Official NBA General Discussion 2024-25 V2.0

[Basketball_Jones]

Norm for GTJ was the beginning of the end IMO. Norm this season was getting All Star talks as he was keeping LAC afloat along Harden/Zubac. If you look at his numbers thought it is around what he was doing for us in Tampa. Meanwhile, GTJ signed for the minimum with MIL and is a complete scrub.

We traded a borderline all star for a guy who turned out to be Vet min caliber. Jumping in the lottery and grabbing Barnes forced the FO's hand afterwards but I am pretty confident now we overeacted in 2021 IMO. Its not a coincidence our old core are all key players on good teams now.

Now we have to delude ourselves into thinking IQ/RJ/Ingram are gonna do anything next to Scottie.

You do the GTJ/Norm trade every time but it worked out about as badly as it could.

GTJ didn’t develop at all, and Norm managed to add to his game late in his career.

Just an all around everything bad that could happen happeneed type deal

No idea why people keep pushing the you do the norm trade every time. Wasn’t even equal talent value at the time and again gtjs potential was always gonna be limited.

If anyone should’ve been traded at peak value it should’ve been fvv.

Fred should have definitely been traded because the idea was to bring him back on a similar value contract he already had before and hope another team doesn’t offer more. Horrible strategy. You either think he’s worth what he’s asking or don’t and move him. Kicking the can down the road was risky. Obviously we’re better with him but ultimately we couldn’t keep him and got nothing.

[Mattatron]

OG and Bridges and Kat got them past the Celtics so in a way mission accomplished there. But they completely overlooked the Pacers and how to match up with them at all.

Thibs is a pretty bad coach. KAT must be the worst defender of any big man in the league. Hart is a liability in halfcourt offense and not that good on D, just a hustle guy. Frustrating team to follow all year, it's a roller coaster of ups and downs

Hart looked really good last year in the playoffs. But now I can see why he’s bounced around the league.

Last year, the Knicks just played way over their heads. The shooting was never going to be sustainable.

Hart is not the typical journeyman, even with his 4th team in 8 years, hes not a Delon or Schroder, these guys getting passed around like the kardashians/jenners. Hart is a prettz good hustleman, portland was just not at a competitive level, so having hart was nonsens. and he had to leave LA because of lebron wanting to play with AD. So No, Hart is not getting bounced around the league.

and tbh he's one of the best during this postseason run for the knicks, his eff, shooting and all the analytics prove that, offrtg/defrtg he's doing really good. rebounding is superb for a guy like him

[Boogie!]

You do the GTJ/Norm trade every time but it worked out about as badly as it could.

GTJ didn’t develop at all, and Norm managed to add to his game late in his career.

Just an all around everything bad that could happen happeneed type deal

No idea why people keep pushing the you do the norm trade every time. Wasn’t even equal talent value at the time and again gtjs potential was always gonna be limited.

If anyone should’ve been traded at peak value it should’ve been fvv.

Fred should have definitely been traded because the idea was to bring him back on a similar value contract he already had before and hope another team doesn’t offer more. Horrible strategy. You either think he’s worth what he’s asking or don’t and move him. Kicking the can down the road was risky. Obviously we’re better with him but ultimately we couldn’t keep him and got nothing.

That wasn’t my logic for trading him. It’s that the potential for building around him was always limited and if he really had all that reputation around the league, wouldn’t he be worth a good haul? What could we have gotten for him after his all star season?

[mdenny]

No idea why people keep pushing the you do the norm trade every time. Wasn’t even equal talent value at the time and again gtjs potential was always gonna be limited.

If anyone should’ve been traded at peak value it should’ve been fvv.

Fred should have definitely been traded because the idea was to bring him back on a similar value contract he already had before and hope another team doesn’t offer more. Horrible strategy. You either think he’s worth what he’s asking or don’t and move him. Kicking the can down the road was risky. Obviously we’re better with him but ultimately we couldn’t keep him and got nothing.

That wasn’t my logic for trading him. It’s that the potential for building around him was always limited and if he really had all that reputation around the league, wouldn’t he be worth a good haul? What could we have gotten for him after his all star season?

By all metrics and records while he didn't play.....the Raptors were BRUTAL without Fred and it was the first season without him that we regressed to a sub 500 team.

