've been good at picking diamonds in the rough and I'd like to holla at you about Queen......How do you think Queen Compares to Derick Character?

I like those choices....

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

Exactly . Grew up in Puerto Rico playing baseball was not exposed to basketball much until late, then discovered he had an aptitude for it. His growth has been pretty remarkable, especially the assists aspect that he just added, his understanding of space and timing seems natural for the game. His stat growth progression is the thing that caught my eye early on, not only was he good but he was getting better game by game.

Fears - scoring point
Lendeborg - defensive forward with offensive skills...
or Queen as I've begun a deep dive on him, and I think he can really improve himself by working on his legs...... His legs look like a fat teens thighs, so I think he definitely can improve his quickness and agility by simply toning up his lower body..... CCJ holla at me.... I know you've been good at picking diamonds in the rough and I'd like to holla at you about Queen......How do you think Queen Compares to Derick Character?

I like those choices....

Derrick Character is a terrific case study and cautionary tale. This is definitely worth a 5-9 minute look and listen.

https://youtu.be/GlxnwhK7jnA?si=KmzNziYBQcO2gnlw

To compare his game to DQ, here's a short, representative clip.

https://youtu.be/nhFVtuVK-M4?si=CFmGAsIsWIFO8PFz

Larry Holmes once said, "Rocky Marciano couldn't hold my jock strap!" There's little comparison, IMO. Queen is far better.

Derrick Character was a shell of who Derik Queen is. Character was bigger, but Queen uses advanced footwork and quick first steps off the dribble. Queen can be a facilitator. His game is nuanced. Character was a traditional bull dozer PF. He looks shorter than his listed height to me.

The main thing that separates the two is ... character. Derrick C had rough breaks and started out, unfortunately, with conflict with his coaching. Pitino is ass. The NBA screwed Character over out of HS, but the kid developed an entitlement mentality. Then, he got fat. Derik Queen seems like a pleasant and highly coachable kid.

DQ will be a first round pick. If Character had been drafted out of HS, he likely would have had a much better career. Worst case is he would have eaten his way out of the leaguelike Mike Sweetney.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think Fears and Lendeborg are safe bets at 6 and 18. I still like Queen.

[TheBlackCzar]

I think Fears and Lendeborg are safe bets at 6 and 18. I still like Queen.

Hell, I think I'd like all 3..... I think each could cover a base we don't yet have covered....

PG - Fears (penetrator, needs to work on shooting) - I think he'll eventually end up anywhere between our #1 - #4 because also depends on how Bilal and
Alex develop and if we get our true #1 next year or if we need to develop one in house.....
Bub (Very good shooter, needs to work on penetration skills)

SG - Poole (Good shooter decent driving)
AJ - (Continue working on your craft, as you have a nice jumper, have some nice moves to the hole, and need to get in that gym, eat, and keep building on your foundation. Could potentially make missing out on our lotto pick next year worth it if he blows up and takes over the starting position.


SF - Bilal (Needs to work on shooting and driving game but flashes very high potential)
Ky (Improving shooting, and much better driving game than expected, keep working in the gym, keep building on your skills)
Lendeborg (Could provide shooting, athleticism and quick development with our other youngings even though he's older)

PF - Sarr (so many questions on how he'll develop but good baseline established thus far... I'm expecting greatness but needs that gym, lift younging lift, he needs continued work on his shooting, start to look to develop some go to moves when he drives the lane, improve his aggressiveness on both sides of the ball, youngin to big to not be letting them know....

C - Queen - I think he's going to make Alex meaner and I think they will both bring out the best from one another.... Initially I wasn't thinking about Queen in a broader sense... I was thinking to singularly about him, but after really watching his dribble drive game, the fact that he's really not in very good shape and should be able to really improve his athleticism just by building more muscle and slimming down should only enhance this ability... I think it really comes down to how they project his defense.. I think we have the archetype of a team to hide his deficiencies provided he works on himself.... Just don't be a big ass Luka on D.....

Vuk - Gives a nice change of pace from Queen....

[Dat2U]

That CMB+Sarr front court could be so dynamic. Perfect fit. Still think CMB turns out to be the 3rd or 4th best player in the class.

Always played next to a floor spacing 5 at South Carolina, never had to take 3s. The shooting upside is there, but his fit as a small ball C/low post defender next to a floor spacing Sarr would be elite.

Where? Show me. None of the indicators look particularly good. I guess your excited about 70% from the FT line? The form its self looks stiff and needs to be completely reworked. I saw he made a total of 14 jumpers on the year - which includes mid-range looks. This is not "shooting upside". This is slightly better than "starting from scratch".

I think adding non-shooters to a team of poor shooters is how you stunt offensive development of your young core and make it harder for everyone else to score. I just don't view CMB as this game-changing, all-NBA potential defender or a Draymond Green-like point forward capable of running offensive sets, making high level reads and hitting open 3s. Drafting the next Jarred Vanderbilt chasing the ghost of Draymond's upside is just waste of resources and a valuable pick.

[FAH1223]

One thing not mentioned about Fears is he's from Chicago.... Most Chi players don't initially have good jump shots because it's the Windy City and the air takes your shot and trashes it.... So those players tend to develop jumpers later on, but usually have very good at the rim ability, which Fears has.... He has a wonderful array of moves once he gets to the rim.....

LMAO

[payitforward]

I have to agree -- tho, when you look at Wolf's numbers at Yale (i.e. vs. a weaker schedule), they are essentially no different from his UM numbers.

I see Lendeborg as a Forward prospect, btw, rather than a Center. If I had to put $$ on success, I'd put it on Lendeborg over Wolf. Be interesting to see how it works out (&, as usual, I hope both of them are terrific!).

I just watched a scouting report on him and learned that he missed his entire sophomore and junior seasons in high school because he was academically ineligible. I would have to know more about his AAU background, but it might get real interesting if it turns out that he has substantially less experience in organized basketball than his peers. It might suggest more-than-expected improvement going forward for a guy who is already 22.

Thing is... I can't bring to mind a single case of a guy who put up numbers like Lendeborg's but didn't go on to do very well in the league. Now, obviously, I don't have the means or time to do a truly exhaustive search, but still....