I still remember the "addition by subtraction" rhetoric when he signed with Houston. That died a quick death lol. The entire team fell apart at the seams starting from when he was gone.

The team was still a 500+ team after the norm trade. Amd they got a significant boost when they added poetl. After Fred left...they dropped below 500 status permanently.

The whole thing was over when you took Fred out of the equation. You could tell Pascal knew it was over when Fred left too.

The real core of brotherhood was fred/pascal/norm and they had been seperated from poetl. Trent wasn't welcomed with open arms by anyone on the Raptors. It's too bad that poetl was added back to the team AFTER the norm trade.

[NinjaBro]

Are Pacers really gonna win the ship?

Hope so, they're my sister team. Let's go Pascal!!!

[YogurtProducer]

Norm for GTJ was the beginning of the end IMO. Norm this season was getting All Star talks as he was keeping LAC afloat along Harden/Zubac. If you look at his numbers thought it is around what he was doing for us in Tampa. Meanwhile, GTJ signed for the minimum with MIL and is a complete scrub.

We traded a borderline all star for a guy who turned out to be Vet min caliber. Jumping in the lottery and grabbing Barnes forced the FO's hand afterwards but I am pretty confident now we overeacted in 2021 IMO. Its not a coincidence our old core are all key players on good teams now.

Now we have to delude ourselves into thinking IQ/RJ/Ingram are gonna do anything next to Scottie.

You do the GTJ/Norm trade every time but it worked out about as badly as it could.

GTJ didn’t develop at all, and Norm managed to add to his game late in his career.

Just an all around everything bad that could happen happeneed type deal

No idea why people keep pushing the you do the norm trade every time. Wasn’t even equal talent value at the time and again gtjs potential was always gonna be limited.

If anyone should’ve been traded at peak value it should’ve been fvv.

Because if you can get a similar player who is the same cost and 5-6 years younger it’s a no brainer. It wasn’t equal talent, but you’re betting on a younger guy figuring it out.

Norman was salary dumped by Portland like a year later, which shows how his value league wide was.

He ended up having a career year at age 31. That’s such an outlier of how a guy like Norm usually pans out that it’s hard to really even suggest we “should have” seen something like that coming. GTJ on the other hand ended up damn near regressing and didn’t develop an ounce. He’s literally the other end of the outliers.

For reference, GTJ is younger today than Powell was when we traded him.

[Boogie!]

Fred should have definitely been traded because the idea was to bring him back on a similar value contract he already had before and hope another team doesn’t offer more. Horrible strategy. You either think he’s worth what he’s asking or don’t and move him. Kicking the can down the road was risky. Obviously we’re better with him but ultimately we couldn’t keep him and got nothing.

That wasn’t my logic for trading him. It’s that the potential for building around him was always limited and if he really had all that reputation around the league, wouldn’t he be worth a good haul? What could we have gotten for him after his all star season?

By all metrics and records while he didn't play.....the Raptors were BRUTAL without Fred and it was the first season without him that we regressed to a sub 500 team.

I still remember the "addition by subtraction" rhetoric when he signed with Houston. That died a quick death lol. The entire team fell apart at the seams starting from when he was gone.

The team was still a 500+ team after the norm trade. Amd they got a significant boost when they added poetl. After Fred left...they dropped below 500 status permanently.

The whole thing was over when you took Fred out of the equation. You could tell Pascal knew it was over when Fred left too.

The real core of brotherhood was fred/pascal/norm and they had been seperated from poetl. Trent wasn't welcomed with open arms by anyone on the Raptors. It's too bad that poetl was added back to the team AFTER the norm trade.

It doesn’t change the fact to me that any team Fred was heading to as the starting pg was going to have its potential capped. The Trent fiasco had less to do with chemistry and more so his limited skill set imo. That being said, as I initially stated because of how highly you speak of Fred and all this talk about how he makes teams better, when we talk about rebuilding or retooling, trading him at his prime should’ve netted some pieces which could’ve made us deeper and a more well rounded team.

[WaltFrazier]

Not NBA but I turn on tsn3 and a CEBL game is on, Ottawa at Montreal. Why are the refs wearing their black warmup jackets I wonder. Then the camera pans up and shows a sunny sky.

Outdoor game at Jarry Stadium, the tennis stadium. Chuck Swirsky says it's a nice night, a bit cool I guess. Amy Audibert is the analyst.

Montreal has a big 6'10 guy from Halifax, played at Wilfred Laurier, having a big game so far

[WaltFrazier]

They call every light bump on the Knicks and let Indy maul Brunson and Towns

[bballsparkin]

Indiana did a great rebuild in such a short time. Fun team. I especially like watching TJ McConnel. You add a guy to that Raptors team with OG, Pascal and Fred it would have been a lot more fun to watch.

[bballsparkin]

They call every light bump on the Knicks and let Indy maul Brunson and Towns

You sure about that? Indianapolis over NYC? Pacers over Knicks?

[Boogie!]

You do the GTJ/Norm trade every time but it worked out about as badly as it could.

GTJ didn’t develop at all, and Norm managed to add to his game late in his career.

Just an all around everything bad that could happen happeneed type deal

No idea why people keep pushing the you do the norm trade every time. Wasn’t even equal talent value at the time and again gtjs potential was always gonna be limited.

If anyone should’ve been traded at peak value it should’ve been fvv.

Because if you can get a similar player who is the same cost and 5-6 years younger it’s a no brainer. It wasn’t equal talent, but you’re betting on a younger guy figuring it out.

Norman was salary dumped by Portland like a year later, which shows how his value league wide was.

He ended up having a career year at age 31. That’s such an outlier of how a guy like Norm usually pans out that it’s hard to really even suggest we “should have” seen something like that coming. GTJ on the other hand ended up damn near regressing and didn’t develop an ounce. He’s literally the other end of the outliers.

For reference, GTJ is younger today than Powell was when we traded him.

and again, he'll never be as good as powell is ever in his career. which is why I keep saying how age doesn't mean ****. this is why I don't give a damn how old gradey dick is when we're talking about projections. and like i said again, just because you can't foreshadow a player's potential based on his skills, doesn't mean you can use that as an argument that everyone would've made that same trade. i said years before norman blew up that if they had invested in him the way they invested in derozan, he could've been an all-star early in his career.

this argument about salary dumping again means nothing... the pelicans just salary dumped ingram on us for bruce brown... does that mean bruce brown is as good as brandon ingram? it was a horrible trade then for numerous reasons and in retrospect it's even worse. Hopefully some of these guys pan out because if not we're in for another tough stretch of **** basketball... the leafs are a flop, the jays look like they need to blow it up, toronto sports is looking meh right now.

[bballsparkin]

bad pass by McConnell

edit: but then makes up for it immediately.

[ItsDanger]

Read on Twitter

Yes, efficiency matters.

[bballsparkin]

GSW's really should have traded for Pascal. Big miss there.

[WaltFrazier]

They call every light bump on the Knicks and let Indy maul Brunson and Towns

You sure about that? Indianapolis over NYC? Pacers over Knicks?

Just have to watch to see.

[bballsparkin]

and again, he'll never be as good as powell is ever in his career. which is why I keep saying how age doesn't mean ****. this is why I don't give a damn how old gradey dick is when we're talking about projections. and like i said again, just because you can't foreshadow a player's potential based on his skills, doesn't mean you can use that as an argument that everyone would've made that same trade. i said years before norman blew up that if they had invested in him the way they invested in derozan, he could've been an all-star early in his career.

this argument about salary dumping again means nothing... the pelicans just salary dumped ingram on us for bruce brown... does that mean bruce brown is as good as brandon ingram? it was a horrible trade then for numerous reasons and in retrospect it's even worse. Hopefully some of these guys pan out because if not we're in for another tough stretch of **** basketball... the leafs are a flop, the jays look like they need to blow it up, toronto sports is looking meh right now.

If Gary Trent Jr had Gradey's skills and put in the work while on court Gradey does the trade would have been a home run. Gradey needs to get stronger so he doesn't get ragged dolled around. Can he? IDK.

[bballsparkin]

Just have to watch to see.

ok i'm watching. soft call on Turner. pacers -1.

[sidsid]

You can see how the game now is straight weakness hunting after a few games of loose ball. Thibs has tried to keep the KAT minutes away from Haliburton, but it doesn't matter. Almost very trip down the floor is a KAT PNR. TJ just taking 10 foot open jumpers on every trip. If KAT doesn't score on every trip, it's a negative.

[Basketball_Jones]

GSW's really should have traded for Pascal. Big miss there.

He’s certainly better than Butler these days, and healthier.